Works for Salvation: Forgiveness of Others

[07-07-07]

In other words you believe we are saved by grace + works.

Yes, we are to be His workmanship per Ephesians 2:10. Our works are worthless in God's eyes.

 

[Soyeong]

Sounds like sugar coated double talk to me. We are saved by grace through faith, NOT WORKS, then afterwards, we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Nothing there about good works being intrinsically part of our salvation. We are not saved by faith and works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit.

In Ephesians 2:9, it states that our salvation is not the result of works, which means that we are not required to have first done works in order to earn our salvation as the result, however, that does not mean that there is no connection between our salvation and works because verse 10 says that we are made new creations in Christ to do good works.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our works, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. The experience of living in obedience to God's law is about God giving the gift of salvation to us, not about us earning a wage from God. In Titus 2:11-14, it does not say that we earn our salvation as the result of having first done those works or that we will do those works as the fruit of having first been saved, but rather it describes the content of God's gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do those works.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, we are to be His workmanship per Ephesians 2:10. Our works are worthless in God's eyes.

yes, they CAN"T now. nor will they ever, save us

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In Ephesians 2:9, it states that our salvation is not the result of works, which means that we are not required to have first done works in order to earn our salvation as the result, however, that does not mean that there is no connection between our salvation and works because verse 10 says that we are made new creations in Christ to do good works.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our works, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. The experience of living in obedience to God's law is about God giving the gift of salvation to us, not about us earning a wage from God. In Titus 2:11-14, it does not say that we earn our salvation as the result of having first done those works or that we will do those works as the fruit of having first been saved, but rather it describes the content of God's gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do those works.

what about the penalty of sin.

when are we saved from it?

 

[07-07-07]

yes, they CAN"T now. nor will they ever, save us

Yes, our works can't save us, but don't mistaken that for the idea that Jesus doesn't require works from us. Every tree is known by it's fruit.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, our works can't save us, but don't mistaken that for the idea that Jesus doesn't require works from us. Every tree is known by it's fruit.

if you believe they are required to in the end be saved,

then you believe works do save us..

 

[07-07-07]

if you believe they are required to in the end be saved,

then you believe works do save us..

Do you believe that forgiving others as Jesus commanded, which is a work, is not required to enter into Heaven?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you believe that forgiving others as Jesus commanded, which is a work, is not required to enter into Heaven?

If I forgive others so I will get to heaven.

then I am working to earn salvation. and my forgiveness is self motivated and self righteous and is considered dung by God

there is no getting around this.

If I forgive others because God has forgiven me, then it is a work of righteousness.

 

[07-07-07]

If I forgive others because God has forgiven me, then it is a work of righteousness.

You are admitting in your statement that work is part of Salvation.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You are admitting in your statement that work is part of Salvation.

it is a result of salvation.

not a part of it.. If we have to do it to be saved, we are trying to earn salvation. our heart is nto right, because we do it for selfish reasons.. God calls them works of the flesh

 

[Soyeong]

what about the penalty of sin.

when are we saved from it?

Our salvation from sin includes being saved both from the penalty of our sin and being saved from continuing to live in sin.

 

[oyster67]

I believe we are saved by grace, the kind of grace that leads a believer into doing God's works as Jesus taught in the Scriptures.

James 2
[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Works are the evidence of faith.

 

[oyster67]

James is discussing the evidence of faith

I see that you beat me to the punch again, Dan-Man.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Our salvation from sin includes being saved both from the penalty of our sin and being saved from continuing to live in sin.

Great!

Then we are secure in Christ and saved forever. Because we have the power over both..

 

[oyster67]

yes, they CAN"T now. nor will they ever, save us

Yes and Amen.

Luke 17:10
“So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.”

We can boast of nothing. We owe all to Him and His grace.

 

[oyster67]

what about the penalty of sin.

when are we saved from it?

The instant we come under the blood of Jesus.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I know that being human means we always want to turn everything into a law. So let me ask a question. Is it possible to be repentant, recognizing the wretchedness of ones self knowing that we need mercy and grace and not also deal mercifully with others? If you are truely repentant then you will see others in their doomed state in their wretched state and deal also mercifully with them.
Its one thing to ask for forgiveness to escape wrath, and another be a beggar and plead for mercy from the depths of sorrow.

 

[oyster67]

Do you believe that forgiving others as Jesus commanded, which is a work, is not required to enter into Heaven?

It is not a work. That is where your disconnect is. I know it sounds like splitting hairs, but wording is important when we discuss doctrine here at CC.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus said that without the works of forgiveness of others, the Father will not forgive us

More silliness from 07-07-07. First humility was a "work" now forgiveness is a "work". Just remember that there is a heavy price for misrepresenting God and what the Bible really says.

 

[07-07-07]

It is not a work. That is where your disconnect is. I know it sounds like splitting hairs, but wording is important when we discuss doctrine here at CC.

Forgiveness is an act, and that is work. No disconnect. The "no works" doctrine is not Biblical, as it's adherents misuse Ephesians 2:8 & 9.