Works Complete Faith?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#201
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
#201
romans113336 said:
Ask Paul--he's the one who wrote:

Romans 14
23But the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
Click to expand...
I don't have to. I know from what I have shared, it can't be as you say. Otherwise, there would be unrighteousness with God. That's simply not possible.
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
#203
Sep 23, 2023
847
76
28
#203
Cameron143 said:
I don't have to. I know from what I have shared, it can't be as you say. Otherwise, there would be unrighteousness with God. That's simply not possible.
Click to expand...
So, despite the fact that your view cannot account for Romans 14:23, you continue to hold to it?

I'm not surprised. It's the norm.

I cannot live with such cognitive dissonance. God's grace won't let me.

Thanks for your interactions.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#204
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
#204
romans113336 said:
I never said a person wasn't justified upon hearing with faith--faith is accounted as righteousness, so there is a basis for God justifying--but, thereafter, the believer is to not merely hold faith, but also walk in faith, and that walking in faith, as seen in Ro 14:5,23, and Ja 2 (just two examples--there are more), determine ongoing justification.

The thing is that I recognize NOT ONLY justification by the righteousness of faith, but also "ongoing justification" (Ro 14:23; Ja 2), and "final justification" (eg, Ro 2:6-16) by the righteousness of faith completed by also walking in faith. I'm endeavoring to believe it ALL, not just a sliver of it.
Click to expand...
Your view: A believer is justified by his own faith.

Biblical view: A believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#205
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
#205
romans113336 said:
So, despite the fact that your view cannot account for Romans 14:23, you continue to hold to it?

I'm not surprised. It's the norm.

I cannot live with such cognitive dissonance. God's grace won't let me.
Click to expand...
I've reconciled the 2. You have God being unrighteous.
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
#206
Sep 23, 2023
847
76
28
#206
John146 said:
Your view: A believer is justified by his own faith.

Biblical view: A believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
You have misrepresented and misrepresented my view.

My view: faith is supplied by God's Spirit of Grace, and, accordingly, we are to keep God's command, which is twofold: to believe in the Name of God's Son AND love one another--have faith in God, and walk in that faith, and sin is constituted in not having faith in God's Son, and in not walking in faith which is powered by love (hence, if we walk in faith, we are loving our brothers, and we are fulfilling "the entire Law" (Ro 3:31, 8:4, 13:8-10; Gal 5:14)).
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
#207
Sep 23, 2023
847
76
28
#207
Cameron143 said:
I've reconciled the 2. You have God being unrighteous.
Click to expand...
1. On the contrary, it would be unrighteous for God to not condemn sin--that is what you believe.

2. Please point me to where you have explained your view of Romans 14:23.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#208
Jul 3, 2015
60,140
29,452
113
#208
romans113336 said:
@Magenta @mailmandan @TheDivineWatermark @Cameron143 @cv5

You're all trying wave Ro 14:23 away, as if it does not mean a Christian is condemned by
God for sinning by claiming "no, he's self condemned, not condemned by God".
Click to expand...
:oops:
 
timemeddler

timemeddler

Active member
#209
Jul 13, 2023
449
201
43
#209
romans113336 said:
The issue is that condemnation is the opposite of justification--and James says it does pertain to "salvation" ("can such faith save him?")--and that, again, it pertains to eternal life (Ro 2:6-16), so it's not about "rewards".
Click to expand...
I was refering to romans 14 23, and pertains means related to, not the source of salvation.
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
#210
Sep 23, 2023
847
76
28
#210
Cameron143 said:
I've reconciled the 2. You have God being unrighteous.
Click to expand...
John146 said:
Your view: A believer is justified by his own faith.

Biblical view: A believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
Additionally, that Greek word for "'faith' of Jesus Christ" is the same word for "faithfulness", and it is apparent that "faithfulness" is the correct interpretation in that verse--ie, "faithfulness of Jesus Christ", not "faith of Jesus Christ".
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
#211
Sep 23, 2023
847
76
28
#211
timemeddler said:
I was refering to romans 14 23, and pertains means related to, not the source of salvation.
Click to expand...
Romans 2:6-16 says eternal life will only be repaid to those who do good in this life, and he points to the Gentile believers, on whose hearts God's Law is written (New Covenant promise), and who are "circumcised in the heart by the Spirit" (Ro 2:29), as an example of just such men, so, again, yes, it does pertain to eternal life, and James 2 says the same ("Can such faith save him?").
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#212
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
#212
romans113336 said:
1. On the contrary, it would be unrighteous for God to not condemn sin--that is what you believe.

2. Please point me to where you have explained your view of Romans 14:23.
Click to expand...
post 186, 192
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#213
Jul 3, 2015
60,140
29,452
113
#213
romans113336 said:
2. Please point me to where you have explained your view of Romans 14:23.
Click to expand...
Please point me to where I have explained my view of Romans 14:23.

Oh? You can't?

Then just how is it I am trying wave Romans 14:23 away?

I gave some context. Period. You disagree with Scripture.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#214
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
#214
romans113336 said:
Additionally, that Greek word for "'faith' of Jesus Christ" is the same word for "faithfulness", and it is apparent that "faithfulness" is the correct interpretation in that verse--ie, "faithfulness of Jesus Christ", not "faith of Jesus Christ".
Click to expand...
Get yourself a KJV and stick with it. It will never lead you astray.
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
#215
Sep 23, 2023
847
76
28
#215
timemeddler said:
I was refering to romans 14 23, and pertains means related to, not the source of salvation.
Click to expand...
Again and again: yes, we are "saved" by grace through faith.
Faith is counted as righteousness, leading to justification.
I do not deny that.
I'm talking about walking in faith.
This is the issue addressed in Romans 14:5,23, and James 2.
Again, the Jews were "saved" from Egypt, yet fell under God's wrath for sin--and Paul says the same can happen to us.
 
romans113336

romans113336

Banned
#217
Sep 23, 2023
847
76
28
#217
John146 said:
Get yourself a KJV and stick with it. It will never lead you astray.
Click to expand...
I'm not getting in to KJV-Onlyism.
Saying we're saved by the faith of Christ makes no sense, saying we're saved by the faithfulness of Christ makes sense.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#219
Jul 3, 2015
60,140
29,452
113
#219
Status
Not open for further replies.