The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

brightfame52 · Sep 16, 2023

... the word "shall" does not appear in the text, brightfame52.

I have explained Romans 1:16-17 to you many times

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein [the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe ... the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith.

From faith to faith – not from works to faith or from faith to works ... from faith to faith. The life of the born again one begins in faith and the born again one is to continue to live by faith alone.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

It is the denial of the greatness of the death of the Lord Jesus Christ to say that He did not die for every single person … all the iniquity of every body was laid on Him. It is finished. It was done, once and for all … doesn’t mean all are believers. You have to believe it. So redemption certainly only applies to believers. But to say that Jesus did not die for the whole world is a denial of Who He is and what the Bible says. He tasted death for every one … no one was left out.

Romans 1:17 is not a lie ...

the word "shall" does not appear in the text in Romans 1:17 ...

The phrase the just shall live by faith occurs four times in Scripture and the word "shall" does not appear in the text in any of the four (Habakuk 2:4; Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; and Hebrews 10:36).

The whole premise of what you submitted in Post 1777 has been proven false and your erroneous dogma has again failed.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

More unbelief

reneweddaybyday · Sep 16, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... nope ... Post 1779 renders the whole of your Post 1777 as false from your very first point.

From your post:

"Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Thats predestination, whenever scripture declares that something SHALL be done, it means that the predetermined counsel of God has decided it to happen."

Since the word "SHALL" does not appear in the text in Romans 1:17, your claim is null and void.

The word "SHALL" does not appear in the text in the other three instances where the phrase the just shall live by faith appear in Scripture. All four places where that phrase is written do not include the word "shall".

The verse reads the just live by faith.

Scripture tells us:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth

Because you do not rightly divide the Word of Truth, you are a shameful workman.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

brightfame52 · Sep 18, 2023

Reconciliation to God experimentally also !

Not only did by Christ's Death alone, those He died for were reconciled to God[legally] even while they were being enemies [experimentally] so says Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

They also are reconciled to God experimentally by His same death, meaning reconciled out of being enemies to Him, So says this scripture Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

You see that ? Paul tells them HOW it was done ! How they were reconciled after having been alienated and enemies in their minds by wicked works, It was in the Body of His flesh through death, meaning through His Death for them, the results is reconciliation out of being enemies and alienated in our minds by wicked works !

So Christ's Death alone accomplished both Legal and Experimental Reconciliation for the People of God, whom Christ died for ! 37

brightfame52 · Sep 20, 2023

Redeemed unto Life !

Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

All for whom Christ died are redeemed from/out of the curse of the Law, from the penalty of the transgressed law, death being one of the consequences of that penalty, and so Christ has redeemed them He died for from the death that is a consequence of the Transgressed Law, and having done that, they must receive Life, and that comes from the Spirit, that He may give them Life, or as Jesus says He quickens Jn 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

That word quickeneth is the greek word zóopoieó:

I make that which was dead to live, cause to live, quicken.

/zōgréō, "alive" and 4160 /poiéō, "make") – properly, make alive (zōos); i.e. "quicken," vivify ("animate"); (figuratively) cause what is dead (inoperative) to have life; empower with divine life.

Notice, to cause that which is dead to have Life. The elect by nature are dead to God, inoperative spiritually, alienated from the life of God, but because Jesus died for them, redeeming them from death, which is a consequence of the curse of the Law, being that He satisfied God's Law and Justice by His Death for them, He causes them to have Life, as an evidence that Christ's redeeming death was successful in redeeming them from the curse of the Law !

In fact the same word zóopoieó in Jn 6:63 is used in 1 Cor 15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

He is the The Author of the quickening of the Spirit in Jn 6:63, the Spirit must through Christ give life to every soul that His death redeemed from the curse of the Law !

As the Elect received subjective death for the consequences of sin against the Law, they likewise receive subjective Life out of death. Thats why back to Gal 3:13-14 those who Christ redeemed from the curse of the law, it was for the purpose that they may receive the promise of the Spirit, which gives them Life Jn 6:63 ! You see Christ's redeeming Death would be for nought if it did not produce Life and bestow it upon the redeemed, if it did not do that, His Death was less effective than Adams death was that effected subjective death !

Webers.Home · Sep 21, 2023

.
● Rom 3:23 . . All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

In other words: God has made His own personal sinless perfection the
standard by which everyone is evaluated. Obviously then; no one among the
Jews or the Gentiles-- except for Christ --has ever, nor ever will, measure
up; not even the holiest people that one can imagine, e.g. Noah, Daniel, or
Job; and those were some very righteous guys. (Ezek 14:12-20)

The thing is: Christ's crucifixion and resurrection satisfies justice for people's
sins, and gives them a rating of innocence and exoneration that they could
never in a million years attain on their own. But if the plan of salvation were
to be wrapped at that point, they would still be short of the glory of God,
viz: the ultimate goal of salvation is God's own personal sinless perfection
which, again, is something that people could never in a million years attain
on their own.

Now with justice satisfied and out of the way by means of Christ's crucifixion
and resurrection; the supreme being is at liberty to become extremely
benevolent with a remarkable act of God that when fully completed will
equip folks with a personal sinless perfection comparable to His own.

● 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given us everything we need for life
and godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory
and goodness. Through these He has given us His very great and precious
promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and
escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. (cf. Ezek 36:24-27)
_

brightfame52 · Sep 21, 2023

@Webers.Home

When what is fully completed ? Didnt Christ fully complete everything needful to actually save His People from their sins and give them a full Salvation experience ?

Webers.Home · Sep 21, 2023

.

brightfame52 said:

One of God's ambitions is to get people out of their natural bodies and into
one that's better. People's natural bodies are vile (Phil 3:21) translated from
a Greek word that's somewhat ambiguous. It can mean inferior, and it can
mean humiliating.

Another of His ambitions is to bring the divine nature's recipients up to full
strength, i.e. maturation. (Gal 4:19 & 2Pet 1:3-4)

Beneficiaries of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection are a work in progress,
i.e. under construction, so to speak. (Phil 1:16)
_

brightfame52 · Sep 21, 2023

Webers.Home said:

Didnt Christ fully complete everything
needful to actually save His People from their sins and give them a full
Salvation experience ? Yes or No

brightfame52 · Sep 22, 2023

All men drawn by virtue of Christ's Death !

One of the accomplishments of the death of Christ that proves that all men without exception were not of His Sheep that He died for, is that, those Sheep of His that He did die for, are as a result of His death drawn to Him Jn 12:32-33

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

This blessed fact of what His Death would accomplish He signified here in Vs 33 !

Jesus declares that all men shall be drawn to Him by the power, efficacy virtue of His death alone !

Now many in false religion quote this verse Jn 12:32 yet at the same time they are quite ignorant to its blessed meaning, and while quoting it, most of the time they are denying its very Truth set forth, that being Christ promising that His death [being lifted up] will result in all being drawn to Himself, which means they drawn will become His faithful followers, even believers in Him.

Now the word draw here denotes Christ's power at work, its the word helkō and means:

I.to draw, drag off

II.metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

Those being drawed have a special inward power leading them, impelling them !

To impel means "to cause to move forward" and its also synonymous with compel as here Lk 14:23

And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

The word compel here anagkazō means:

I.to necessitate, compel, drive to, constrain

A.by force, threats, etc.

B.by permission, entreaties, etc.

C.by other means

The compelling here is by entreaties and persuasion, and the Holy Spirit is vital in this work of persuading with the preached word 2 Cor 5:20

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

The servant in Lk 14:23 is the Holy Spirit who accompanies the preached word, persuading those Christ died for to be drawn to Him in Faith !

Also the word draw denotes:

helkýō – properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.

For its the Day of Christ's Power Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Thats what Christ is speaking of in Jn 12:32 , that all His People He died for Matt 1:21 shall be attracted to Him in the Day of His Power !

John146 · Sep 22, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Jesus is the savior of all men, especially them that believe.

Webers.Home · Sep 22, 2023

.
FAQ: What does John 3:14-15 mean where it says: "Just as Moses lifted up
the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone
who believes in him may have eternal life."

REPLY: The incident to which Christ referred is located at Num 21:5-9.

Long story short: Moses' people became weary of living in the desert and
eating manna all the time at every meal. But instead of courteously, and
diplomatically, petitioning their divine benefactor for tastier food and better
accommodations, they became hostile and confrontational.

In response to their insolence; God sent a swarm of deadly poisonous
snakes among them; which began striking people; and every strike was
100% fatal, no exceptions. In no time at all, much people of Israel died.
Then those not yet dead got nervous and appealed to Moses for help. In
reply; Jehovah instructed Moses to construct a replica of the beasts and
hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying from snake bite
could look to it for an antidote.

Now the key issue here is that the replica, lifted up, was the only God-given
remedy for the people's fatal condition-- not purity, not sacrifices and
offerings, not tithing, not church attendance, not missionary work, not
sacraments, not holy days of obligation, not the Sabbath, not charity, not
good deeds, not good behavior, not piety, not scapulars, not Bible study and
Sunday school, not catechism or yeshiva, not rosaries, not the Wailing Wall,
not one's religion of choice, not self denial and/or self control, not the so
called golden rule, not vows of poverty and/or chastity, not the Ten
Commandments, not the Eucharist; no, none of that. The replica, lifted up,
was it; viz: it was all or nothing at all-- there were no exceptions and no
other options. Whoever failed to look to that replica ended up dead.

In other words then: Christ, lifted up on the cross to satisfy justice for the
sins of the world, is the only God-given escape from punishment in the lake
of fire depicted by Rev 20:11-15 wherein people will be executed by a mode
of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

FAQ: How does one go about availing themselves of Christ's crucifixion?

REPLY: The best way is to RSVP God and tell Him-- in your own words --that
you've thus far failed to satisfy His expectations, and you're pretty sure you
never will. Then simply tell Him you would like to take advantage of His
son's crucifixion to avoid the consequences.

They say silence is golden but in this case silence could be terminal; so get
this benefit locked in now, while it's on the table; and for God's sake don't
take it for granted that He'll come around every so often to remind you 'cause
He's not obligated to do that.
_

brightfame52 · Sep 22, 2023

John146 said:

Didnt Christ fully complete everything
needful to actually save His People from their sins and give them a full
Salvation experience ? Yes or No

John146 · Sep 22, 2023

brightfame52 said:

to those who would believe

brightfame52 · Sep 22, 2023

John146 said:

Didnt Christ fully complete everything
needful to actually save His People from their sins and give them a full
Salvation experience ? Yes or No

John146 · Sep 22, 2023

brightfame52 said:

His people? He is the Savior of all men, especially them that believe.

brightfame52 · Sep 22, 2023

John146 said:

Didnt Christ fully complete everything
needful to actually save His People from their sins and give them a full
Salvation experience ? Yes or No

John146 · Sep 22, 2023

brightfame52 said:

His people? the Jews? Yes
His people? the Gentiles? Yes

brightfame52 · Sep 22, 2023

John146 said:

Well that covers everyone.

John146 · Sep 22, 2023

brightfame52 said:

yep, his atonement was made for everyone, but only applied to those who believe

Magenta · Sep 22, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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