Is sin lawlessness or is sin the transgression of the law?

[Dino246]

There was the tabernacle, but some people think that since there is no temple obedience to tabernacle commands can and will be fulfilled by building another temple. But the people at the temple institute have idols, and Ezekiel's temple was never built. Was it a spiritual temple or a physical temple? Once the second temple was built, would it then never be built?

In the Law, the tabernacle (or temple) was a physical structure. There is no temple presently, and has not been since AD 70, so all people who claim to follow the Law are actually in violation of it because of their failure to follow the ordinances related to the tabernacle/temple.

Again, as Paul and James both wrote clearly, you either follow the ENTIRE Law or you are a transgressor of the Law.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

In the Law, the tabernacle (or temple) was a physical structure. There is no temple presently, and has not been since AD 70, so all people who claim to follow the Law are actually in violation of it because of their failure to follow the ordinances related to the tabernacle/temple.

Again, as Paul and James both wrote clearly, you either follow the ENTIRE Law or you are a transgressor of the Law.

Incorrect. Without a temple the only thing that needs to be done is to build another temple. If you follow that line of thinking. But, like I keep saying, there is a new covenant now.

If you break one commandment of the Law you have broken the Law.

 

[Dino246]

Incorrect. Without a temple the only thing that needs to be done is to build another temple.

And until they do, they are in violation of the Law. "The only thing..." sounds so simple, but somehow it has been left undone for almost 2,000 years.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

And until they do, they are in violation of the Law. "The only thing..." sounds so simple, but somehow it has been left undone for almost 2,000 years.

In the wilderness they had the tabernacle. It is not something that is undone if God doesn't want it to happen.

 

[Dino246]

In the wilderness they had the tabernacle. It is not something that is undone if God doesn't want it to happen.

You're completely sidestepping. You have claimed to be Torah-observant. You don't follow the Law regarding the temple, therefore You aren't Torah-observant.

End of story.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

You're completely sidestepping. You have claimed to be Torah-observant. You don't follow the Law regarding the temple, therefore You aren't Torah-observant.

End of story.

No. I have not claimed to be Torah Observant. I have said, I think, that I am not Torah Observant. I used to be. I don't know what Law regarding any temple you are speaking of. If there is a Law of God regarding a temple you should follow it. But, I don't know that there is.

 

[Dino246]

No. I have not claimed to be Torah Observant.

Your words in post #30 say otherwise...

I am a Gentile, so though I have been Torah Observant,

For the sake of your rapidly disappearing integrity, own your words.

 

[JacobMartinMertens]

Your words in post #30 say otherwise...



For the sake of your rapidly disappearing integrity, own your words.

Post 30 is interesting. I am sorry if you did not understand me. There was a time that I was Torah Observant, so I have been Torah Observant, but not any longer.

When you say own your words I don't know what it is that you want me to do.

 

[rogerg]

The Law is Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy or the Ten Commandments or all of the instruction given through Moses including the Ten Commandments and I think other things written. So yes, 613 commands, mitzvot, or commandments.

The church is not under the Law. We do not need to fulfill the Law. Jesus has done that for us. But is the Law an eternal standard or is it not? This is dangerous territory for me.

I am a Gentile, so though I have been Torah Observant, I no that I am not under the Law.

If I understand your question correctly (and I may not), it is not an external standard but a spiritual standard: anyone not brought under the auspices of the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, until and unless being placed under it, is committing sin - that law is the law transgressed and the only law upon by which salvation and judgment are assessed.
Were it to be otherwise, salvation would then be of ourselves and of our own works not of Christ's, but salvation is only through Christ and is of what He achieved, not of what we may attempt to achieve, because He alone is the Saviour.

[Rom 8:2,3 KJV]
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

[Jhn 16:8-9 KJV]
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

[Tit 3:5-6 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;