what god has always wanted

VW · Mar 12, 2010

from the beginning of creation, god has desired to have one thing, and all that he has done in the creation is to accomplish the creation of his desire. now god is very capable, able to do anything he sets his mind on. what could be so difficult to create that it has taken all of the time of creation, and all of creation itself to bring about?

god wants a creature who will love him. okay, that is obvious. but god also wants a creature who will listen to him. that is not so obvious. most of us cringe when we think of god speaking to us, personally, but we believe that he sent his son to die for us, personally. don't we? even more, god wants creatures who will be friends with him. who will enjoy being with him, forever. who will have ecstatic joy at being in his presence, and he can find the same joy in them. creatures who will be fit companions for him into eternity.

god started this creature in the garden. he finished this creature in the resurrection of jesus christ. every one of the creatures that will go into eternity to live with god will be like jesus christ. they will have the exact same attributes and will have the same capacity for communication with god, for fellowship with god, for joy in god's presence, for pleasure at hearing god's voice.

god has set examples for us of what pleases him, and what displeases him. jesus pleased him, and he spoke from heaven saying, "this is my son, in whom i am well pleased." we find many many examples of those god was not pleased with. always, it was those who had hardened their hearts, to not hear his voice. those who had turned their backs on god, did not want to walk with him, or talk with him, (oh, they were willing to talk to him, but talking is two way, and god wants us to listen to him too.) they wanted a relationship with god that was and is one step, at least, removed from actually hearing his voice.

why would one not want to hear god's voice? we have the answer for this also, fear. god spoke to the people from the holy mountain, out loud, in his voice. and the people were afraid, and they begged for moses to not let god speak to them, because they would die if he did. and the fear of death comes from not being perfected in love, god's love. god was not pleased with that generation. they did not even want to try to hear him. they hardened their hearts in fear.

if we do not listen to him now, when he is speaking to us with compassion, how will we listen when everything turns to darkness? and if we will not listen now, do we expect him to be pleased with us, and want to be near to us, or allow us to be near to him? he has reserved those places for those who will listen, in this life, because they love him and do not fear.

AnandaHya · Aug 11, 2011

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;A good understanding have all those who do His commandments.His praise endures forever.

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Isaiah 11:2
The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.

Strangelove · Aug 11, 2011

Is this the thread that is meant to answer this:

Ok I'm interested VW.

Whats the holy "place within the veil"?

..and what do I need to do to draw near to God?

Am I missing out on something?

??

damombomb · Aug 11, 2011

Yes I agree God wants a personal relationship with us, one on one.A real one,where we talk to him, give him our attention.Give him the honor
he deserves.We talk to everyone else. He is our creator and he wants to be our number one.

zone · Aug 11, 2011

Strangelove said:

hi Doc!

glass of tea while we wait?
love ya
zonest

AnandaHya · Aug 11, 2011

Strangelove said:

hi strangelove: I think these posts are suppose to answer those questions but good luck with them

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/27040-withing-veil.html

July 4th, 2011

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Withing the veil
One thing that all who have seen the love of God that is showered upon us in Jesus Christ want, is to become pleasing to our heavenly Father. Some believe that they are already pleasing to Him, just on the basis of their believing in Jesus. But we are shown over and over again that there is a growth, a progression, a constant change from the person we were before we first heard, into the image of Jesus Christ as He is now in heaven. How does one grow in Christ?

Many believe that this growth comes by obedience to rules and laws and strictures laid down by the religious church throughout the centuries since she was born. Rules like church attendance, tithing, not drinking, not smoking or eating certain things on certain days. There are so many by all the different groups that I wonder if one could list them all. But one thing we can be sure of, none of these things are of any use against fleshly indulgence.

When we received the Holy Spirit, (if we have received,) we were given all that we needed to grow into the image of Jesus Christ. Jesus said that He would come to us, that He would not leave us alone, but that He would be with us and in us. We are spiritual being, when we become children of God. At that time, we cease to be fleshly beings, beings of this world; and by the Spirit are born again of His incorruptible seed as the spiritual children of the God who is spirit. No amount of effort placed in fleshly pursuits will cause spiritual growth. This is why many are so weak in His image, and do not reflect Him as they should.

Spirit feeds spirit, just as flesh feeds flesh. It takes physical things to maintain our flesh, (unless God intervenes, and sustains us supernaturally.) But the same is true of our spirit which is born of God. It is sustained by the Spirit, has its life in the Spirit and by the Spirit. It takes the Spirit of God to support and maintain the spirit which is born of God.

Now what might not be known is that we will not in this world be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Indeed, the flesh is destined to die, and flesh and blood will not inherit the the kingdom of God. In other words, no one will by the works of the flesh imitate Jesus nor will they become conformed to His image by the works of the flesh. So just how will we become conformed to His image, in what way?

The same Spirit that raised Him from the dead is dwelling in us. He works with and in our spirits to conform us to His image, spiritually. But most people are very weak in the Spirit, and thus are not conformed to Jesus spiritually to any great degree. Why this is does not matter here and now, only that we recognize that growth into Jesus Christ is a spiritual process, and not a physical one. If we can realize this, then we can deny the things which are of this world and seek the things which are in heaven, where Christ is, even where our lives are hidden.

More later, if the Spirit allows.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/27068-within-veil-part-two.html

July 5th, 2011

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Within the veil part two
Spirit calls to spirit. Deep calls to deep. The only food that will satisfy the spirit is spiritual food. One who has received the nature of God by and through the blessing of the Holy Spirit, have as a deep desire that they please their heavenly Father. When we first receive His life, we are overjoyed with the knowledge that everything has become new and that all of the old things have passed away. We don't know exactly how this miracle has happened, but we receive this truth with great joy.

But soon we find that there are troubles, and that the old things, the things that caused us shame and even distress, the little sins and attitudes from before we knew Him, are still moving us and causing us to do things we know He is not pleased with. We have the assurance that our sins are forgiven, but do we know why? For His name's sake. Our sins are forgiven for The sake of His glorious name!

But if we know Him at all, if we have His nature in any degree at all, then we will be mortified at this state of affairs. The Holy Spirit will prick our hearts as we sin, and give us some small feeling of the way our Father sees these things. There are really only two choices in this common situation. We can either ignore our sins and the convictions of the Holy Spirit, or we can renew our efforts to live a holy and sin free life.

Both of these are ineffective, and in the first case we are denying the Holy Spirit's conviction, and in the second case we are doomed to failure in the attempt to live holy and free of sin. Both are destructive, but in different ways. The first places a barrier between our hearts and the leading of the Holy Spirit, which leaves us open for deception, as we are refusing the truth. The second leaves us in one of two places, both of which are disasters to our growth into the image of Christ Jesus. The first place is utterly dejected at our failures and failings, ultimately deciding that we will never be pleasing to Him, thus giving the whole thing up as hopeless. The second is to excuse ourselves and become judgmental of everyone else in an unconcious effort to make us look better in our own eyes, where we become judges of everyone else while not judging ourselves truly.

More later, if He allows.
In Christ

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/27072-within-veil-part-3-a.html

July 5th, 2011

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Within the veil Part 3
How does one become pleasing before God? First, we must ask if our conscience condemns us. God is greater than our hearts, and if our conscience condemns us, then there is something in our lives, in our hearts, that is not pleasing to God. Many will say that because we believe in Jesus that God would never condemn us, but they lack understanding. God provides us with the Spirit of truth, to show us what is pleasing to Him, and what is not pleasing to Him. And this is as He sees us, individually, as one of His children. He looks at each of us as an individual, and He searches our hearts individually, and judges as we need to be judged. In other words, His judgment for this one will not be the same as His judgment for this one's brother. It is by the Spirit, and the Spirit searches out all things, even the deep things of God.

So, the first part of becoming pleasing to God is confession. My heart is condemned, and I see that what I think or say or do or even feel, is displeasing to my heavenly Father. I agree with the judgment, not to get out of something, but because I desire the truth above all things. For it is the truth in the inner most parts that is the beginning of pleasing God. An example: I get angry with a driver who cuts me off in traffic. The Spirit convicts my heart of my anger. I know that He is speaking the truth, I should not have become angry, but, hey, He cut me off. That was wrong also. The Spirit is not talking about what another has done, but about what I have done that is offensive to God. So, do I make excuses, or judge another, or confess the truth and listen to the voice of God?;

If I make an excuse, I am not walking in the truth, but rather in a lie. There is no excuse. I have sinned, because the Spirit has convicted me of sin. If I judge another, showing that they were in the wrong, I have actively worked against the truth, and in my heart taken the place of God, saying that He should judge that one rather than me. Both of these grieve the Holy Spirit. Both of these leave us in unrighteousness. Both of these leave us in the power of sin.

But if I confess, that is, if I readily agree with the Spirit's judgment, because I want the truth in my life above everything else, then Jesus forgives me of my sins, and He cleanses me of all unrighteousness. He does this for many reasons, but the most important one is so we can remain in fellowship with God. For it is in His presence that we can find that which we are looking for.

More later,
In Christ,

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/27074-within-veil-part-4-a.html

July 5th, 2011

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Within the veil Part 4
How can we change to become more like Christ? After all, this is the ultimate aim of every christian, right? Who has the testimony of God saying; "This is My Son, in whom I am well pleased?" No one but Jesus Christ has this testimony, and I believe that no one ever will. This is why we are becoming conformed into the image of Jesus Christ. This is why everyone who has the hope of becoming just as He is when they see Him purifies themselves just as He is pure. When we look at ourselves in truth, through the lenses of the Holy Spirit, and compare ourselves to Jesus, how we react to this comparison will determine how much we will please God.

Most never look. Most are never taught to look. Many do not believe that we should look, that forgiveness is enough, and that nothing else is needed. But if we search our hearts, seeking what God has placed in them, and the desires He has given us from Himself, we will not accept anything else but conformity with Jesus Christ as our goal, knowing that this is the high calling of God in Jesus Christ. Even more, we know that when we see Him, we will become conformed to His image, that God has decreed this as our eventual state. However, how much we can become conformed to His image in this life has a tremendous effect on how much loss we will suffer when we do see Him.

Anyway, if you do not believe that this is a God given desire and a desirable goal, then none of the following will be of any use to you. But if you have this deep set desire in your heart, then the mystery of conformity to Jesus Christ is waiting for you to seek and to knock and to ask. If the Holy Spirit is teaching you to live in Jesus, then you can know that this is possible, and that growing into His image more each day is a blessing beyond wonder, unexplainable with words.

More later,
In Christ,

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/27077-within-veil-part-5-a.html

July 5th, 2011

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Within the veil Part 5
In the beginning of our salvation, the beginning of grace from God, He came and witnessed to us by His Holy Spirit that Jesus is raised from the dead. He then gave us this witness to live in our hearts, this very same Holy Spirit. And according to scripture this anointing teaches us to live in Jesus. But what does that mean? How does one live in Jesus? And if one does live in Jesus, what is the result?

Jesus is the Christ, the mediator between God and man. He is the bridge, the only High Priest, the door, the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to God by by Jesus Christ. But why would one want to come to God? God drew near to the children of Israel, and they backed away from Him, and hardened their hearts. God was too awesome, to terrifying, to majestic, to holy. He frightened them to death. They said that they did not want God to talk to them, or else they would die. Many christians today feel exactly the same way about drawing near to God.

But this is why Jesus came, to bring us into reconciliation with God. One cannot be reconciled and remain aloof, apart, afraid and terrified and unwilling to draw near. If God desired this, He did not need to send Jesus, we were already there. We first have to decide that we want to draw near to Him. That there is a very real and necessary purpose in our drawing near. And we have to set our soul on the path of drawing near, no matter what happens to us. For it is in drawing near to God that we find our conformity to Jesus Christ, and we are then fulfilling His eternal purpose, and He becomes our assurance of salvation.;

Not everyone is ready to draw near. Not everyone is wanting to draw near. If you do, then it is solely because God has given you the desire. For it is true that our God is a consuming fire, and no one who is sane is wanting to draw near to Him. Not unless God has placed this deep and abiding desire in their hearts.

But why is this so terrifying? Simply because we will see ourselves in the full truth, in the light of God's holiness and purity and perfection. We will have to face those things in us which are not of God, which are not pleasing to Him. No one can know just how terrible this is until they actually experience His holiness within the veil.

Three times the Law was given.

Three times Jesus gave His new commandment.

Three times we are called into His presence, before the throne, at the feet of God.

More later,
In Christ,

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/27079-withing-veil-part-6-being-perfected-love.html

July 5th, 2011

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Withing the veil Part 6 (being perfected in love)
No one has beheld God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

His love perfected in us. Think about that, just what that means. The same love that God has for the world that caused Him to sacrifice His only Son, for us. We can have that love perfected in us. You can know, without a shadow of a doubt, that if we have God's love perfected in us, then our hearts will not condemn us, ever. We will have perfect confidence before God, and we will have from Him whatever we ask.

Think about that.

But how is His love to become perfected in us? By what process does God perfect His love in us? Some think that we are perfect from the very first moment we believe, and in many ways we are, in God's eyes. He must see us as perfect, otherwise we could not approach Him. But this perfection is in Christ Jesus, and it is not ours in actual fact. If we say that we have no sin, then we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Notice how he wrote, "if we say that we have no sin." God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. Our only approach to God is through the perfection of Jesus Christ. Period.

But we are not perfected yet. Does anyone doubt this? Let us just say that if anyone is already perfect, that is, without sin, then they will not gain anything from these messages. I am not perfect, far from it, so far from it that I despair of ever becoming perfected in His love. But I desire to be perfected in His love, more than any other desire I have. It is a burning passion, from God.

Anyway, as we draw near to God, His light illuminates us, on the outside and even more, on the inside. In His light, we can see the truth about ourselves, and the more completely we see this truth, the more the word of the cross can work in us, putting to death the lies and hurts and deceits and every other hurtful thing that might be in us. For all of these keep us from walking in His love.

And in His presence, we come to know Him, the One who is from the beginning, the Father of all who are righteous. And as we behold Him more and more, we are changed from beholding His glory into His image, from glory to glory.

If you have this desire, answer it. Ask, seek, knock. He will open the way into His presence.

In Christ, with His love,

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/27115-within-veil-part-7-a.html

July 6th, 2011

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Within the veil Part 7
We have a Master, Who is also our Friend, and who is also our God. He has taken on the task of being the reconciliation for us with His Father. He wants us to know His Father even as He knows Him. He wants us to be drawn into the presence of God, to know Him and be known by Him. But why?

Jesus knows that one thing will cause the whole world to know that He has come as Christ. And this one thing is that we have love for each other. When He charged us with His new commandment, He also promised that the world would know that we are His disciples, if we have love one for another.

This love comes only from God.

We are perfected in this love only by drawing near to God.

As we come into His presence, we can see ourselves in His light. Light dispells darkness, but it does so much more. Light reveals the things hidden, that darkness obscures. If there is evil in our hearts, it can only remain hidden by darkness, and the light of God will reveal it. And if we have evil in our hearts, we are unable to expunge it until it is revealed.

This is a very important reason why we should draw into His presence, as often as we can. The other reason is that in His presence we are changed to be like Him, in His presence. A factual change, from the inside. A change in our hearts, which happens as we behold Him with our spiritual eyes.

God is looking for us to become one with Him. But we know that in Him there is no darkness, not any at all. But what about us? Is there any darkness in us. I know that there is in me. And yet I seek to draw near to Him, to fall down before Him and have His light examine me and reveal all that is in me. Lies, deceptions, darkness, all of these only have power as long as they remain hidden. When they are revealed, they loose their power, and are vanquished.

There are many ways that people have tried to become Holy. Many things and many ways. But only by close and intimate contact with God can we be changed. Look at the lives of the saints, and see how as they walked with God, they took on His character, the more that they walked with Him.

And we are called to abide in Jesus.

reposted for Strangelove and Abiding who just joined us on the threads

zone · Aug 11, 2011

Hebrews 4:16
Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

VW · Aug 11, 2011

There is no mercy without judgment.

zone · Aug 11, 2011

VW said:

you just can't stand that Jesus is extending Mercy that we may approach, draw near FORGIVEN, and receive GRACE upon GRACE, as He finishes what He started in us.

it just oozes from you.
yuck.

unclefester · Aug 11, 2011

Strangelove said:

I'm sorry.....the number you are calling is out of service. Please hang up your keyboard and try again. This is a recording ...............click.

zone · Aug 11, 2011

unclefester said:

eternally-gratefull · Aug 11, 2011

VW said:

I guess VW;s bible left this chapter of romans out. Oh thats right. he does not stand on Gods word. He stands on what he believes is the HS

1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.Christ in Our Place

6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

zone · Aug 11, 2011

yes EG.
but if peeps read Romans and Hebrews they'd know the prophets today should be applying for food stamps or something instead of channeling spirits.
job finished.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED ON ALL COUNTS.
no prophets needed.
no other mediators required or wanted.

loveschild · Aug 12, 2011

God talks to people who listen.

zone · Aug 12, 2011

loveschild said:

God speaks through the scriptures.
some of us listen daily.

AnandaHya · Aug 12, 2011

loveschild said:

yes and so does other things. that is why discernment is so important and the hedge scripture places around a believers thoughts is a protection that should be renewed by prayer and study of Gods' Holy word daily.

Red33 · Aug 12, 2011

VW said:

The judgment seat (bema) of Christ will be a judgment of mercy (Ps 89;14, Prov 20:28, Is 16:5, Heb 4:16), dealing with works (Rev 22:12) and identification with the church and body of Christ, serving either by grace through a labour of love (Heb 6:10) or in the strength and arm of the flesh (Jer 17:5), which will be tried and revealed by fire (1Cor 3:12-15), just as our faith was tried on the earth (1Pt 1:7). Some will get greater mercy (Ps 138:8, Prov 3:3, Jonah 2:8), greater glorified light (1Cor 15:40-44) and greater rewards than others, but all will get mercy and be saved as by fire having Jesus Christ as the portion of their inheritance (Ps 16:5). Some will shine brighter as the stars of heaven who turn many to righteousness (Dan 12:3). There will be those who will have their *part of the tree of life and the holy city and others who will have their part (portion or measure) taken from them (Rev 22:18,19).

* the word 'book' should be translated 'tree' because the word is 'xulon' and not 'biblos' and it refers back to (v.14). The following is the translation of the Codex Sinaiticus of (Rev 22:19)...

19 and if any one take away from the words of the book of this prophecy. God will take away his part from the tree of life, and from the holy city; which things are written in this book.

The KJV and the NKJV got it wrong and went with other manuscripts but when you substitute 'tree' for 'book' it makes sense because when other reference is made to the book of life, the 'name' is taken or blotted out of the book and is never referred to as a 'part of' the book of life. The preposition is also 'apo' referring to 'part of a whole'. This 'part' could refer to the difference of having unfettered access to the tree of life, for some, or 'if their part is taken from them' they would have to be invited to be able to partake of it.

loveschild · Aug 12, 2011

zone said:

30He who is not with Me [definitely [l]on My side] is against Me, and he who does not [definitely] gather with Me and for [m]My side scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy (every evil, abusive, [n]injurious speaking, or indignity against sacred things) can be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the [Holy] Spirit shall not and [o]cannot be forgiven.

loveschild · Aug 12, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Yep that's very true. And the ones saying God doesn't talk are lost. Sadly.

zone · Aug 12, 2011

loveschild said:

does God speak to you audibly Linda?
personal visits?

how does He talk to you?

what god has always wanted

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