Is Baptism in water a work or a command? Is it necessary for salvation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,482
13,421
113
58
How does one appeal to God for a good conscience?
The genitive in the Greek text is correctly translated as the pledge of a good conscience. It's not the mechanical act of getting water baptized that literally saves us - not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience," through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." So why all the extra verbiage if Peter simply meant to say that we are saved by the mechanical act of being water baptized?
 

turbosixx

Active member
Sep 16, 2023
541
123
43
The genitive in the Greek text is correctly translated as the pledge of a good conscience. It's not the mechanical act of getting water baptized that literally saves us - not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience," through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." So why all the extra verbiage if Peter simply meant to say that we are saved by the mechanical act of being water baptized?
So HOW does one make an appeal to God for a good conscience? Sinners prayer? Ask Jesus into your heart?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,482
13,421
113
58
So HOW does one make an appeal to God for a good conscience? Sinners prayer? Ask Jesus into your heart?
Do you really expect me to say that water baptism is the cause of salvation and the cause of a good conscience after reading Peter's entire message here? Who said anything about sinners' prayer or asking Jesus into your heart? Apart from faith in Christ it would be meaningless anyway and so would baptism.
 

turbosixx

Active member
Sep 16, 2023
541
123
43
Do you really expect me to say that water baptism is the cause of salvation and the cause of a good conscience after reading Peter's entire message here? Who said anything about sinners' prayer or asking Jesus into your heart? Apart from faith in Christ it would be meaningless anyway and so would baptism.
All I'm asking is how does one appeal to God for a good conscience? According to the bible.
 

turbosixx

Active member
Sep 16, 2023
541
123
43
If we take out the parenthetical expression, this is how the verse reads.
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Baptism does save us by the resurrection of Christ. If we read Romans 6, we see why.
5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

I suggest this is where you're going off track.
- not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you),
When Peter says not the removal of dirt from the flesh , he is not telling us the physical act does nothing. He's telling us it's not a cleansing bath but it is an appeal to God for a good conscience.
 

turbosixx

Active member
Sep 16, 2023
541
123
43
isn't the answer right there? through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

am i missing something?
-

I'm sorry but that answer doesn't tell us how. The resurrection is what we benefit from our appeal. According to the bible how do we appeal to God for a good conscience? Do we imagine it in our minds, do we pray the sinners prayer, do we ________.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,489
13,797
113
Those who have not been properly Baptized are not in the Body of Christ and that is why it is impossible for my Water Baptism to cause any division in the Body of Christ? :oops:
Again, why are you yelling?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,489
13,797
113
All I'm asking is how does one appeal to God for a good conscience? According to the bible.
1 Peter 3:21-22 ... baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

"Appeal" and "pledge" are different in that an appeal is seeking something while a pledge is promising to give something. I prefer the sense of "pledge", but I recognize it does not encompass the meaning and importance of baptism.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,783
624
113
Lol.. just going to say.. I think threads like this one is when we can see God facepalm. Making something out of nothing yet song playing the words right now "went down in the water came up a brand new man" Called welcome home

A second thought..yeah just two haha the sweet sweet holy spirit never yells did you know that? hmm
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,218
1,614
113
Midwest
op: Is baptism in water a work or a command?

Scripture Says "Both"?:

1) When water baptism 'was In Effect' it must have been "a work
of righteousness," else the only Other choice would have been a
"work of UNrighteousness," eh?

2) Under the law, John, Jesus, and Peter commanded it,
(Matthew 3:6; Mark 1:4, 16:16; Acts 2:38) Correct?:​

Now that this ordinance was "blotted out...nailed to The Cross" (Col 2:14),
God Has Superseded it With His One Baptism, Under Grace.

Amen.

Other Distinctions of prophecy vs Mystery!
+
Update/Addition!


Study to Be APPROVED Open Bible.png
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,315
6,643
113
62
op: Is baptism in water a work or a command?

Scripture Says "Both"?:

1) When water baptism 'was In Effect' it must have been "a work
of righteousness," else the only Other choice would have been a
"work of UNrighteousness," eh?

2) Under the law, John, Jesus, and Peter commanded it,
(Matthew 3:6; Mark 1:4, 16:16; Acts 2:38) Correct?:​

Now that this ordinance was "blotted out...nailed to The Cross" (Col 2:14),
God Has Superseded it With His One Baptism, Under Grace.

Amen.

Other Distinctions of prophecy vs Mystery!
+
Update/Addition!


View attachment 257972
Bringing forth fruit meet for repentance...a product of faith...just as John the Baptist suggested.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,175
5,727
113
Agree. Jesus connected Holy Spirit baptism with salvation. They occur at the same time. Rituals like tub-dunking and foot washing and communion come later and are done for remembrance and illustration.
baptism is just baptism there’s just one doctrine one part is what we do because we believe the promise , the other part is what Jesus does

it’s just one doctrine water and spirit both witness the blood of Jesus

what I mean is Jesus blood was shed for a purpose

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We are baptized for the same purpose remission of sins in his name who shed his blood for our sins

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The holy ghost isn’t given Tony’s for remission of sins baptism is for remission of sins even if we hear and believe the gospel and receive the spirit we’re commanded to be baptized for remission of sins which God established be done in water

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. ( they haven’t been baptized yet but received the spirit because they believed the word )

….Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

water baptism for remission of sins is our part of baptism the giving of his spirit is Jesus promise to believers

what I’m saying is God has established a doctrine for remission of sins in his own word anyone who hears and believes I’ll gladly get baptized in his name knowing It’s Gods doctrine for remission of sins freely offered to all

Jesus blood shed is why baptism matters the source of sins forgivness , baptism is us believing what God said will remit our sins because we believe Jesus died for our sins

you know the sayong “ faith without works is dead being alone ?”

We can think something is true like Jesus died for all the worlds sin but if we dont act upon the offering to take it upon ourselves , does it apply to us ?

And if so then why doesn’t it apply to everyone else who doesn’t get baptized for remission of sins or n Jesus name because they just never believed it was true ?

non believers would never get baptized theres be no reason but believers ot seems like would all reach to get baptized based upon the doctrine and the promise of remission of sins

But I honestly don’t think the Bible ever says “ if you don’t get baptized your lost “ the thing is there’s never a reason fornus to not just believe what is there that God promises through baptism to remit sins

this is something only a believer will do who hears about baptism for remission of sins only belief will Motivate it’s an action based on faith the water is simply Gods design for baptism so we can have an action of faith to perform kind of like this same principle if God says it and we act it’s

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

same principle with baptism of God makes a promise it’s certain but there’s no reason for us not to act upon it
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,610
807
113
Go to the graveyard and preach and let me know how many people respond. And God can quicken a baby. John the Baptist leapt in the womb when Jesus arrived in another womb. God isn't limited in any way in His ability to save.
Unresponsive.
 

turbosixx

Active member
Sep 16, 2023
541
123
43
op: Is baptism in water a work or a command?

Scripture Says "Both"?:

1) When water baptism 'was In Effect' it must have been "a work
of righteousness," else the only Other choice would have been a
"work of UNrighteousness," eh?

2) Under the law, John, Jesus, and Peter commanded it,
(Matthew 3:6; Mark 1:4, 16:16; Acts 2:38) Correct?:​

Now that this ordinance was "blotted out...nailed to The Cross" (Col 2:14),
God Has Superseded it With His One Baptism, Under Grace.

Amen.

Other Distinctions of prophecy vs Mystery!
+
Update/Addition!


View attachment 257972
Isn't obeying a command a work?
 

Dusty59

Active member
Jul 25, 2019
90
120
33
65
Baptistism is not necessary for salvation. the thief on the cross was never baptisted. It is an outward sign of what happen on the inside. As you died to your old ways and life.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
63
Blah blah blah, I don't care about the genitive Greek or what ever, I care about what Jesus Christ says...

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

One must be baptized and have the the Holy Spirit dwelling in him to be saved.