Does getting the "Trib" correct help?

[Pilgrimshope]

Are there any practical advantages to correctly understanding the "pre- mid- post" theories on the rapture?
I have never understood the need to expend such energy on something that we cannot control?

what’s interesting is how clearly the Bible makes things and yet we still have such radically different views of those same subjects.

i think what happens regarding just a subject like “ the rapture “ which actually the word doesn’t appear in scripture but the subject of this day when Jesus returns and fathers all his people for instance paul is talking about it here

“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or here

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again Paul is speaking about the last trumpet the last day the resurrection of the dead and the instant change from flesh and blood to spirit of those still alive tbat day when Jesus returns from heaven …

my point is it’s never taught differently by anyone in scripture it’s all based on what the lord said about it

at the end of the world Jesus will return from heaven like he entered it after his resurrection . When this happens the dead will be raised , those alive will be changed and the world will face the judgement seat of Christ Jesus. That raising of the dead Paul’s talking about when Jesus returns

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:25-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The dead shall be raised when the lord returns from heaven . My point is probably everything the lord had to say is important but unlitmately once we put Jesus and his doctrine first we find the rest of scripture is witnessing that it’s all the truth there’s only one doctrine even though there were several men writing letters about the gospel

jesus explained he would return from heaven on day and gather his elect who were alive that day and raise the dead and judge the earth that day is coming but he giving mankind time to repent

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a lot of people read Paul’s letters and find sentences and the. They get all distorted and lead the selves and others astray like peters explaining there I think it’s probably important for us to believe the doctrine of the lord it’s all going to happen

 

[ewq1938]

1. Obviously, it's only said about 1/7 of the churches so that isn't a pre-trib rapture of the whole church.


2, The fact that tribulation is mentioned for one of the other churches further disproves any idea that the church won't face tribulation. The truth is that neither is talking about the rapture or the great tribulation.

I have NO idea what your point is in #1.
1/7 of the churches? What are you talking about?

You can't take one thing said to one church and apply it to the whole church. That's a contextual fallacy. It gets worse when people promoting Pretrib do not listen to another letter to a different church promises tribulation. Obviously the idea of being taken away before the trib starts is not scriptural.

 

[ewq1938]

i think what happens regarding just a subject like “ the rapture “ which actually the word doesn’t appear in scripture

The word does appear in scripture, the Greek word for rapture. No English word appears in scripture but Greek certainly does.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You can't take one thing said to one church and apply it to the whole church. That's a contextual fallacy. It gets worse when people promoting Pretrib do not listen to another letter to a different church promises tribulation. Obviously the idea of being taken away before the trib starts is not scriptural.

“You can't take one thing said to one church and apply it to the whole church. “

i can’t do anything actually but believe the gospel Jesus the lord sent out from Jerusalem like any creature

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.


So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The fallacy is actually to create different churches and different doctrines of “ Paul and appolos and Peter and John “ they are his witnesses who preached the same gospel to all people the “ church “ is the body of Christ those who receive his spirit in other words from pentocost to the last day on earth for mankind.


“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to take sentences out of bc text from Paul’s letters and try to erase the fospem that actually saves people then now and forever is a fallacy and will always be no matter what doctrine tries to replace the one the lord spoke and promised is fallacy his doctrine is of God and is truth paul Peter John ….all knew it and witnessed it to everyone else ….

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats “the church “

theres no salvation on earth without the salvation Jesus offers in his words ofnthe everlasting gospel people all have the same doctrine the same lord and all believers great and small are the church everyone who has ever been filled with the Holy Ghost since pentocost is the church . Jews ? Gentiles ? Any believer of the everlasting gospel is part of the same kingdom of God and have believed the truth that saves souls

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There is exactly one way of salvstion anyone can be saved they just have to accept and believe the truth God spoke and sent to all nations that promises salvstion ….to create alternate routes to God no matter the path is fallacy because he is himself the truth and there is no other way to belong to Christ but by his faith spoken into all the world until the end of time itself when he returns to fether his people as he , Paul , John and Peter , all wrote clearly but everyone doesn’t believe they figure out the other path …..

the truth is there’s just one God one word one doctrine but the world doesn’t accept it only believers

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The acceptance and rejection of his word is where the rubber meets the road with Christ

acceptance

rejection and denial

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

His words are forever

“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the same …..one

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But I guess there are all these other “ truths “ and ways out there too always comes down to choices really on what to believe and who to believe Jesus ? Who can give us everlasting life or the other words that won’t agree with him ? I have to let Jesus drive my boat and tell others to do the same but everyone has tbier souls in thier own hands until we give it to someone Jesus is the right one I believe for any and all …:…we have to hear accept and believe the gospel and even the parts that tell us to stop sinning and start living people the right way we have to believe that …..

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The word does appear in scripture, the Greek word for rapture. No English word appears in scripture but Greek certainly does.

…..yeah

scholars read things like this friend

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this became the reference “ the rapture “ because they were all suffering through many tribulations and it was a promise of a coming “moment of rapture “ glory and peace comfort to them in thier trials and tribulations under the Roman empires persecutions and imprisonments of the church which actually was spurred by Paul before his conversion to the church which he became a very important member and chosen and appointed wotness , servant and apostle of Jesus Christ our lord

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1-6‬ ‭

Paul’s talking about the gospel what’s wotnessed in Matthew

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Mark

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Luke ( one of Paul’s ministry companions )

“Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,( Jesus life ministry death and resurrection ) even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭

And John

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The account of Jesus our lords life in the flesh , a witness of his his eternal divinity from before creation to after being made like us for a time and clothing himself with humanity in order to save us from death ….Paul was a believer of everything in the gospel and a witness and revelator of so. Much that agrees with and explains it better . He’s not oreschong anything different there’s only one doctrine for the one church who are the one body of Jesus Christ in earth yesterday today and forever

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Are there any practical advantages to correctly understanding the "pre- mid- post" theories on the rapture?
I have never understood the need to expend such energy on something that we cannot control?

I lean toward the "a-mil" interpretation of Scripture, but I also subscribe to pan-millennialism. It'll all PAN out. We'll all find out eventually and won't be proud that we were right.

 

[GaryA]

oreschong

I believe that is the most unusual spelling for the word 'preaching' that I have ever seen...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I believe that is the most unusual spelling for the word 'preaching' that I have ever seen...

Ha ha
wait till I get goin

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Are there any practical advantages to correctly understanding the "pre- mid- post" theories on the rapture?
I have never understood the need to expend such energy on something that we cannot control?

It's how "eschatalogical theologians" earn their keep - generating all sorts of creative theories about what'll happen as we roll on toward the end of the age.

As a Matter of FACT, NOBODY will REALLY UNDERSTAND the events at the end of the age, until they go through 'em. Until then, all we've got is 1000 "OPINIONS", and no real evidence.

 

[Lamar]

It's how "eschatalogical theologians" earn their keep - generating all sorts of creative theories about what'll happen as we roll on toward the end of the age.

As a Matter of FACT, NOBODY will REALLY UNDERSTAND the events at the end of the age, until they go through 'em. Until then, all we've got is 1000 "OPINIONS", and no real evidence.

This one goes in my files, it is a great answer.

 

[JTB]

Are there any practical advantages to correctly understanding the "pre- mid- post" theories on the rapture?
I have never understood the need to expend such energy on something that we cannot control?

Yes, absolutely.

Jesus said that in the end many will turn from Him because they were not prepared for what was coming upon them.

How you view the timing of the 'rapture' will influence how you prepare.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, absolutely.

Jesus said that in the end many will turn from Him because they were not prepared for what was coming upon them.

How you view the timing of the 'rapture' will influence how you prepare.

And Pretrib does no preparing like the foolish virgins because they have nothing to prepare for in their minds.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Are there any practical advantages to correctly understanding the "pre- mid- post" theories on the rapture?
I have never understood the need to expend such energy on something that we cannot control?

yes, because Tribulation is an Event and period of Time. We are not afraid of Tribulation, most of our entire Walk in God has been overcoming one tribulation after another. We are more concerned about WRATH.

and knowing that the Antichrist:

1. set's up 1 week Covenant with Jews
2. that allows Jews to build their Temple
3. that allows Jews to Worship the TRUE Most High God
^
so here, we see, the First Part of Tribulation for 3 1/2 years is NO WRATH, the Antichrist, is letting People worship the True Most High God.



but at the 3 1/2 year point [Day 1290] :

1. Antichrist Stops the Jews from Worshiping the Most High God
2. Antichrist claims he is God
3. Antichrist makes WAR with Jews
^
Clearly, WRATH, is now on the scene.



so, the real question is, since Jesus and Paul said [[we are Gathered BEFORE ""Wrath""]], why do we think we will be Rapture'd pre-Trib, when for the first 3 1/2 years we are FREE to Worship the Most High God? we are not in any danger until WRATH, which doesn't happen until after 2nd half of Tribulation. So, why do we need to be removed when there is NO WRATH?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I'm in Tribulation as I type.
i have gotten used to Tribulation.
not sure why it scares people who claim to be full of the MOST HIGH GOD!
but all i read is oh i wish Jesus would come back soon.
Yeah, so do i!
but you know what else is cool?

when I read the Bible, i used to think how wonderful it would have been someone in the Bible.
Guess what, we are someone in the Bible, we are the End Time Peoples we [read] about.
how cool is that?
Personally, knowing we do not face Wrath until the 1290 Day mark, I want to see and experience being the End time People we read about.

I am going to Heaven no matter what.

who cares if i am shot, stabbed, throat slit, gut slit and bleed out, Rapture'd, whatever, I KNOW where I am going.

so, what is to fear?

 

[JTB]

I'm in Tribulation as I type.
i have gotten used to Tribulation.
not sure why it scares people who claim to be full of the MOST HIGH GOD!
but all i read is oh i wish Jesus would come back soon.
Yeah, so do i!
but you know what else is cool?

when I read the Bible, i used to think how wonderful it would have been someone in the Bible.
Guess what, we are someone in the Bible, we are the End Time Peoples we [read] about.
how cool is that?
Personally, knowing we do not face Wrath until the 1290 Day mark, I want to see and experience being the End time People we read about.

I am going to Heaven no matter what.

who cares if i am shot, stabbed, throat slit, gut slit and bleed out, Rapture'd, whatever, I KNOW where I am going.

so, what is to fear?

Unfortunately, far too few people have your faith and strength

 

[GaryA]

As a rule - I do not bother to "answer" any post in which the author "hides" their comment inside of another quote so that a simple 'REPLY' will not include it (as a quote) in the reply [edit] content. (for example - post #60)

Sometimes I will make an exception if I believe a particular point really needs to be made.

If you are not willing to give enough care to not destroy the quote bubble when you post -

If you are not willing to utilize the 'Preview' feature to make sure of how your post is going to appear before you post -

With regard to post #60 - @studentoftheword - there is much error in the content you added to the quote of my statement.

Question: Why were 'Church Age saints' not raptured before the horror of the Dark Ages started???

Why do some modern Christians think they are so special - compared to the 'Church Age saints' of the Dark Ages?

Why do some modern Christians refuse to see that the martyrs of the Dark Ages were just-as-much 'Church Age saints' as we are?

Why are some modern Christians "so sure" that they should not have to go through anything like the saints did in the Dark Ages?

To those modern Christians I ask - What makes you better than them?

Does God love you more? { No. }

What makes you think that God would allow them to go through such horror - but not allow you to experience anything even remotely similar...???

Why do you not understand that there have been 'Church Age saints' around - going through 'great tribulation' - for the past ~2000 years?

Why do you 'separate' yourself from any-or-all of the saints of history as if you were any different?

It is incredibly sad that so many modern Christians are so-full-of-themselves...

 

[studentoftheword]

Why do you not understand that there have been 'Church Age saints' around - going through 'great tribulation' - for the past ~2000 years?

I agree with your statement here ---but here is the thing ----God is with the Saints and always gives them a way out of their Tribulation ------and never gives them more than they can handle -------and that is scriptural

The past Saints have never been though or experienced what God is about to unleash on this earth in the future Tribulation-----

So this tribulation GaryA ------that will end the world as we know it ------the Revelation Tribulation is for unbelievers GaryA not Saints and that is my belief =====The tribulation in Revelation is God;s attempt to save as many people as He can ---God wants all people saved --and that is Scriptural ---but not all people want to be saved ------there will be many unbelievers saved during the 7 year tribulation and then there will be many unbelievers who will not accept Salvation and that is on them to choose their own fate ------which when judged will be Hell ---

So all your snide remarks about Christians who think they know it all won't change the scripture or the 7 Year tribulation ---

Here is the thing GaryA ---call me whatever you want to -----you can't hurt me emotionally with snide remarks ---I am way past that -----so I say to you -----As A Christian who is suppose to Agape ----their neighbour ----I say to you

No matter what verbal abuse you can spout out at me ------

 

[JTB]

God is with the Saints and always gives them a way out of their Tribulation

I would say God is with the Saints and always gives them a way THROUGH their Tribulation

 

[studentoftheword]

I would say God is with the Saints and always gives them a way THROUGH their Tribulation

Totally agree with this correction ---Thanks

 

[GaryA]

I agree with your statement here ---but here is the thing ----God is with the Saints and always gives them a way out of their Tribulation ------and never gives them more than they can handle -------and that is scriptural

In addition to the correction already made - what is scriptural about the 'never gives them more than they can handle' statement is that it is talking about 'temptation' and not 'tribulation':

1 Corinthians 10:

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

If this is not the scripture you are thinking of and referring to, please post the scripture you are thinking of and referring to. (that deals with 'tribulation')

The past Saints have never been though or experienced what God is about to unleash on this earth in the future Tribulation-----

I believe you are confused about what God does-and-does-not 'unleash' on the earth.

The 'Seal' related 'tribulation' is 'unleashed' by man. It is past/present/future - over a span of ~2000 years.

The 'Trumpet' related 'tribulation' is 'unleashed' by the Two Witnesses. It is future - after the 'great tribulation' that Jesus spoke of.

The 'Vials' related 'tribulation' - which is the 'Wrath of God' - is 'unleashed' by God. It is future - at the Second Coming of Christ.

So this tribulation GaryA ------that will end the world as we know it ------the Revelation Tribulation is for unbelievers GaryA not Saints and that is my belief =====The tribulation in Revelation is God;s attempt to save as many people as He can ---God wants all people saved --and that is Scriptural ---but not all people want to be saved ------there will be many unbelievers saved during the 7 year tribulation and then there will be many unbelievers who will not accept Salvation and that is on them to choose their own fate ------which when judged will be Hell ---

Believe what you will - but - "I am telling you" - that you have some things "mixed up"...

There is no 7-year 'prophetic' End Times period.

So all your snide remarks about Christians who think they know it all won't change the scripture or the 7 Year tribulation ---

Here is the thing GaryA ---call me whatever you want to -----you can't hurt me emotionally with snide remarks ---I am way past that -----so I say to you -----As A Christian who is suppose to Agape ----their neighbour ----I say to you

No matter what verbal abuse you can spout out at me ------

'snide' ?

My 'remarks' are not intended to be 'snide'. Nor are they intended to be mean. They are not intended to cause anger or tears.

It is not my intent to hurt anyone in any way. And, I have nothing against you.

Believe-it-or-not - my intent is to [ultimately] edify. I say the things I do because I care about my brothers and sisters in Christ. And, I hate to see them follow after the extreme error concerning the scriptures that has been introduced into the world. My 'correction' is based on - and, driven by - love and not hate.

Whether you realize it or not - I am trying to help you.

You can say "no thanks" - and, that is okay. Ignore me if you wish. But, I am not trying to "twist anyone's arm" - I am only sharing what I have learned. It is up to others to "look into it a bit deeper" if they wish. I believe it would be beneficial to do so.