Works Complete Faith?

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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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I need it… Will you now say I don’t need it I just desire it so you don’t have to give it.

And what if I desire it? Is that not a reason to give it.

Psalms
Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
What God gives us is holy and godly desires; not our present sinful desires.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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Good works accompany Salvation by grace through faith. But those good works are not the means of attaining Salvation or retaining it
And yet... Christians are start doing evil works and become separated from the Lord because they have turned from being led by the Holy Spirit to being led by devils to do sinful things.

If they don't turn from their sin and confess it to the Lord asking for forgiveness then they will remain UN-righteous even though some claim one can do sinful things and still be righteous as though the Lord is a minister of sin and He just winks at sin and it's all good.


Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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Good Works
---------------------------------

The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.

Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It's not a matter of trying to earn salvation thru good works... It's a matter of being obedient verses being disobedient!

Those that accept the calling of the Lord and become new creatures in Christ Jesus abiding in Him doing good works by the power of the Holy Spirit within as the Lord leads... these are true children of God.

Those claiming to be saved not walking in obedience have rejected the ordination and calling of the Lord and are the children of disobedience who refuse to put on the new man and walk in newness of life to stop being servants of sin...

Colossians 3:5-9
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Romans 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


As these scripture references indicate, those not accepting the calling of the Lord to be led by the Holy Ghost into walking after the new man are in disobedience... which will NOT end well for them unless they repent of their sin and get with the Lord's game plan!
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
Another one that showed up about the same time.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
Good Works
---------------------------------

The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.

Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


It's not a matter of trying to earn salvation thru good works... It's a matter of being obedient verses being disobedient!

Those that accept the calling of the Lord and become new creatures in Christ Jesus abiding in Him doing good works by the power of the Holy Spirit within as the Lord leads... these are true children of God.

Those claiming to be saved not walking in obedience have rejected the ordination and calling of the Lord and are the children of disobedience who refuse to put on the new man and walk in newness of life to stop being servants of sin...

Colossians 3:5-9
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Romans 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


As these scripture references indicate, those not accepting the calling of the Lord to be led by the Holy Ghost into walking after the new man are in disobedience... which will NOT end well for them unless they repent of their sin and get with the Lord's game plan!
That does not mean they were saved and sealed in the first place. Yes, we are told to prove our Salvation and make our Election and Calling sure.

Excellent Scripture quotes.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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Justification is by faith alone.
Faith in Jesus alone. Not in our own works. We can not earn or work to gain justication.

But Faith without works is dead.

Faith and works go hand in hand and can't be seperated.

We need Faith in Jesus, and we will naturally do works if it is true faith.

Fruits of the Spirit come by faith.

When Namaan washed 7 times in the Jordan River was it faith or works?

Stop trying to seperate them.
This "works flow naturally from faith" idea is only necessary for someone who believes in "faith alone" ... but then you read the Bible, and you find that the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole.

You have to do mental gymnastics, and maybe throw in a little mental tarot card reading, to continue holding to your stance in the face of James 2 ("Abraham was justified by works"), or Ro 14:5,23 (Christians who "sin" aren't "justified" but "condemned"), or 1 Co 9:27-1 Co 10 (salvation and the promise can be forfeited through sin).

The Corinthians, also, were living sinfully, but no one doubts they had "true" faith.

James 4 calls his audience "adulteresses" against "God"--on your view, this should not be possible!

James isn't talking about "true" and "false" faith--when comparing faith to a body, he never mentions a "mannequin", only an incomplete body (without its spirit--dead) and a complete one (with its spirit--living), corresponding to an incomplete faith (without works--dead) and a complete faith (with works--living).
Demons believing doesn't refer to a "false" faith--Jesus never promised to save demons by faith, so there is no amount of faith that could save a demon, the point is they also have "faith alone", and they do not have WORKS.
The man who "says he has faith": James is just comparing the persuasive power of his statement against the persuasive power of a life of good works, and asking which one actually glorifies God, so as to move the audience to works, because glorifying God is the point of Christianity.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I would like to think our desires are holy. However; what we may consider holy may not be in Gods eyes.
Our desires become holy as we delight ourselves in Him because He literally gives them to us. Everything about us has some measure of sin in it.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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That does not mean they were saved and sealed in the first place. Yes, we are told to prove our Salvation and make our Election and Calling sure.

Excellent Scripture quotes.
Oops, Ro 11:17-23 says people who had faith saw God graft them in to God's people, and unbelief can cause them to see God cutting them off--just what was happening with the Galatians (Gal 1:6, 3:1-3, 5:4,7).
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I say I have faith…. Please tell me how you would determine if my faith is authentic.
Have you placed your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation? (Ephesians 2:8,9) Are you trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation? (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
 
Sep 23, 2023
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read it and smile.

Ephesians 1

3 Blessed be the EL and Father of our Adonai Yeshua the Messiah, Who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Messiah, 4 even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without defect before Him in love, 5 having predestined us for adoption as children through Yeshua the Messiah to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His desire, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He freely gave us favor in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have our redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Him 10 to an administration of the fullness of the times, to sum up all things in Messiah, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth, in Him. 11 We were also assigned an inheritance in Him, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him Who does all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we should be to the praise of His glory, we who had before hoped in Messiah. 13 In Him you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in Whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 Who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of EL’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

The letter also gives excellent instructions on how we should try to live as believers. Yet still we are not without sin which is why we are told how to try to live as believers.
Hey, that's so great maybe you should start a thread on it--in the meantime, if you're "answering" the thread, go ahead and select a statement and show the error in it.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
Oops, Ro 11:17-23 says people who had faith saw God graft them in to God's people, and unbelief can cause them to see God cutting them off--just what was happening with the Galatians (Gal 1:6, 3:1-3, 5:4,7).
not interested in anything you have to say after your crude and rude posts to another poster the other day in another thread. here you are preaching works and have the vulgarness to say those things to someone else you don't even know. You are the one who should be banned for saying those things.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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Couldn't tell by the actions of those in Matthew 7:21-23.
Oops, Jesus says "You will know them by their fruit", and Mt 7 says those false prophets are lawless, so, yes, you will know them by their fruit, not "supernatural works".
 
Sep 23, 2023
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not interested in anything you have to say after your crude and rude posts to another poster the other day in another thread. here you are preaching works and have the vulgarness to say those things to someone else you don't even know. You are the one who should be banned for saying those things.
*vulgarity

Well, orderliness would dictate you stay on topic, but go ahead and be disorderly.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Satan and demons believe the word of God.
There is no salvation for them though Jesus, they have already been judged, thus there is no point in believing in salvation through Jesus. Yet they still believe.
Simply believing "mental assent" in the word of God is not enough to save. The demons do not believe in Jesus unto salvation (Acts 16:31) and saving belief in Jesus is from the heart. (Romans 10:9,10)
 
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