Were Adam and Eve the first two people created in the beginning of time?

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J

JHM

Guest
#81
Fact is the Bible is a multi layered book, wherein some subjects have additional information encoded within it. Lilith is one example of that which I have found and there are many others. One important example is the "Nicolaitanes". Curious as to whose deeds GOD hated, I did some research on that one too; and what I found was kinda scary.
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#82
Perhaps you're right, Petula. I'm not an expert at ancient languages. However, if the bible is "God-inspired", then how did it get translated so poorly? I hear so many Christians defend the perfection of the bible in its original writing, but they feel that if the bible that they're holding isn't accurate it must be due to a person's error along the way. Even if God inspired the original writing, couldn't the authors have ruined the translation from God just as easily as any of the further translators? It's an odd double-standard.
Maybe its done by God himself for a good purpose. Just like Jesus used to speak in parables. Why he had to do that, if his intention was to make everybody understand the mystery of the kingdom of God.

Mk 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:

According to Jesus Christ there are two categories of people.

Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

So the truths of God , the parables, will be only understood by the chosen, they will search for it. Not like the called ones who just believe what is written on the surface. And the chosen ones will not be recognized by the world, because God himself has created them like that.

1C 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1C 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1C 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
 
C

CoooCaw

Guest
#83
adam was created an hermaphrodite
 

vanillakay

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2012
211
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#84
Guys there is no need to slam the OP. I too always thought Ada and eve were first people on earth, BUT.....what about cavemen and prehistoric era?..or was that after adam and eve? and why doesnt the bible mention dinosuars and cavemen?...just becausethe OP quesrtions something in the bible or wonders about it you all call them not Christian? that's really not fair. i wonder about it too.
 
D

DanielAlievsky

Guest
#85
According to the bible or story, the answer is no. We must first understand that the first bible was the Hebrew bible and all bibles are translation from this original text. Sometimes we need to go back to truly understand what the writers intended to say. In Hebrew there are three words that look very similar and therefore confused in their translations. ‘adaaam means mankind; more than one person. Haa-‘adaam (with article) means the man, and ‘eth haa-‘adaam (with article and particle) is a specific person named Adam.
First of all, I would like to say that Adam word without article does not obligatorily mean "mankind". It is possible understanding, but not the only.


Genesis 1

[SUP]26[/SUP] And God said, Let us make man (‘adaam) in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Here it’s talking about the creation of mankind. Note the underline word! It indicates more than one!
[SUP]27[/SUP] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Here is indicated that males and females were created at the same time. So in the beginning of time God created a population of man and women.
Really, there is understanding (on deep levels of Torah), that these words speak not about Adam and Hava (Adam Rishon, Adam the 1st), but about Adam Kadmon (Adam Predecessor, metaphysical concept of the intellect in our world). But the direct understanding is also legitime here. According the direct reading, this phrase tells shortly about both Adam and Hava, and in the 2nd chapter this idea is discussed more in details.
Genesis 2
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the Lord God formed man (‘eth haa-‘adaam) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

-With only fisherman and hunters, there was no one to till the ground (farmers) so God formed Adam. Notice that he wasn’t created! but rather formed. As stated again in verse 8.
The difference between creation (bara) and forming (yatzer) is really important, but it is not a contradiction - it is a hint to deeper levels of the Torah, that creation of the intellectual essence is more fundamental act of bria (creation) that forming a concrete person Adam.

This was the purpose of the creation of Adam. Then God gives him a wife that would suit him and Eve came into existence. They first had Cain and Abel [later Seth (Gen 4:25) and many more (Gen 5:4)]. And as we all know the story, Cain murders Abel and God punishes him.

Genesis 4

[SUP]12 [/SUP]When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
A fugitive and a vagabond shalt though be is God kicking him out from Eden.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

-In verse 14, Cain is afraid to be killed if someone finds him. Notice again the underline words! In verse 15 the lord refers to people with whosoever, again supporting the existence of other people!

[SUP] 16 [/SUP]And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

-Cain went to Nod and got married with a woman from there. Again supporting the existence of other people and even women!! Throughout the rest of the chapter, it lists generations. Again if people look past Cain’s wife as simply something you can’t question and the bible doesn’t give answers to everything, then where did Enoch find his wife? And the following people. Again, it’s because there were many men and women on earth!
You obviously know traditional explanations of this situation - that there were sisters of Cain and Abel, that it is spoken about their descendants, etc.
But I'd like to point out another understanding. Torah never claims that the "man" in its terns (adam, ben-adam, ish) means "Homo Sapiens Sapiens". Terms of Torah and terms of the modern sciences - are very different terms. All that we can know from the text is that someones, named "adam", "hava" (i.e. "life") and "bnei-adam" ("children of Adam"), were exiled from Gan-Eden into our world, and that we are descendants of them. Moreover, we cannot even be sure that "descendant" should be understood sensu stricto - Torah sometimes says "ben" ("son") about a pupil, not about a physical son. (See Rambam, Moreh Nevuchim.)

So, I consider that Adam and Hava were not the 1st people in sense "Homo Sapiens", or "Cro-Magnons". They appeared among humanity (in terms of modern science) about 6000-10000 years ago, as Torah speaks, as a result of their exiling from Eden. And in terms of Torah, they and their children really were the first "men" and "women" at the planet - when other "Homo Sapiens" were at animal level yet, in comparison with them. Further Adam, Hava, their children and their pupils (very important sense of Hebrew word "ben") created the civilazation.

Please excuse me for bad English.
 
Sep 14, 2013
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#86
We actually have too many genes in our body to be from just two people.
 
C

CoooCaw

Guest
#87
Guys there is no need to slam the OP. I too always thought Ada and eve were first people on earth, BUT.....what about cavemen and prehistoric era?..or was that after adam and eve? and why doesnt the bible mention dinosuars and cavemen?...just becausethe OP quesrtions something in the bible or wonders about it you all call them not Christian? that's really not fair. i wonder about it too.

job mentions dinosaurs and cavemen
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,761
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#88
According to some physicists, Time is an illusion that we experience because we see changes which we interpret as time. From change A to change B.
In the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment, it appears that the future affects the past!
This means that events are connected as part of a whole and Time as a concept doesn't exist because from our point of view, how can the present change the past? That would be like time-traveling in the past.

So, as @shittim has said a few times, Creation is more of a word for Revelation or how much we are allowed or revealed to see but we can't fully understand it.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#89
Were Adam and Eve the first two people created in the beginning of time?



Sure. Of course they were. God created mankind and these were the first two. There is no deep mystery or difficulty here. What religion were you raised up in? This is a foundational fact of Christianity and the Word of God.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#91
Were Adam and Eve the first two people created in the beginning of time?



Sure. Of course they were. God created mankind and these were the first two. There is no deep mystery or difficulty here. What religion were you raised up in? This is a foundational fact of Christianity and the Word of God.
I know i know Oyster. I've seen your other posts elsewhere about this topic.
You think the world was created in a precise 24-hour cycle based on an unknown timezone.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#92
I know i know Oyster. I've seen your other posts elsewhere about this topic.
You think the world was created in a precise 24-hour cycle based on an unknown timezone.
Yes, Genesis goes so far as to specify morning/evening light/dark cycles. Its pretty obvious why modern man wants to contort this into his own creation-denying system the cuts God completely out of the picture. They put their own wisdom above that of their Maker.
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#93
Yes, Genesis goes so far as to specify morning/evening light/dark cycles. Its pretty obvious why modern man wants to contort this into his own creation-denying system the cuts God completely out of the picture. They put their own wisdom above that of their Maker.
I don't even know why you even try to use your God-given senses at this point.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#94
I don't even know why you even try to use your God-given senses at this point.
I like you, Eli. :D

I have no idea why...

It must have something to do with your charming ways. :giggle::geek:
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
4,761
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#95
I like you, Eli. :D

I have no idea why...

It must have something to do with your charming ways. :giggle::geek:
All right. Let's go grab a coffee now even if you deny its existence.
 

Fillan

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2022
397
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#97
Cavemen???
Please tell. :unsure::confused:
I think the brother maybe referring to this passage:

Job 30: 5 They were banished from human society,
shouted at as if they were thieves.
6 They were forced to live in the dry stream beds,
among the rocks and in holes in the ground.
7 They brayed among the bushes
and huddled in the undergrowth.
8 A base and nameless brood,
they were driven out of the land.


'Cave-men' lived at the same time as 'civilized' man. God Bless :)
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#98
I think the brother maybe referring to this passage:

Job 30: 5 They were banished from human society,
shouted at as if they were thieves.
6 They were forced to live in the dry stream beds,
among the rocks and in holes in the ground.
7 They brayed among the bushes
and huddled in the undergrowth.
8 A base and nameless brood,
they were driven out of the land.


'Cave-men' lived at the same time as 'civilized' man. God Bless :)
Well boil my bowels!!! :eek::eek::oops:
I had never seen or heard of this before!!!
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,281
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#99
Well boil my bowels!!! :eek::eek::oops:
I had never seen or heard of this before!!!
"35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

Hebrews 11

There are still cave dwellers. Some are nice homes made using caves as their subterranean primary structure. There are even underground cities. The cave men/ women mentioned in the chapter of the Bible above are like David who used them for shelter while being pursued under threat of death. The atheists , who were given authority over the sociology departments and grant money to publish their propaganda, brainwashed the world into believing lies. They convinced the majority that cave men were less evolved humanity. They also claim that extinct kinds of reptiles existed millions of years ago. Neither could be further from the truth. The Bible speaks about both in quite a lot of detail.