For those who do not believe in the Trinity

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Crazy4GODword

Guest
#61
You should try reading over your bible that's right you should not believe everything man says read the word of God. The Bible never says three "persons" that's misleading "persons" makes it seem like there is three human bodies but there is not there is three roles that God is the Father in creator of everything and everyone(flesh). The Son, Jesus Christ(flesh) has the same Spirit of God cuz there is only one Spirit of God and one body of God that is Jesus Christ(Ephesians 4:4). "Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."-(John 8:19) Jesus said I and my Father are one.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."-(Isaiah 9:6). This Son given unto us is Jesus Christ the mighty God, The everlasting Father.

There is only one God and that God is the Father "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?..."-(Malachi 2:10).
What are you talking about? I believe God not man....I follow what God says not my pastor. The Pastor is the one trying to speak the truth to lead us not tell his opinion. There are things pastor says it's the truth which I don't see in the bible and disagree with him. He doesn't want to say his opinion because he is responsible for the church and he trying to live godly.
 
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R3V07UTI0N

Guest
#62
One easy question.

Do you believe Jesus is the one and only true God ''God the Father'' in the flesh, or do you believe he is 1/3 of the Trinity ''God the Son'' in the flesh and completely distinct person from God the Father?
And i agree with you 4runner if you don't mind I would like to add
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."(Galatians 3:20)
Jesus is not one of the three Jesus is God, Jesus is the three.
There is no "Persons" there is only One Father and Father of all.
That is why Jesus ordered to baptize in the name(singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19)
And how did they baptize? (Act 2:38) "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." and many more verses where they baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.
 
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R3V07UTI0N

Guest
#63
What are you talking about? I believe God not man....I follow what God says not my pastor. The Pastor is the one trying to speak the truth to lead us not tell his opinion. There are things pastor says it's the truth which I don't see in the bible and disagree with him. He doesn't want to say his opinion because he is responsible for the church and he trying to live godly.
What is your plan to salvation?
Do you believe in three "persons" or Jesus Christ as the Father manifested in flesh?
Do you believe Jesus is in the Godhead or the Godhead In Jesus?
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#64
Originally Posted by 4runner

One easy question.

Do you believe Jesus is the one and only true God ''God the Father'' in the flesh, or do you believe he is 1/3 of the Trinity ''God the Son'' in the flesh and completely distinct person from God the Father?
If Jesus is God the father, who was he praying to?
Is this an honest question or sarcasm?
 
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#65
Is this an honest question or sarcasm?
It's an honest question. You believe in the "oneness" of God. The father and son are the same thing, right? My question is who was Jesus praying to?
 
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#66
It's an honest question. You believe in the "oneness" of God. The father and son are the same thing, right? My question is who was Jesus praying to?
He was praying to the Father
 
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#67
He was praying to the Father
He was praying to himself?

You have said you believe in oneness, that Jesus is the father. I'm just trying to understand your position.
 
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#68
He was praying to himself?

You have said you believe in oneness, that Jesus is the father. I'm just trying to understand your position.
Jesus was the Father pre-icarnation, as He walked this Earth He was every bit the man you or I am, and needed a relationship with God every bit as much as we do. He gained His strength from the indwellment of the Holy Spirit just like we do. However none of this changes the fact that it was God Himself that became a man.
 
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#69
Jesus was the Father pre-icarnation, as He walked this Earth he was every bit the man you or i am, and needed a relationship with god every bit as much as we do. He gained His strength from the indwellment of the Holy Spirit just like we do. However none of this changes the fact that it was God Himself that became a man.
Thanks for the explanation. I still do not understand. You say God himself became a man. Jesus prayed to God, his father, too many times to count. If you believe God is one, and God became Jesus Christ, who was Jesus praying to? Do you understand my confusion?

Our beliefs differ significantly in this area.
 
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#70
Thanks for the explanation. I still do not understand. You say God himself became a man. Jesus prayed to God, his father, too many times to count. If you believe God is one, and God became Jesus Christ, who was Jesus praying to? Do you understand my confusion?

Our beliefs differ significantly in this area.
The distinction between the Father, and Son was the humanity of Christ, not because He was a separate person of the God-head, or because He was not divine.

When God assumed a human existence with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while He continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of His humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. While I confess that the deity of the Son did pre-exist incarnation, I do not see that deity as the second person of the Trinity, known as " God the Son ", and separate from the Father or Holy Spirit, but rather as the uni-personal God of the old testament. Yahweh, the Father, the Great I Am.
 
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#71
As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father.
I agree with that (^) much of your statement.

1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
 
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#72
I agree with that (^) much of your statement.

1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
These are two of the scripture that tells me the teaching of the Trinity is False, but there are also scripture that tells me Jesus was God.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Here we see the Son that shall be born will be The mighty God, The everlasting Father (the Father), wonderful counsellor (The Holy Spirit), prince of peace (The Son).

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Here we see the Father speaking through the prophet Zechariah that they would look upon HIM who they will pierce.

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one
.
The Lord will have one name not three and that Name is Jesus.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
You see here that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have one name and we know that name is Jesus. (The Apostles baptized their converts in the name of Jesus Christ, not using the trinitarian formula)

The apostles knew that Jesus was the very name of God Himself, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Jesus in no uncertain terms tells us plainly that He is the Father.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Here is tell us He is the Holy Spirit. I (Jesus) will not leave you comfortless I (The Holy Spirit) will come to you.

John 17
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Here Jesus tells us that the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD, if you do not believe that Jesus is God the Father incarnate then you do not believe Jesus is God at all. There is no God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. There is only God the Father, the Son of God, and the Spirit of God who are all one. Paul confirms this in....
1st Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Here it says that God ''The Father''/ or the Holy Spirit either one purchased the Church with His own blood.


Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

This verse clearly states that Jesus pre-existed in the form of God (The Father) and became a man (The Son) humbling Himself to the Father while walking this earth as a human being, same as you and I.

Colossians 2
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The Trinity is one of those philosophies of men Paul warned us about. The truth is the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Christ bodily not 1/3 of it.


1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
God the Father was manifest in the flesh as the Son just as Isaiah 9:6 said He would be.




From the O.T. to the New there is no doubt that God is one, and that one God is the Father, and the Father is a Spirit (the Holy Spirit) , and that God became a man, and the man He became was the Son not a separate person of some trinity.
 
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#73
From the O.T. to the New there is no doubt that God is one, and that one God is the Father, and the Father is a Spirit (the Holy Spirit) , and that God became a man, and the man He became was the Son not a separate person of some trinity.
Again, I agree with this much: "From the O.T. to the New there is no doubt that God is one, and that one God is the Father, and the Father is a Spirit (the Holy Spirit)"

If you would like, I will try and answer your scriptural reasons for believing God became a man tomorrow. It's late, and I need some sleep.

God bless.

(I appreciate the civil discussion. It's far too easy to let it become uncivil. I'm guilty of that more than I like...) ; -)
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#74
(I appreciate the civil discussion. It's far too easy to let it become uncivil. I'm guilty of that more than I like...) ; -)
Me too, these forums more time than not become war rooms. We all need to remember we are brothers, and sisters in Christ
 
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#75
These are two of the scripture that tells me the teaching of the Trinity is False, but there are also scripture that tells me Jesus was God.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Here we see the Son that shall be born will be The mighty God, The everlasting Father (the Father), wonderful counsellor (The Holy Spirit), prince of peace (The Son).
It says "his name shall be called". It does not say he IS those things. Jesus Christ declared God, he made Him known.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Here we see the Father speaking through the prophet Zechariah that they would look upon HIM who they will pierce.
"they shall mourn for him", "his only son", "for him"...... But yes, it does say "me" whom they pierced. I do not have an answer. But there are many other verses that say Jesus was a man, the son of God.

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
The Lord will have one name not three and that Name is Jesus.
He will be Lord, not God.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
You see here that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have one name and we know that name is Jesus. (The Apostles baptized their converts in the name of Jesus Christ, not using the trinitarian formula)

The apostles knew that Jesus was the very name of God Himself, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Some people think Matt 28:19 has words added, and should be "baptizing them in my name", which as you noted, is what the early church did. People are to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Jesus in no uncertain terms tells us plainly that He is the Father.
Jesus Christ declared God. He is the living Word. He always did the father's will. He did not say he IS the father, he said "he that has seen me has seen the father". We cannot see God. If we want to know what God is like, look at Jesus.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Here is tell us He is the Holy Spirit. I (Jesus) will not leave you comfortless I (The Holy Spirit) will come to you.
You are saying it says things it does not say. Jesus did not say he is THE Holy Spirit (God). He said he would come to us, which he did. We have God's gift of holy spirit, Christ in us (Col 1:27)

John 17
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Here Jesus tells us that the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD, if you do not believe that Jesus is God the Father incarnate then you do not believe Jesus is God at all.
That's right. He is not God. He is the Son of God, God's only begotten Son.

There is no God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. There is only God the Father, the Son of God, and the Spirit of God who are all one. Paul confirms this in....
1st Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Yes. Two separate entities. One is God the father, and one is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Here it says that God ''The Father''/ or the Holy Spirit either one purchased the Church with His own blood.
"Holy Ghost" refers to God, who is Holy and is spirit. God is many times referred to as THE Holy spirit. "His own blood" is referring to Jesus because God was Jesus' father. God literally fathered Jesus Christ. Jesus, from his father side, did not inherit Adam's sinful blood. He was not a partaker of:

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.

Jesus blood was from God.

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

This verse clearly states that Jesus pre-existed in the form of God (The Father)
How does it "clearly state" that Jesus pre existed?

and became a man (The Son) humbling Himself to the Father while walking this earth as a human being, same as you and I.
Jesus was exactly the same as you and I, except his father is God.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Jesus "took part". His flesh was the same as every other man. His blood was from God, his father.

Colossians 2
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The Trinity is one of those philosophies of men Paul warned us about. The truth is the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Christ bodily not 1/3 of it.
2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Jesus Christ declared God. And now, we have Christ in us. That does not make us God.

1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
God the Father was manifest in the flesh as the Son just as Isaiah 9:6 said He would be.
Jesus Christ is the living word of God. He declared God, made Him known.

From the O.T. to the New there is no doubt that God is one, and that one God is the Father, and the Father is a Spirit (the Holy Spirit) , and that God became a man, and the man He became was the Son not a separate person of some trinity.
God did not become a man. God fathered His only begotten Son, who was, and is, a man(albeit he is now a glorified man).

1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, AND one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; AND one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

God is God, and Jesus is Jesus. Two separate entities.

God bless.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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#76
"they shall mourn for him", "his only son", "for him"...... But yes, it does say "me" whom they pierced. I do not have an answer. But there are many other verses that say Jesus was a man, the son of God.
That the thing I agree Jesus was a man ''the Son of God'', but I do not think it has to be one or the other. When the bible says he is God incarnate i believe it, when it say He was God's Son i believe it. It is not either or, it is both and.

Some people think Matt 28:19 has words added, and should be "baptizing them in my name", which as you noted, is what the early church did. People are to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Certainly you cannot blame me for believing what the text says over what some people say it should say?
 
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#77
That the thing I agree Jesus was a man ''the Son of God'', but I do not think it has to be one or the other. When the bible says he is God incarnate i believe it, when it say He was God's Son i believe it. It is not either or, it is both and.
The bible does not say he is God incarnate. You are bringing that over from trinitarian thinking.

It says he is the Son of God, the second Adam, a man.
 
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#78
The bible does not say he is God incarnate. You are bringing that over from trinitarian thinking.

It says he is the Son of God, the second Adam, a man.
Actually it does, John 1:1,2 and 14. Philippians 2:6 says He was in the form of God, but took on the form of man, and 1st Timothy 3:16 says God was manifest in the flesh.
 
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#79
Actually it does, John 1:1,2 and 14. Philippians 2:6 says He was in the form of God, but took on the form of man, and 1st Timothy 3:16 says God was manifest in the flesh.
None of those say he was God incarnate.

John 1:1 says God's logos is God. God is His Word. His Word is how we know Him. He gave us the written word and the living Word. The bible, as originally given, is the word of God. It is not God. Jesus Christ is God's word made flesh. He is not God. Both the bible and Jesus Christ make known God because they are God's Word. Neither IS God.

Same thing for John 1:14

Phil does not say Jesus was God and he took the form of a man. It says he was in the form of God. He declared God. He was a man and took the form of a servant, to do God's will. There is a detailed explanation here:

BiblicalUnitarian.com - Content

1 Tim 3:16 Jesus Christ declared God, he made Him known. "He who has seen me has seen the father". Saying that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh is not saying Jesus was God incarnate.