Works Complete Faith?
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You think Abraham not sacrificing his son is a flaw in my argument? LOL
Abraham obeyed God when He said "sacrifice your son, your only son whom you love".
Abraham also obeyed God when He said, "Don't sacrifice your son".
Where is the "flaw" in my argument in any of Abraham's obedience?
Abraham obeyed God when He said "sacrifice your son, your only son whom you love".
Abraham also obeyed God when He said, "Don't sacrifice your son".
Where is the "flaw" in my argument in any of Abraham's obedience?
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@romans113336 , jfyi, I added a bit to my post after you grabbed it to quote it ^ Check it out and see if it helps further grasp WHAT I WAS SAYING in my post...
(helps explain further the part about "if you keep in memory WHAT I HAVE PREACHED UNTO YOU [i.e. "His resurrection"] UNLESS you have believed in vain [i.e. left off the vital aspect of "His resurrection" (not believing that), as though He didn't coz according to your view [the ones he's addressing] 'there IS NO resurrection']"; THAT is what it means to "believe in vain"--the idea of Christ still being in the tomb... but He's NOT!! And the ones he listed in vv.5-8, including himself, are WITNESS to that FACT)
--to "believe in vain" means that Christ did not resurrect from the dead (but the FACT is, HE DID!!)
(helps explain further the part about "if you keep in memory WHAT I HAVE PREACHED UNTO YOU [i.e. "His resurrection"] UNLESS you have believed in vain [i.e. left off the vital aspect of "His resurrection" (not believing that), as though He didn't coz according to your view [the ones he's addressing] 'there IS NO resurrection']"; THAT is what it means to "believe in vain"--the idea of Christ still being in the tomb... but He's NOT!! And the ones he listed in vv.5-8, including himself, are WITNESS to that FACT)
--to "believe in vain" means that Christ did not resurrect from the dead (but the FACT is, HE DID!!)
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I don't even need the "unless you believed in vain"--I could even grant that just to move things along--"You are being saved if you continue in faith" is what I'm concerned with. Why say "you are being saved if you continue in faith" when "we were saved"? Both are true. That's the substance of the question--"How could Abraham be justified by faith, but then justified later by works?"--and so that is the substance of the answer.
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Debunked? By who? You lol?
Successfully debunking @TheDivineWatermark happens about as often as a sighting of Haleys comet.
You ought to get around a little buddy.
Successfully debunking @TheDivineWatermark happens about as often as a sighting of Haleys comet.
You ought to get around a little buddy.
Again, I am so blessed to talk with "y'all" (
), even though you all disagree with me--and some even detest me--because discussing the Scriptures with Christians who have God's grace, like you, highlights my errors, so I can by God's grace pray about correcting my way.
Hebrews 3 says "unbelief" is caused by "sin", so, to what ever extent I may not be keeping the twofold command (1 Jn 3:23), I can repent of any sin (desire of the eyes, desire of the flesh, boasting pride) that may be preventing faith, and, so, be strengthened.
Not that I didn't know that before, but, as Peter says, "I am repeating God's Word to you", and Jesus says, "If you remain in my word you are My disciples indeed and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free from sin," and, "Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?"
That doesn't mean I recant anything I've said--it's all 100% accurate--but there is such a thing as overemphasis or underemphasis, which, ipso facto, causes an obfuscation, which is itself also a form of deception.
), even though you all disagree with me--and some even detest me--because discussing the Scriptures with Christians who have God's grace, like you, highlights my errors, so I can by God's grace pray about correcting my way.Hebrews 3 says "unbelief" is caused by "sin", so, to what ever extent I may not be keeping the twofold command (1 Jn 3:23), I can repent of any sin (desire of the eyes, desire of the flesh, boasting pride) that may be preventing faith, and, so, be strengthened.
Not that I didn't know that before, but, as Peter says, "I am repeating God's Word to you", and Jesus says, "If you remain in my word you are My disciples indeed and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free from sin," and, "Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?"
That doesn't mean I recant anything I've said--it's all 100% accurate--but there is such a thing as overemphasis or underemphasis, which, ipso facto, causes an obfuscation, which is itself also a form of deception.
Again, I am so blessed to talk with "y'all" (), even though you all disagree with me--and some even detest me--because discussing the Scriptures with Christians who have God's grace, like you, highlights my errors, so I can by God's grace pray about correcting my way.
Hebrews 3 says "unbelief" is caused by "sin", so, to what ever extent I may not be keeping the twofold command (1 Jn 3:23), I can repent of any sin (desire of the eyes, desire of the flesh, boasting pride) that may be preventing faith, and, so, be strengthened.
Not that I didn't know that before, but, as Peter says, "I am repeating God's Word to you", and Jesus says, "If you remain in my word you are My disciples indeed and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free from sin," and, "Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?"
That doesn't mean I recant anything I've said--it's all 100% accurate--but there is such a thing as overemphasis or underemphasis, which, ipso facto, causes an obfuscation, which is itself also a form of deception.
), even though you all disagree with me--and some even detest me--because discussing the Scriptures with Christians who have God's grace, like you, highlights my errors, so I can by God's grace pray about correcting my way.Hebrews 3 says "unbelief" is caused by "sin", so, to what ever extent I may not be keeping the twofold command (1 Jn 3:23), I can repent of any sin (desire of the eyes, desire of the flesh, boasting pride) that may be preventing faith, and, so, be strengthened.
Not that I didn't know that before, but, as Peter says, "I am repeating God's Word to you", and Jesus says, "If you remain in my word you are My disciples indeed and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free from sin," and, "Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?"
That doesn't mean I recant anything I've said--it's all 100% accurate--but there is such a thing as overemphasis or underemphasis, which, ipso facto, causes an obfuscation, which is itself also a form of deception.
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In that very same post you replied to, I told you: Hebrews 3.
Hebrews 3
12Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart [e]that falls away from the living God. 13But encourage one another every day, as long as it is still called “today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
Hebrews 3
12Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart [e]that falls away from the living God. 13But encourage one another every day, as long as it is still called “today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
It seems like it is you that is calling Moses a "loser-of-salvation" since he didn't make it into the promised land.
I was going to ask you about Moses days ago, but got side-tracked... I was glad to see that Cameron143 brought it up lol.
[my typing fingers cannot keep up with the pace of this thread lol]
I was going to ask you about Moses days ago, but got side-tracked... I was glad to see that Cameron143 brought it up lol.
[my typing fingers cannot keep up with the pace of this thread lol]
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It seems like it is you that is calling Moses a "loser-of-salvation" since he didn't make it into the promised land.
I was going to ask you about Moses days ago, but got side-tracked... I was glad to see that Cameron143 brought it up lol.
[my typing fingers cannot keep up with the pace of this thread lol]
I was going to ask you about Moses days ago, but got side-tracked... I was glad to see that Cameron143 brought it up lol.
[my typing fingers cannot keep up with the pace of this thread lol]
I take that very seriously.
I don't believe that is what is being taught. You have to go back to verse 10 to see the condition that is being spoken of...err in their heart...have not known my ways. It is a warning to ensure that this is not their current condition. It is much like the warning to make our calling and election sure. Otherwise, someone in the estate of verse 10 will not find rest, but a departing from God.
They had a physical salvation. For most, it was not spiritual.
The physical salvation from a physical enemy was a picture of the spiritual salvation from a spiritual enemy. Because they did not know God's ways, they never entered Canaan...His physical rest. Likewise, they never entered His spiritual rest.
The physical salvation from a physical enemy was a picture of the spiritual salvation from a spiritual enemy. Because they did not know God's ways, they never entered Canaan...His physical rest. Likewise, they never entered His spiritual rest.
Paul qualifies them as saved--comparing their salvation to his own salvation.
1 Corinthianis 9
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
1 Corinthianis 9
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
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