Eastern Orthodoxy is not Talmud Pharisaism (Mishnaism).

[Scotth1960]

The EO is not the Church that Christ founded.

Its an offshoot of the temple cult.

Mushroom head.

Strangelove, .

Slander against a holy man of God!

God bless you. You don't know what you are saying! May God forgive you. Amen.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Dear Strangelove, If the EOC is not the Church that Christ founded, what is the Church that Christ founded?
How do you know what it is, and can you prove your idea of the Church is correct/right/true/holy?
God bless you.
In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington

PS That there is some similarity between OT priests and NT priests is only logical.
Christ did not come to do away with the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them. Not everything Hebrew/OT/Jewish is Pharisaical and false.

 

[Scotth1960]

Strangelove, .

Slander against a holy man of God!

God bless you. You don't know what you are saying! May God forgive you. Amen.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Dear Strangelove, If the EOC is not the Church that Christ founded, what is the Church that Christ founded?
How do you know what it is, and can you prove your idea of the Church is correct/right/true/holy?
God bless you.
In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington

PS That there is some similarity between OT priests and NT priests is only logical.
Christ did not come to do away with the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them. Not everything Hebrew/OT/Jewish is Pharisaical and false.

Dear Strangelove, If you know and love the Truth, if you know and love the Scriptures and the power of God, you will know, love, and believe what the following article says is the Truth. God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

PS

For the truth on the Church of Christ, see: An Orthodox Response to the Recent Roman Catholic Declaration on the Nature of the Church | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

God bless you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear friend,
If you follow "faith alone", that comes from Martin Luther, whom you have not even met. I feel no sorrow for this. I am just stating facts.
Scott in Erie

Dear Scott,

You have not proven this. You will not even say what dead means, or admit dead means dead.

I do not follow Martin Luther. And I am going to call hypocracy on your part. Because you state I slandered you or made an ad hominem attack or whatever. Yet you continue to say I follow Martin Luther. WHich I have already proved Martin Luther did not even believe in the interpretation of james.

If you don't want to discuss scripture why are you here? This is a bible discussion forum. Yet I have never seen you actually discuss scripture. So I must ask why you are here. To condemn us all because we do not follow your church?

Now again. Can you tell me where anything dead can have any life. I am asking a simple question;. I am not asking you to privitly interpret anything. Just asking you to face facts and let me know when anything dead could ever have life. You tell me I am wrong. Yet you will not tell me why. and not prove it by showing me how anything dead could ever have life!

 

[Scotth1960]

Dear Scott,

You have not proven this. You will not even say what dead means, or admit dead means
dead.

I do not follow Martin Luther. And I am going to call hypocracy on your part. Because you

state I slandered you or made an ad hominem attack or whatever. Yet you continue to

say I follow Martin Luther. WHich I have already proved Martin Luther did not even

believe in the interpretation of james.

If you don't want to discuss scripture why are you here? This is a bible discussion forum.

Yet I have never seen you actually discuss scripture. So I must ask why you are here. To

condemn us all because we do not follow your church?


Now again. Can you tell me where anything dead can have any life. I am asking a simple

question;. I am not asking you to privitly interpret anything. Just asking you to face facts

and let me know when anything dead could ever have life. You tell me I am wrong. Yet you

will not tell me why. and not prove it by showing me how anything dead could ever have

life![/quote]

Dear friend, What do you mean by "dead"? Are you referring to the Calvinism dogma of

"total depravity"? That means man is dead in sins and trespasses, so that he has no free

will left. He cannot repent, unless God makes him repent. He can do nothing but sin. God

has forced him to sin. God blames him for what Adam and Eve did, so man is born guilty of

Adam and Eve's sin. He can be born again before he believes, because God makes him be

born again against his own free will. He forces man to believe. He also forces man to

disobey and to sin. This is all Calvin's idea of God's omnipotence, sovereignty, and

providence, that God must be the Cause of everything that comes to pass. So, God is the

cause of man's sin. But then Calvinism backtracks and says that God is not the author of

man's sin. It says God is the cause of everything, but everything does not include man's

sin. It's both illogical, self-contradictory, and heretical against the holy Scriptures and

against the Holy Spirit.

Do you believe in the doctrine of salvation by "faith alone"? That's not in the Bible (See

James 2:24). Luther said it was. He was the first person, the only person so far as I know


to add the word "alone" to Romans 3:28.

Do you believe in "justification by faith alone"? The first person to believe that was

Martin Luther. 1483-1546 years AFTER Jesus Christ!

Here's the proof that Luther invented the false, anti-biblical doctrine of "sola fide" (faith

alone):

"Luther took the opportunity afforded him in his self-appointed role of translator of the

Bible into German, to add and delete words, from the Bible to bolster his ideological-

theological revolutionary agenda. (1) For instance, he decided to strengthen some of his

favorite passages, like Romans Chapter 3, and weaken others. He added the word "only"

to key Biblical passages in which he revised such sentences as you are saved only by

faith, or you are saved by faith alone. These essential forgeries provided Luther with the

"proofs" he needed to bolster his evolving and creatively innovative theology. (2)

"In 1529, Dr. Link, the pre-eminent German language scholar of the day, wrote to

Luther asking him why he had been inserting words into the German Bible. Luther's

astonishing written answer nicely sums up the heart of the Protestant problem of

individualistic subjectivity, "It is so because Dr. Martin Luther says it is so!" (pages

76-77).

Notes.

1. Please see Georges Florovsky, The Byzantine Ascetic and Spiritual Fathers (Belmont,

MA: Nordland, 1987), for a detailed study of the Reformation interpretation of the writings

of St. Paul.

2. "Luther went so far as to insert the word "alone" into his translation of Romans 3:28

making it read: "that man is justified without the works of the law, through faith alone".

While he defended the insertion ... his critics attacked him for "lacerating and falsifying"

(Ec. Enchir. 4 C Cath 34:97-98), not only the biblical text but the biblical doctrine"

(Jaroslav Pelikan, Reformation of Church and Dogma, (Univer. of Chicago Press); p. 252.).

From: Schaeffer, Frank. (2002). Dancing Alone: The Quest For Orthodox Faith in the Age of

False Religion. Salisbury, MA: Regina Orthodox Press.

Regina Orthodox Press Online Store

God bless us everyone. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

Dear Scott,

You have not proven this. You will not even say what dead means, or admit dead means dead.

I do not follow Martin Luther.

Dear eternally gratefull:

Here is the Truth.

Please read:

"The Church Fathers and Sola Fide (Justification By Faith Alone)"

The Church Fathers and "Sola Fide" (Justification by Faith Alone)

God bless you. Amen.

In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear friend, What do you mean by "dead"? Are you referring to the Calvinism dogma of "total depravity"? That means man is dead in sins and trespasses, so that he has no free will left. He cannot repent, unless God makes him repent. He can do nothing but sin. God has forced him to sin. God blames him for what Adam and Eve did, so man is born guilty of Adam and Eve's sin. He can be born again before he believes, because God makes him be born again against his own free will. He forces man to believe. He also forces man to disobey and to sin. This is all Calvin's idea of God's omnipotence, sovereignty, and providence, that God must be the Cause of everything that comes to pass. So, God is the cause of man's sin. But then Calvinism backtracks and says that God is not the author of man's sin. It says God is the cause of everything, but everything does not include man's sin. It's both illogical, self-contradictory, and heretical against the holy Scriptures and against the Holy Spirit.

See Scott this is why no one can have a discussion with you. We were talking about James and "dead faith" and you come up with this heretical calvanistic stuff? What were you trying to do change the subject? I am not calvanist. Nor do I believe in this theology. I am not Lutheran. No do I believe in his stuff. I am not Arminian. Nor do I believe in his stuff. I believe in the word of God. I do not follow men. Why you keep insisting I do is beyond me.

Do you believe in the doctrine of salvation by "faith alone"? That's not in the Bible (See James 2:24).

So now you go back to James. Where james said if a person does not have works his faith is DEAD. This is the dead I was talking about Scott. Have you ever seen a dead thing have life? Why won't you answer this simple question? I am not asking you to privately interpret. I am asking you to explain a fact.

Luther said it was. He was the first person, the only person so far as I know
to add the word "alone" to Romans 3:28.

Yes, And he was in error. But I do not follow Luther. And I would suggest you stop saying I do. Your making an attack against me every time you do! Remember it was you who was claiming I was attacking you. This is called hypocracy. This is the LAST time I will even respond to any Luther comment.

Do you believe in "justification by faith alone"? The first person to believe that was Martin Luther. 1483-1546 years AFTER Jesus Christ!

No actually it was the apostle Paul

Rom 3:20 - 24..Therfore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified. For by the law is knowledge of sin. but now the rightiousness of God apart from the law is revealed being witnessed by the law and the prophets even the rightiousness of God through faith in Christ to all on on all who believe for their is no difference. for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. being justified freely by the grace of God through the redemption in Christ Jesus.

Romans 4 : 1 - 8 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

gal 2: 16 - 24 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

2 tim 1: 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

There you have it. We have covered all basis.

1. Not byu works of the law.
2. Not by works before the law (Law is not included)
3. Not by any work which does not include the law (all other works)

We are justified by Faith. apart from any works of righteousness which we might Do. Luther is not the first. PAUL WAS!



As for the rest of your post. I refuse to talk about luter anymore. I am here to talk Scripture. Not luther. I do not follow Luther. And nothign you posted proved Luther was the first. PAUL WAS!

No do you want to properly answer the question? Can dead ever have life?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear Scott,

You have not proven this. You will not even say what dead means, or admit dead means dead.

I do not follow Martin Luther.

Dear eternally gratefull:

Here is the Truth.

Please read:

"The Church Fathers and Sola Fide (Justification By Faith Alone)"

The Church Fathers and "Sola Fide" (Justification by Faith Alone)

God bless you. Amen.

In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington

I have the word of God. why would I want to read a mans writtings when I have God's? You make no sense! and you say you do not follow men??

 

[Scotth1960]

See Scott this is why no one can have a discussion with you. We were talking about James and "dead faith" and you come up with this heretical calvanistic stuff? What were you trying to do change the subject? I am not calvanist. Nor do I believe in this theology. I am not Lutheran. No do I believe in his stuff. I am not Arminian. Nor do I believe in his stuff. I believe in the word of God. I do not follow men. Why you keep insisting I do is beyond me.

[/b]

So now you go back to James. Where james said if a person does not have works his faith is DEAD. This is the dead I was talking about Scott. Have you ever seen a dead thing have life? Why won't you answer this simple question? I am not asking you to privately interpret. I am asking you to explain a fact.
[/b]

Yes, And he was in error. But I do not follow Luther. And I would suggest you stop saying I do. Your making an attack against me every time you do! Remember it was you who was claiming I was attacking you. This is called hypocracy. This is the LAST time I will even respond to any Luther comment.



No actually it was the apostle Paul

Rom 3:20 - 24..Therfore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified. For by the law is knowledge of sin. but now the rightiousness of God apart from the law is revealed being witnessed by the law and the prophets even the rightiousness of God through faith in Christ to all on on all who believe for their is no difference. for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. being justified freely by the grace of God through the redemption in Christ Jesus.

Romans 4 : 1 - 8 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

gal 2: 16 - 24 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

2 tim 1: 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

There you have it. We have covered all basis.

1. Not byu works of the law.
Friend,
True.
Scott

2. Not by works before the law (Law is not included)

Friend,
What are you saying?
I don't know what your point is!
Scott

3. Not by any work which does not include the law (all other works)

Friend,
Not so. James 2:24 says a man is justfied by works, and not by faith alone.
Scott

We are justified by Faith. apart from any works of righteousness which we might Do.

Friend,
Not apart from any works of righteousness which we might do, according to James 2:24.
Scott

Luther is not the first. PAUL WAS!

Friend,
Are you not misunderstanding Paul to be teaching "faith alone"? It is very possible to misinterpret St. Paul. See: 2 Peter 3:15-16.
God bless.
In Erie Scott

As for the rest of your post. I refuse to talk about luter anymore. I am here to talk Scripture. Not luther. I do not follow Luther. And nothign you posted proved Luther was the first. PAUL WAS!

No do you want to properly answer the question? Can dead ever have life?

Dear eternallygratefull,
Can the dead ever have life? What does Scripture say?
Jesus said unto her, "I AM the resurrection. and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live, And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die: Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26 KJV
God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

PS Yes the dead in Christ, the dead who believe in Christ, can have life; and the living, those who live and believe in Christ, shall never die.

 

[Scotth1960]

I have the word of God. why would I want to read a mans writtings when I have God's? You make no sense! and you say you do not follow men??

Dear friend,
The word of God is the Bible? Which Bible? All Bibles in English are translations, correct? How do you know which translation correctly translates the Greek, if you do not know Greek? Must not you rely on men to tell you what the Bible means? Can you get the whole truth of all the Bible without reading anything other than "the Bible alone"? How can you understand the Bible unless some man/men guide you (see Acts 8:30-31)?
Which tradition will you understand the Bible by? Everyone reads the Bible according to some tradition? Which tradition is the original Apostolic Tradition?

Protestant 30,000 contradictory sects and denominations

Roman catholic one fallible pope of Rome

Eastern Orthodox the Church that Christ founded

God bless. In Erie Scott

 

[Strangelove]

Strangelove, .

Slander against a holy man of God!

God bless you. You don't know what you are saying! May God forgive you. Amen.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Scott, can we please try and keep to rational debate. Your opinion on who is or who is not a holy man.

You keep trying to blow hot air about personal attacks. We are talking about the EO cultic system NOT individuals.

Dear Strangelove, If the EOC is not the Church that Christ founded, what is the Church that Christ founded?
How do you know what it is, and can you prove your idea of the Church is correct/right/true/holy?
God bless you.
In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington

The Holy Priesthood is the Church that Christ founded, with Christ Himself as the high priest with ALL authority in Heaven and on Earth. That means the prisethood of the Kingdom of God which cometh NOT with observation are ALSO not OUTWARDLY priests like the hypocrites of the RCC and EO churches who are simply offshoots of the temple cult. The idea of a spiritual priesthood is proven throughout the entire NT.

Any religious group that claims they have high priests with authority over the flock is a pharisaical CULT like RCC or EO or indeed the third wave evangelial movement with all their false apostles and prophets.

PS That there is some similarity between OT priests and NT priests is only logical.
Christ did not come to do away with the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them. Not everything Hebrew/OT/Jewish is Pharisaical and false.

No its not logical. Jesus TORE DOWN the old temple system. Now Christians worship God in simplicity and without the bells and incense and frills and robes and pomp and ceremony. We worship in SPIRIT and in truth. The temple of God is WITHIN us. We dont need any outward SHOW. Christ did away with the temple and all its ceremony. Thats got nothing to do with His moral law and the words of the prophets. That remains with us. Every attempt to cling to the temple system of OT Israel is pharisaical and false.

 

[Strangelove]

Dear Strangelove, If you know and love the Truth, if you know and love the Scriptures and the power of God, you will know, love, and believe what the following article says is the Truth. God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

PS

For the truth on the Church of Christ, see: An Orthodox Response to the Recent Roman Catholic Declaration on the Nature of the Church | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

God bless you.

I'm not interested in reading vain philosophies and EO propaganda Scott. If you think anything included in your article can help you defend your cult against the direct charges I've brought against it then feel free to post the relevant data into the thread.

I'll stick to Gods Word thanks....ya know...loving the truth and the scriptures and all that?

 

[Strangelove]

EG, why dont we force Scott to stay on topic?

He made this thread to defend the EO cult against charges of phariseeism. Lets challenge him on those issues rather than allowing him to debate protestant doctrine.

Scott we're still waiting for you to provide a defense and rebuttal to my long post on the first page.

Start with vain repetitions please. Whats with 'Lord have mercy' X40?

Did God not hear you the first time?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear eternallygratefull,
Can the dead ever have life? What does Scripture say?
Jesus said unto her, "I AM the resurrection. and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live, And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die: Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26 KJV
God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

PS Yes the dead in Christ, the dead who believe in Christ, can have life; and the living, those who live and believe in Christ, shall never die.

Dear scott. we are tlaking about James. We are not discussing anything you have just said. do you want to stick to the discussion or continue to go off on side streets in order to avoid the question?

ps. those dead to christ who were given life are no longer dead. they are alive. God calls it eternal life. they have been born again. What does this to have with james who talks about a dead faith.

a person dead to christ is dead. they have no life. Unless God gives it to them. then they are no longer dead.

James did not say these people had a live faith then it became dead. He did not say they had a dead faith and it was made alive. he said their faith was dead.

so why do churches want to make a 'dead" faith any faith at all and say God ever saved them?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear friend,
The word of God is the Bible? Which Bible? All Bibles in English are translations, correct? How do you know which translation correctly translates the Greek, if you do not know Greek? Must not you rely on men to tell you what the Bible means? Can you get the whole truth of all the Bible without reading anything other than "the Bible alone"? How can you understand the Bible unless some man/men guide you (see Acts 8:30-31)?
Which tradition will you understand the Bible by? Everyone reads the Bible according to some tradition? Which tradition is the original Apostolic Tradition?

Protestant 30,000 contradictory sects and denominations

Roman catholic one fallible pope of Rome

Eastern Orthodox the Church that Christ founded

God bless. In Erie Scott

which bible? the one God gave us. God did not spend 2000 years making his word for it to not have the power today it had when he started writing it. All of the translations do not matter. If we are open, and allow God to speak to us. he will. it does not matter what version you use. You will know the mistakes they have, and can get around them.

The EO claims James teaches faith plus works. Yet they deny a dead faith is no faith at all. And you will not even discuss the issue. so why would I listen to the EO?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, why dont we force Scott to stay on topic?

He made this thread to defend the EO cult against charges of phariseeism. Lets challenge him on those issues rather than allowing him to debate protestant doctrine.

Scott we're still waiting for you to provide a defense and rebuttal to my long post on the first page.

Start with vain repetitions please. Whats with 'Lord have mercy' X40?

Did God not hear you the first time?

I am still waiting for him to answer those. As well as show us where something that is dead (which has not been made alive) can ever have life. Where he gets his phariseeism works based doctrine from.

But we might be waiting along time./ Been down this road many times.

 

[Scotth1960]

Scott, can we please try and keep to rational debate. Your opinion on who is or who is not a holy man.

You keep trying to blow hot air about personal attacks. We are talking about the EO cultic system NOT individuals.


The Holy Priesthood is the Church that Christ founded, with Christ Himself as the high priest with ALL authority in Heaven and on Earth. That means the prisethood of the Kingdom of God which cometh NOT with observation are ALSO not OUTWARDLY priests like the hypocrites of the RCC and EO churches who are simply offshoots of the temple cult. The idea of a spiritual priesthood is proven throughout the entire NT.

Any religious group that claims they have high priests with authority over the flock is a pharisaical CULT like RCC or EO or indeed the third wave evangelial movement with all their false apostles and prophets.


No its not logical. Jesus TORE DOWN the old temple system. Now Christians worship God in simplicity and without the bells and incense and frills and robes and pomp and ceremony. We worship in SPIRIT and in truth. The temple of God is WITHIN us. We dont need any outward SHOW. Christ did away with the temple and all its ceremony. Thats got nothing to do with His moral law and the words of the prophets. That remains with us. Every attempt to cling to the temple system of OT Israel is pharisaical and false.

Strangelove, Judge not, lest you be judged. God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

which bible? the one God gave us. God did not spend 2000 years making his word for it to not have the power today it had when he started writing it. All of the translations do not matter. If we are open, and allow God to speak to us. he will. it does not matter what version you use. You will know the mistakes they have, and can get around them.

The EO claims James teaches faith plus works. Yet they deny a dead faith is no faith at all. And you will not even discuss the issue. so why would I listen to the EO?

The EO do not deny a dead faith is no faith at all. Who told you that is was? Not the EO Church.
Do you know what the EOC teaches? I hope that I do. God forgive me if I make any mistake and don't fairly and justly represent any of the teachings of the EOC. I'm just a layman, not an experienced person who knows all about EO (Eastern Orthodoxy). I am new to the Orthodox Faith. Those outside of Orthodoxy have no valid Christian criterion by which they can justly criticize Orthodoxy.

 

[Strangelove]

Strangelove, Judge not, lest you be judged. God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Scotty, (Romans 14:13) Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

In Turkmibia, Doc B. Strangelove.

(no eternal judgements on individuals Scottmeister...just judgin' the fruits babe. Vain reps, still waiting)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The EO do not deny a dead faith is no faith at all. Who told you that is was? Not the EO Church.

then tell me scott. How could james say it is faith plus works (in contradiction to Paul) that we are saved.

If the Eo did not deny a dead faith. they would not think James was adding works to faith for salvation. They would know james was saying one who shows no works proves he had a dead faith. and thus are not saved. and never were. That james is preaching against a licentious gospel. Not a faith based Gospel. Because these people do not have faith at all.

Do you know what the EOC teaches? I hope that I do. God forgive me if I make any mistake and don't fairly and justly represent any of the teachings of the EOC. I'm just a layman, not an experienced person who knows all about EO (Eastern Orthodoxy). I am new to the Orthodox Faith. Those outside of Orthodoxy have no valid Christian criterion by which they can justly criticize Orthodoxy.

Yeah we do. We know their gospel. There gospel is the same as the catholic gospel. A gospel of works. Not a gospel of faiht in the one thing which can save us.

 

[Strangelove]

Those outside of Orthodoxy have no valid Christian criterion by which they can justly criticize Orthodoxy.

Huh? The criterion is New Testament Christianity as expounded in God's holy Word!

And when compared to this criterion, EO can be quite easily critisized as being Phariseeism/Temple cult.

Unless you want to actually debate the points made?