Would you date or marry a separated or divorced person?
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I think there's the spirit of the law, which Jesus' teaching highlights, and the letter of the lay, or legalistic view. On the letter of law, I would assume you believe (as Mat 19:9 reads, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery") that if divorce occurs due to infidelity (sexual immorality) then there is no adultery from that husband and wife remarrying, right?
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@presidente
On the letter of law, I would assume you believe (as Mat 19:9 reads, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery") that if divorce occurs due to infidelity (sexual immorality) then there is no adultery from that husband and wife remarrying, right?
On the letter of law, I would assume you believe (as Mat 19:9 reads, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery") that if divorce occurs due to infidelity (sexual immorality) then there is no adultery from that husband and wife remarrying, right?
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I don't think I would agree with your concept of letter of the law versus spirit of the law. Maybe in the California legal system, 'spirit of the law' is intended to mean the general intention of the law when not applied to rigorously word for word. There is also the idea of Ambrose and Augustine that 'spirit of the law' is allegorical and 'letter of the law' is literal.
I see Paul in II Corinthians as speaking of the Spirit contrasted with the letter of the law... but not 'spirit of the law' in the passage from which the terminology is taken. The letter of the law exposes sin. The Spirit gives life. After the law was given, 3000 were slain for not obeying it. On the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out, 3,000 were given new life through the Gospel.
As far as legal commentary on the Torah goes there in Matthew 19, an underlying understanding Pharisees and probably most other Bible interpreters would have had was that for a divorce to be legal, the man had to give the wife the certificate of divorce and not the other way around. Women could not legally divorce men.
Now, I recall reading in Josephus that Herodius had gotten chief priests to give her a letter of divorce. I suspect other Jewish leaders would have considered that illegitimate since the law of Moses does not allow for it. According to Josephus, her daughter Salome gave her husband a letter of divorce. I am not sure if that happened by the time of the crucifixion. Probably not since I have read it set at 34 AD. But with Herodius, the idea of a woman trying to divorce a man could have had a recent example in the popular consciousness with Jesus forbade a wife from putting away her husband.
I see Paul in II Corinthians as speaking of the Spirit contrasted with the letter of the law... but not 'spirit of the law' in the passage from which the terminology is taken. The letter of the law exposes sin. The Spirit gives life. After the law was given, 3000 were slain for not obeying it. On the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out, 3,000 were given new life through the Gospel.
As far as legal commentary on the Torah goes there in Matthew 19, an underlying understanding Pharisees and probably most other Bible interpreters would have had was that for a divorce to be legal, the man had to give the wife the certificate of divorce and not the other way around. Women could not legally divorce men.
Now, I recall reading in Josephus that Herodius had gotten chief priests to give her a letter of divorce. I suspect other Jewish leaders would have considered that illegitimate since the law of Moses does not allow for it. According to Josephus, her daughter Salome gave her husband a letter of divorce. I am not sure if that happened by the time of the crucifixion. Probably not since I have read it set at 34 AD. But with Herodius, the idea of a woman trying to divorce a man could have had a recent example in the popular consciousness with Jesus forbade a wife from putting away her husband.
Thanks for replying. As far as I can tell, you didn't answer the question. Let me rephrase it.
Mat 19:9 reads, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." I would assume you believe that if divorce occurs due to infidelity (sexual immorality) then there is no adultery/sin if either that husband or wife remarry (someone else), right? That is to say, it's ok for either of them to remarry someone else.
Mat 19:9 reads, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." I would assume you believe that if divorce occurs due to infidelity (sexual immorality) then there is no adultery/sin if either that husband or wife remarry (someone else), right? That is to say, it's ok for either of them to remarry someone else.
I'm not totally convinced on interpretations of this. The idea of a _man_ remarrying if his wife commits adultery seems to be a reasonable interpretation of the passage, though another approach to the passage is that it is saying, 'setting aside the issue of fornication' as if it is not being discussed. I've read that as a possible interpretation of the Greek, but with the level of Greek I know, I am not asware of that useage, and I read that before I started really studying Greek.
I also don't see anywhere in the Bible where women are allowed to issue a divorce against men at all. God at least tolerated and regulated polygamy in the Old Testament, polygyny, though, but definitely not polyandry. So there is a reason not to treat the sexes the same way based on the Old Testament when it comes to their roles in marriage. The Old Testament did not provide for women to issue divorce certificates against men, and Christ's teachings in Matthew 19 and elsewhere are more restrictive, not more libertine on this issue.
I also don't see anywhere in the Bible where women are allowed to issue a divorce against men at all. God at least tolerated and regulated polygamy in the Old Testament, polygyny, though, but definitely not polyandry. So there is a reason not to treat the sexes the same way based on the Old Testament when it comes to their roles in marriage. The Old Testament did not provide for women to issue divorce certificates against men, and Christ's teachings in Matthew 19 and elsewhere are more restrictive, not more libertine on this issue.
This was intended to be the focus of the discussion:
Mark 10:11-12
11 And he said unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, commits adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she commits adultery.
(KJ2000B)
Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her who is put away does commit adultery.
(KJ2000B)
I Corinthians 7
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
(KJ2000B)
Mark 10:11-12
11 And he said unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, commits adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she commits adultery.
(KJ2000B)
Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her who is put away does commit adultery.
(KJ2000B)
I Corinthians 7
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
(KJ2000B)
That's a good question.
If it were me, especially if there were no adultery involved, I think, to keep a clean conscience, I'd stay divorced and wait it out for reconciliation. The 'burning' part would be tough.
But moreso when I was younger. The 'burning' issue isn't the number one issue. Let's say a man were on a work assignment for six months and he and his wife were both 'burning' -- wither that is more of a physical thing or a longing for affection or whatever-- it doesn't make marrying someone else okay.
Some divorce and remarriage situations are debatable by Christians. Some have no justification at all. No one cheats, the wife gets board, and she gives him a unilateral divorce he doesn't agree to. Even with the Hillel Pharisee interpretation of the Old Testament, which is more liberal on divorce, that isn't a legitimate divorce because she divorced him.
Is there any reason to view such a divorce as legitimate before God? What God put together, let not man put asunder. Does a divorce paper like this have any more weight before God than a marriage license for two men getting 'married'?
I know someone who went through this in his retirement years, just recently. He doesn't know if his wife is born again, though she goes to church. She does not seem pleased with his being active in ministry. She kept talking about wanting to get divorced and eventually divorced him. He is believing God for a reconciliation. I think he plans to just stay celibate until his wife reconciles.
If it were me, especially if there were no adultery involved, I think, to keep a clean conscience, I'd stay divorced and wait it out for reconciliation. The 'burning' part would be tough.
But moreso when I was younger. The 'burning' issue isn't the number one issue. Let's say a man were on a work assignment for six months and he and his wife were both 'burning' -- wither that is more of a physical thing or a longing for affection or whatever-- it doesn't make marrying someone else okay. Some divorce and remarriage situations are debatable by Christians. Some have no justification at all. No one cheats, the wife gets board, and she gives him a unilateral divorce he doesn't agree to. Even with the Hillel Pharisee interpretation of the Old Testament, which is more liberal on divorce, that isn't a legitimate divorce because she divorced him.
Is there any reason to view such a divorce as legitimate before God? What God put together, let not man put asunder. Does a divorce paper like this have any more weight before God than a marriage license for two men getting 'married'?
I know someone who went through this in his retirement years, just recently. He doesn't know if his wife is born again, though she goes to church. She does not seem pleased with his being active in ministry. She kept talking about wanting to get divorced and eventually divorced him. He is believing God for a reconciliation. I think he plans to just stay celibate until his wife reconciles.
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