The Trinity

[JustNessa]

I realize that this should be a Bible Study, and it can be. I want to view all of the Bible verses that can be seen in favor of the Trinity or the Trinity doctrine, from Christianity not from Hinduism. Also, I can give my version and be critiqued on it.

God is one.
The Father is God or God is the Father. God is Spirit.
The Son is God or Jesus is God the Son.
The Holy Spirit is God or God is Spirit.

The Trinity
There are three persons in one God:
The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
But there is only one God.
The three are not the same person.
They are different from each other. There are three persons, but not three gods.
They are equal and cannot be separated.
Each is fully God.
They perfectly love each other.
The Father glorifies the Son, the Son glorifies the Father, and the Holy Spirit glorifies them both.
Each person has different roles.
The Father leads the Trinity, the Son accomplishes the Father’s plans, and the Spirit shows the world how great the Father and Son are.
This is the Trinity!
-Little Seminary’s Guide to THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT

 

[fredoheaven]

Can you cite from a Christian source from 2000 years ago that declares all Christians must believe that Jesus is God?

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me

 

[PaulThomson]

First off, I would like to say said that, but I will show you that IF one doesn't Believe the Context of Gen 1 and John chapter.
They can't be saved.

The context of John Chapter One is revealed in Chapter Three. Once one comes to understand who Jesus is in Chapter One of John's gospel.

So in Gen chapter :

"In the beginning God".....


John chapter 1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Verse 14: "And the Word became flesh."...





John chapter 3

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Right here in context, Jesus is speaking as Said. "he who does not believe is condemned already, "


Saved People are not condemned because they Believe Jesus is God. Those who do not believe that Jesus is God are not saved. That is why they are condemned. Because they did not Believe. The Lord Jesus said that.

There you have your Biblical answer Contextually.

Is your argument that for person A to believe In another person B they must accurately ascribe all of the truths that are known by other persons that pertain to person B. That seems to be your argument: John at the time of writing, after years of walking with Jesus knows that Jesus is God. Therefore, every person on earth who wants to believe in Jesus, to do so, must affirm that Jesus is God because John affirms that.
I can trust a person to extract me from some dangerous situation without knowing much at all about the person, other than that they have been sent to rescue me and appear capable of it. The name "The Lord Jesus Christ" means "the anointed Lord and Saviour".
"Lord" (Kurios) does not refer in scripture exclusively to God. The Pharisess and Sadducees addressed Pilate as "kurios/sir". Sarah called Abraham " (lord/kurios). We are told their are many lords/kurioi (1 Cor. 8:5). There were many Jeshuahs/saviours aroiund in Jesus generation. There were anointed men besides Jesus. But the term the Lord Jesus Christ refers to the Jesus of Nazareth, THE PERSON, the apostles preached and wrote about, not all the attendant facts about Him. He is the PERSON all must trust/believe in TO BE SAVED

Your argument asserts without proof that to know the historical Person of Jesus and to trust the historical Person of Jesus, one must first understand Him to be God. Scripture does not say that. To be saved from a fire by a fireman one does not need to believe the word of another person trapped in the fire that this fireman is married with children and an MMA fighter. One simply has to trust that thisperson is able to save and is willing to save. After being saved, one may learn more about the rescuer. But that later info was not required to be rescued.

Gen 1:1 says God made the world. John 1:1 says Jesus made the world. John 3 says we must believe in the name of Jesus (i.e. the Lord Jesus Christ) to be saved. None of that mandates believing that the Lord Jesus Christ is God as necessary to be saved, even though the Lord Jesus Christ is God. Jesus warned about putting stumbling blocks and hurdles in the way of people trusting in Him.

 

[Magenta]

1 John 5:10

 

[just_truth]

The Trinity
There are three persons in one God:
The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
But there is only one God.
The three are not the same person.
They are different from each other. There are three persons, but not three gods.
They are equal and cannot be separated.
Each is fully God.
They perfectly love each other.
The Father glorifies the Son, the Son glorifies the Father, and the Holy Spirit glorifies them both.
Each person has different roles.
The Father leads the Trinity, the Son accomplishes the Father’s plans, and the Spirit shows the world how great the Father and Son are.
This is the Trinity!
-Little Seminary’s Guide to THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT

Where we can find the Holy Spirit love the Father?

 

[Cameron143]

Is your argument that for person A to believe In another person B they must accurately ascribe all of the truths that are known by other persons that pertain to person B. That seems to be your argument: John at the time of writing, after years of walking with Jesus knows that Jesus is God. Therefore, every person on earth who wants to believe in Jesus, to do so, must affirm that Jesus is God because John affirms that.
I can trust a person to extract me from some dangerous situation without knowing much at all about the person, other than that they have been sent to rescue me and appear capable of it. The name "The Lord Jesus Christ" means "the anointed Lord and Saviour".
"Lord" (Kurios) does not refer in scripture exclusively to God. The Pharisess and Sadducees addressed Pilate as "kurios/sir". Sarah called Abraham " (lord/kurios). We are told their are many lords/kurioi (1 Cor. 8:5). There were many Jeshuahs/saviours aroiund in Jesus generation. There were anointed men besides Jesus. But the term the Lord Jesus Christ refers to the Jesus of Nazareth, THE PERSON, the apostles preached and wrote about, not all the attendant facts about Him. He is the PERSON all must trust/believe in TO BE SAVED

Your argument asserts without proof that to know the historical Person of Jesus and to trust the historical Person of Jesus, one must first understand Him to be God. Scripture does not say that. To be saved from a fire by a fireman one does not need to believe the word of another person trapped in the fire that this fireman is married with children and an MMA fighter. One simply has to trust that thisperson is able to save and is willing to save. After being saved, one may learn more about the rescuer. But that later info was not required to be rescued.

Gen 1:1 says God made the world. John 1:1 says Jesus made the world. John 3 says we must believe in the name of Jesus (i.e. the Lord Jesus Christ) to be saved. None of that mandates believing that the Lord Jesus Christ is God as necessary to be saved, even though the Lord Jesus Christ is God. Jesus warned about putting stumbling blocks and hurdles in the way of people trusting in Him.

We are saved through faith. This means we are saved as a result of what we believe. What we believe about what? The person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
In answer to the question...who do men say that I am?...Peter answers...Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God...In response to this answer, Jesus says Peter is blessed because the Father has revealed this to him, and that the revelation of the Father of the Son to an individual is the way that the church will be built.
At the very least, someone who is genuinely saved has revealed to them that Jesus is the Christ...which has specific meaning...and is the Son of the living God...which also has meaning.

 

[PaulThomson]

We are saved through faith. This means we are saved as a result of what we believe. What we believe about what? The person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Correct. But the question is "How much of the gospel do we need to understand and embrace to become saved?" The apostle's creed does not list the deity of Jesus Christ s one of the foundational beliefs. It took 3 years of experiencing life with Jesus and under His teaching for the apostles to recognise Jesus as God in the flesh. But you are demanding unregenerate unbelievers to confess that as true of Jesus before they can even be born again. Why are you putting extraneous hurdles in the way of sinners seeking God?
Apostle's Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

*that is, the true Christian church of all times and all places

 

[Cameron143]

Correct. But the question is "How much of the gospel do we need to understand and embrace to become saved?" The apostle's creed does not list the deity of Jesus Christ s one of the foundational beliefs. It took 3 years of experiencing life with Jesus and under His teaching for the apostles to recognise Jesus as God in the flesh. But you are demanding unregenerate unbelievers to confess that as true of Jesus before they can even be born again. Why are you putting extraneous hurdles in the way of sinners seeking God?
Apostle's Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

*that is, the true Christian church of all times and all places

Gotcha. In Matthew 16 Peter says Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. He goes on to say that this is the rock, or basis, to build the church. Do you believe someone becomes part of the church when saved? If so, what does someone understand in a profession that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the living God?

 

[JustNessa]

Where we can find the Holy Spirit love the Father?

It love them all..
Father, Son and Spirit!!

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

what does someone understand in a profession that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the living God?

You mean these?:

1Co_12:3 "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man​

speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that​

no man can say that Jesus Is The Lord, but By The Holy Ghost."​

+

Php_2:10 "That at The Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of​

things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"​

Amen.

 

[Cameron143]

You mean these?:

1Co_12:3 "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man​

speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that​

no man can say that Jesus Is The Lord, but By The Holy Ghost."​

+

Php_2:10 "That at The Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of​

things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"​

Amen.

Thanks. I don't disagree. What I was trying to do was ascertain what a particular poster thought it included.

 

[Magenta]

1 John 4:8b~ God is Love

 

[CS1]

Is your argument that for person A to believe In another person B they must accurately ascribe all of the truths that are known by other persons that pertain to person B. That seems to be your argument: John at the time of writing, after years of walking with Jesus knows that Jesus is God. Therefore, every person on earth who wants to believe in Jesus, to do so, must affirm that Jesus is God because John affirms that.
I can trust a person to extract me from some dangerous situation without knowing much at all about the person, other than that they have been sent to rescue me and appear capable of it. The name "The Lord Jesus Christ" means "the anointed Lord and Saviour".
"Lord" (Kurios) does not refer in scripture exclusively to God. The Pharisess and Sadducees addressed Pilate as "kurios/sir". Sarah called Abraham " (lord/kurios). We are told their are many lords/kurioi (1 Cor. 8:5). There were many Jeshuahs/saviours aroiund in Jesus generation. There were anointed men besides Jesus. But the term the Lord Jesus Christ refers to the Jesus of Nazareth, THE PERSON, the apostles preached and wrote about, not all the attendant facts about Him. He is the PERSON all must trust/believe in TO BE SAVED

Your argument asserts without proof that to know the historical Person of Jesus and to trust the historical Person of Jesus, one must first understand Him to be God. Scripture does not say that. To be saved from a fire by a fireman one does not need to believe the word of another person trapped in the fire that this fireman is married with children and an MMA fighter. One simply has to trust that this person is able to save and is willing to save. After being saved, one may learn more about the rescuer. But that later info was not required to be rescued.

Gen 1:1 says God made the world. John 1:1 says Jesus made the world. John 3 says we must believe in the name of Jesus (i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ) to be saved. None of that mandates believing that the Lord Jesus Christ is God as necessary to be saved, even though the Lord Jesus Christ is God. Jesus warned about putting stumbling blocks and hurdles in the way of people trusting in Him.

NO,

Jesus, who is the Lord's Supreme Authority Said no man comes to the Father except through HIM. Impossible to be saved and not come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and not believe He is God. Your A, B, C, and other scriptures used from 1cor 8:5 are not contextual; the idea of many "g" gods is not the same as " G" God. You failed to continue to read or read before verse 5.

2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if any man love God, the same is
known of him.

7 Howbeit, there is not that knowledge in every man.


"Your argument asserts without proof that to know the historical Person of Jesus and to trust the historical Person of Jesus, one must first understand Him to be God."

First off, I never said any such thing or stated the comment once about "the Historial person of Jesus. " or to trust him.

You pulled from somewhere, but not I who said that.

I believe in the Literal Death, Burial, and Resurrection Of the Lord Jesus Christ, who is Alive and returning soon.
To compare Jesus to a fireman putting out a fire is ridiculous. Jesus gives Eternal Life. God is Eternal, and only an Eternal God can give Eternal Life. Jesus gives Eternal Life. Therefore, He is God.


"Jesus warned about putting stumbling blocks and hurdles in the way of people trusting in Him."

You better adhere to what you are preaching. Look in the mirror.

 

[PaulThomson]

Gotcha. In Matthew 16 Peter says Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. He goes on to say that this is the rock, or basis, to build the church. Do you believe someone becomes part of the church when saved? If so, what does someone understand in a profession that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the living God?

Messiah means anointed one.
THE Messiah was the one promised to be ANOINTED as priest and king, who who would take away sins.

A son of [the living] God is a person, whether spirit or human, whose origin is God. Even demons are called sons of God in Gen. 6:1-4.
THE Son of God is the sinless person promised to fulfil all the OT prophecies about God's redemptor King who would be given an endless kingdom and kingship.

Could you please underline the "Jesus is God" part of the apostle's creed.

Apostle's Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Could you please underline the "Jesus is God" part of the apostle's creed.

Not sure if we should adhere to a man-made creed, but
This I am Sure Of, taking Heed Of All Scriptures For:

The Triune GodHead!​

Amen.

 

[PaulThomson]

Is your argument that for person A to believe In another person B they must accurately ascribe all of the truths that are known by other persons that pertain to person B. That seems to be your argument

NO,

Jesus, who is the Lord's Supreme Authority Said no man comes to the Father except through HIM. Impossible to be saved and not come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and not believe He is God. Your A, B, C, and other scriptures used from 1cor 8:5 are not contextual; the idea of many "g" gods is not the same as " G" God. You failed to continue to read or read before verse 5.

....

"Jesus warned about putting stumbling blocks and hurdles in the way of people trusting in Him."

You better adhere to what you are preaching. Look in the mirror.

Good. Your argument is not that one needs to know all the details about a person to believe in that person.
So, to believe in Jesus FOR SALVATION one does not need to believe about Jesus anything other than what THE BIBLE SAYS is obligatory FOR SALVATION. We cannot elevate sectarian dogma on what is necessary for salvation above what God in the Bible expressly states is necessary for salvation.

So, where in scripture does it expressly declare that we must believe in Jesus' deity to believe effectively in Jesus for salvation? Or even in the earliest list of Christian tenets, the Apostle's Creed, does an unequivocal profession of Jesus' deity occur, for that matter.
You argument is a circular reasoning burger with special pleading sauce.
You take biblical statements about Jesus that are literally true of many other persons and insist they have a special denotation in Jesus' case because Jesus is not just human but also God. and then use the special denotation you have read into the text to prove that the text is declaring your special denotation to be true of Jesus. Completely an exercise in circular and special pleading.

I don't particularly care if you convince yourself with this into believing that you must believe that Jesus is God to be saved. But I do find it objectionable that you are insisting that unbelievers must accept your illogical reasoning to arrive at the same conclusion as you before they can be saved. That kind of behaviour is what Jesus called putting a stumbling block before people and hindering them from entering the Kingdom. They cannot come like a child and trust the person God has validated by death and resurrection as the Saviour, but they have to be intellectually sophisticated before they can receive some esoteric gnosis about Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit that will save them?

I object to your methodology, even though I have come to believe, from growing in my knowledge of Jesus and the Father through scripture and experience, that Jesus is the third divine Person in a triune Godhead.

 

[Cameron143]

Messiah means anointed one.
THE Messiah was the one promised to be ANOINTED as priest and king, who who would take away sins.

A son of [the living] God is a person, whether spirit or human, whose origin is God. Even demons are called sons of God in Gen. 6:1-4.
THE Son of God is the sinless person promised to fulfil all the OT prophecies about God's redemptor King who would be given an endless kingdom and kingship.

Could you please underline the "Jesus is God" part of the apostle's creed.

Apostle's Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

I believe the term Lord would cover it, but the creed is not what I am referring to. One can make an argument for either position. What I want to know is what Jesus being the Christ and the Son of the living God means. The reason I chose those terms is because when Jesus asked who the disciples say He is, this is the answer given by Peter.
By itself these terms wouldn't necessarily lead to a particular understanding. But since Peter's statement turns out to be what the Father reveals to gain entrance into the church, and thereby necessary for salvation, what they mean tells us what a new believer understands.
So if the term Christ or the term Son of the living God include being God, then the new believer would understand that Jesus is God.
So my question was...do you believe either or both terms teach that Jesus is God?

 

[PaulThomson]

I believe the term Lord would cover it, but the creed is not what I am referring to. One can make an argument for either position. What I want to know is what Jesus being the Christ and the Son of the living God means. The reason I chose those terms is because when Jesus asked who the disciples say He is, this is the answer given by Peter.
By itself these terms wouldn't necessarily lead to a particular understanding. But since Peter's statement turns out to be what the Father reveals to gain entrance into the church, and thereby necessary for salvation, what they mean tells us what a new believer understands.
So if the term Christ or the term Son of the living God include being God, then the new believer would understand that Jesus is God.
So my question was...do you believe either or both terms teach that Jesus is God?

I gave the biblical definitions of Messiah and Son of God. The Messiah the Son of God is a particular Messiah and Son of God: the one God promised to raise up from among the people of Israel. That Messiah Son of God according to the apostles, and Peter in his confession, was Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[PaulThomson]

....
This I am Sure Of, taking Heed Of All Scriptures For:

The Triune GodHead!Amen.

Me too. Amen!

 

[Cameron143]

I gave the biblical definitions of Messiah and Son of God. The Messiah the Son of God is a particular Messiah and Son of God: the one God promised to raise up from among the people of Israel. That Messiah Son of God according to the apostles, and Peter in his confession, was Jesus of Nazareth.

So the terms reveal Jesus as God or not?