Eastern Orthodoxy is not Talmud Pharisaism (Mishnaism).

[Scotth1960]

Scott....your fallback ploy of attacking random protestant denominations does not work on me. I'm no denomination. This still doesnt stop the EO sect from worshipping icons.



I dont have a peice of documentation in my liturgy that says "thine immaculate bible do I worship".
I dont kiss the bible or bow down to it, or venerate it.
I only perceive Gods WORD as Holy. Not the paper or binding or leather.

You, on the other hand venerate inanimate objects and say they are holy. Your liturgy even says you worship the icon. It says it.



Oh I understand the word and venerate and worship means the same thing. ITS IDOLATRY. You are displaying more pharisaical characteristic by trying to twist terms from one thing to mean another. Typical lawyers spiel, straight from the talmud.

Do you worship the icon Scotty? Do you think some bones are holy?

Nothing is Holy but God!



I'm a citizen of the Kingdom of God. Its the only one I really care about. Theres no flag for that here.

Are you this much fun when you go out on the town Scott? *groan*

Nothing is holy but God? Then are you saying God is incapable of making sinners holy? Why did Christ say to the Father about His Church, "Sanctify them by the truth; Thy Word is truth", if Christ wasn't going to sanctify and make holy His Church? You still haven't responded to the words "a royal priesthood, and a holy nation" in the Scripture. If only God is holy, then there is no holy nation, and Saint Peter is a fraud for having written the words "holy nation". Therefore, by your false and heretical words, you falsify and misinterpret and call into suspicion the holy Bible, which you claim to believe in. Also, if only God is holy, then all of the angels of heaven must be sinful, and there is sin in heaven. The only sin that occurred in heaven was with the devil, and the devil took a third of the angels with him. And the devil and his angels didn't stay in heaven, but were cast down to the sky in the earth.
None of us are yet in heaven. So you are indeed a citizen of some earthly nation. Even Saint Paul claimed to be a Roman citizen. Are you better than Saint Paul, Strangelove?
God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[SantoSubito]

That just says it all dunnit?!

So if mosaic priests saw peeps bowing down to idols and the people said they were not really bowing down to the idol then they would be let off? Is there anything in scripture that shows that this consideration would be taken into account?

We don't have anything in the OT to compare to the Orthodox and Catholic use of Icons and statuary. All the idols mentioned in the OT were either of pagan deities or the golden calf which as I explained the Israelites literally worshiped as if it was God himself.

Neither of those cases fit the use of images in Catholic or Orthodox circles.

If its being used to turn your mind to God then its an intermediary, just like the golden calf.

IDOLATRY.

So anything that makes me think about God is an idol then? If I look at my Bible and am prompted to think of God is my Bible now an idol? If I look at the night sky and it prompts me to think of God is the night sky now an idol? If I look at my mother and I'm prompted to thank God for her is my mother now an idol?

Once again the Israelites worshiped the calf to worship God. That is not how either the Catholic or Orthodox use images.

Honestly though I don't think any of this will make any difference since you seem to be an extreme Iconoclast.

Excerpt from the EOC liturgy:

Open unto us the door of thy tenderheartedness, OBlessed Theotokos; in
that we have hoped in thee,may we not perish, butthrough thee be
delivered from adversities, for thou art the salvationof the generation
of Christians.

Then they approach the icon of Christ and kiss it, saying:
Thine immaculate icon do we worship, O Good One,asking pardon of our offenses, O Christ God; thou wast pleased of thy goodwill to ascend the
Cross in the flesh, to deliver those whom thou hadstfashioned from
bondage to the enemy. Wherefore, in thanksgiving, we cryout to thee,
with joy hast thou filled all things, O our Savior, havingcome to save
the world.
Then they kiss the iconof the Theotokos, saying the troparion:
A fountain of tenderness art thou, O Theotokos; makeus worthy of
compassion. Look upon the people who have sinned; show thypower as ever,
for hoping in thee, we cry out to thee, Hail, as once didGabriel, Chief
Captain of the Bodiless Ones.

Something to keep in mind is that this is written in an older form of English than what we speak today, and in older English "worship" meant both "worship" as we use it now and "honor". For example it used to be that when you appeared before an English monarch you "worshiped" them (in the second definition of the word). Also as Scott pointed out you "worshiped" your spouses body (once again in the second definition of the word).

Which is why we now use honor or venerate instead of worship, since worship has lost it's second meaning in our English.

 

[Strangelove]

EOC is a pharisaical rabbinic temple cult; that's a false accusation. Only the rabbis of Judaism are rabbinic Jews. Jews who believe in Christ are Christians. Not followers of the rabbis.
The temple was destroyed long ago, so it is impossible for the Church to be a temple cult. The EOC does not sacrifice animals in a temple in Jerusalem, or in a temple or any other holy building anywhere.
Christ is the sole sacrifice to take away our sins as repentant sinners.

Digging up old posts that have already been answered? Your all over the place Scotty.

Did the destruction of the temple stop rabbinic judaism from continuing the temple cult? No. So why should it stop the EOC from being a temple cult too?

The main characteristics of a temple cult is temple style worship (to be seen of men with all the frills and robes and wotnot) and the HYPOCRISY of their doctrines that nullify Gods Word.

EOC displays both in abundance.

Scott, if the EOC was EXACTLY the same as rabbinic judaism then it would fool anyone would it? But seeing as its morphed itself slightly into "christianity" it has many fooled.

 

[Strangelove]

You said, "I think ...." verse so and so in the Bible means "so and so." How do you KNOW what it means?
The full Kingdom of God is in heaven, and hasn't arrived on earth yet. Isn't that why we pray, "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven?"
If the Kingdom of God were here completely now, there would be no sin.
The members of the Orthodox Church are believers in the Kingdom of God, because the Kingdom of God begins in the Church Christ founded.
Outside of the One Church is heresy and schism and false teaching. And antinomianism. I know. When I had not heard of the Orthodox Church, I had sinned many sins as a Lutheran and a Pentecostal. Since I heard of Orthodoxy, I have repented, and I struggle to go and no more sin. I still seek forgiveness for the sins I have committed since I heard of the Orthodox Church.
God has forgiven me. I'll be forgiven more if I do what God requires of me.
God bless you.
It's wrong to keep changing your nationality and flag. It's just plain stupid!

There you have it.

I tell you EVERY SINGLE CULT seeks an Earthly Kingdom.

Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this World. But you dont care what the King says.

 

[Strangelove]

Nothing is Holy but God!
Dear Strangelove. Oh really? What about "the royal priesthood, and the holy nation" in the NT? What about the Virgin Mother of God, who is called blessed among women by Saint Elisabeth?
If Mary is blessed, she is holy, too. Is not Saint Peter holy? Christ called him blessed. If Peter is blessed, he is holy, because CHRIST blessed Peter and made him holy.
You are illogical. God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

If you think YOU are Holy maybe you should start worshipping yourself Scotty!

As for me I'll wear the righteousness of CHRIST through FAITH and be a citizen of HIS Holy nation via HIS HOLY SPIRIT.

ALL GLORY TO GOD!!

 

[Strangelove]

Sir: The Bible is not God. Christ is God.

The Word is God. Thats why it gets a capital W and why we call it Holy.

Why do you give bible a capital B? Are you a Bibliolator? LOLZ!

 

[Strangelove]

Well ...

These sound like conspiracies. And when someone said that the inside job conspiracy for 9/11 was debunked, Strangelove replied with:

And his position on the Protocols? When someone said ...

His response?

It reminded me of what happened when it was discovered that those papers Dan Rather managed to get slamming Bush a decade-ish ago were forgeries. You had liberals screaming "Who cares if they're fake, they're still real!"

Continue to expose yourself by all means.

 

[Strangelove]

Nothing is holy but God? Then are you saying God is incapable of making sinners holy? Why did Christ say to the Father about His Church, "Sanctify them by the truth; Thy Word is truth", if Christ wasn't going to sanctify and make holy His Church? You still haven't responded to the words "a royal priesthood, and a holy nation" in the Scripture. If only God is holy, then there is no holy nation, and Saint Peter is a fraud for having written the words "holy nation". Therefore, by your false and heretical words, you falsify and misinterpret and call into suspicion the holy Bible, which you claim to believe in. Also, if only God is holy, then all of the angels of heaven must be sinful, and there is sin in heaven. The only sin that occurred in heaven was with the devil, and the devil took a third of the angels with him. And the devil and his angels didn't stay in heaven, but were cast down to the sky in the earth.
None of us are yet in heaven. So you are indeed a citizen of some earthly nation. Even Saint Paul claimed to be a Roman citizen. Are you better than Saint Paul, Strangelove?
God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

So YOU Scott R. Harrington are HOLY ARE YOU?

"Sanctify them by the truth; Thy Word is truth"

You've just answered yer own question.

 

[Strangelove]

We don't have anything in the OT to compare to the Orthodox and Catholic use of Icons and statuary. All the idols mentioned in the OT were either of pagan deities or the golden calf which as I explained the Israelites literally worshiped as if it was God himself.

Neither of those cases fit the use of images in Catholic or Orthodox circles.

They perfectly fit the RCC. You worship Mary like she was devine. you pray to her. You bow down to her statue. It's idolatry. repent and leave the temple cult. Flee from it!

So anything that makes me think about God is an idol then? If I look at my Bible and am prompted to think of God is my Bible now an idol? If I look at the night sky and it prompts me to think of God is the night sky now an idol? If I look at my mother and I'm prompted to thank God for her is my mother now an idol?

Once again the Israelites worshiped the calf to worship God. That is not how either the Catholic or Orthodox use images.

Honestly though I don't think any of this will make any difference since you seem to be an extreme Iconoclast.

If your using an OBJECT specifically to turn your mind to God then yes its IDOLATRY. Your legal spiel cannot get you out of this prickly situation. We both know what were talking about.

Something to keep in mind is that this is written in an older form of English than what we speak today, and in older English "worship" meant both "worship" as we use it now and "honor". For example it used to be that when you appeared before an English monarch you "worshiped" them (in the second definition of the word). Also as Scott pointed out you "worshiped" your spouses body (once again in the second definition of the word).

Which is why we now use honor or venerate instead of worship, since worship has lost it's second meaning in our English.

ya cool...just make sure your kids understand this TOTALLY VAGUE and ambiguous distinction between worship and venerate/honor otherwise they might end up bowing down to Mary and offering her prayers and treating her like a god. Oops...most RCC'ers do that, so your cheap legal distinction has been lost on them.

Try again.

 

[Strangelove]

Scott you conveniantly missed out this post after you admitted that only god knows if repose members of your church are true Christians and therefore alive in heaven:

Next question. Do you ask repose members of your congregation to intercede for you or ask them to pray for you?

 

[Scotth1960]

Strangelove .

... the HYPOCRISY of their doctrines that nullify Gods Word.

Dear Strangelove, You claim your personal prerogative to interpret any Scripture whatsoever in the Scriptures according to your own personal, private opinion, any way that you see fit, by your own private, man-made post-Reformation tradition, wherein you claim your own authority to declare the Church a cult, and declare yourself to be the Church, a private citizen of the Kingdom of God of your own making. and it is your own self-made tradition that nullifies God's Word. But instead, the truth is: "Exercising personal prerogative in interpreting the Scriptures as Evangelicals do is a disastrous pitfall, for in the Holy Bible are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest ... unto their own destruction." (II St. Peter 3:16.)" (page 19: Hierodeacon Gregory. (1994). The Church, Tradition, Scripture, Truth, and Christian Life: Some Heresies of Evangelicalism and an Orthodox Response. Etna, CA: Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies.). PS In the past, I too twisted the Scriptures ... it was destructive, and I sinned with my mouth, and I sinned in my heart, and I sinned against God in thought, in word, and in deed, both by what I had done, and by what I have left undone. I still have more to do, lest I would sin by what I leave undone. I have to come to Christ in the Church, and seek the help of the people in the Church, the men of God. God save us all.
God save us who are on the verge of change for the better.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington PS God bless you. I am finished talking to you. I will only respond to you when you stop making the false claim that the Church is a cult. Until you grow up in Christ to know and love the truth (John 16:13, John 15:26, John 3:16, 2 Thess. 2:15, Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15, Jude 3), I will have made no progress in changing your self-made opinion of error, which is your folly. God rescue you from all harm and save you in the shed blood of Jesus Christ our LORD on the Cross, and in the sanctifying incense of the fragrant aroma of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, as Christ is Risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs, bestowing life: God save us all in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ our Saviour: AMEN AND AMEN. In Erie PA USA August 2/15, 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington PPS God bless America!

 

[Scotth1960]

Scott you conveniantly missed out this post after you admitted that only god knows if repose members of your church are true Christians and therefore alive in heaven:

Next question. Do you ask repose members of your congregation to intercede for you or ask them to pray for you?

Dear Strangelove, Do you ask Peter Sellers or Doctor Strangelove (whichever it is) to pray for you? Just wondering! LOL! Scott in Erie PA

 

[AnandaHya]

wow its intense in here.....

perhaps a break to smell the flowers?

 

[Scotth1960]

Digging up old posts that have already been answered? Your all over the place Scotty.

Did the destruction of the temple stop rabbinic judaism from continuing the temple cult? No. So why should it stop the EOC from being a temple cult too?

The main characteristics of a temple cult is temple style worship (to be seen of men with all the frills and robes and wotnot) and the HYPOCRISY of their doctrines that nullify Gods Word.

EOC displays both in abundance.

Scott, if the EOC was EXACTLY the same as rabbinic judaism then it would fool anyone would it? But seeing as its morphed itself slightly into "christianity" it has many fooled.

Dear Strangelove, While the Protestants all profess themselves as great lovers of the Bible above all things, they do not, any of them, love and believe in the Orthodox Catholic "faith once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3) in the one Body of Christ (Eph. 4), the Church (1 Timothy 3:15) founded by Christ (Matt 16:18) with the spoken and written traditions of the Apostles of Christ (2 Thess 2:15).
If the EOC were really a temple cult, they would be trying desperately to rebuild the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and to restore the OT Jewish animal sacrifices. This is precisely what the many born again fundamentalist Evangelical dispensationalist Zionist pre tribulation rapturist premillennialist Protestants are trying to do, that they may see the Jewish temple may be restored, so that Antichrist may come. They are preparing the way for Antichrist, they are not preparing the way for the coming again of Jesus Christ.
The Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church alone, in Her holy celebration of the Most Holy Eucharist of Jesus Christ, is preparing the Church for the coming again of Jesus Christ in the flesh at His second coming. The celebration of the Eucharist until the end of time is what brings about the Kingdom of God on earth in the Holy Orthodox Church. God have mercy on all of us in Christ the Saviour. AMEN AND AMEN.
In Erie PA USA PS God bless America. Blessed is the Kingdom [the Orthodox Church] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages. Amen. God bless you, dear Strangelove. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[SantoSubito]

They perfectly fit the RCC. You worship Mary like she was devine. you pray to her. You bow down to her statue. It's idolatry. repent and leave the temple cult. Flee from it!

Why do I even bother trying to explain anything to you again?

If your using an OBJECT specifically to turn your mind to God then yes its IDOLATRY. Your legal spiel cannot get you out of this prickly situation. We both know what were talking about.

Then you have a very broad definition of idolatry. One which very few people have at that.

ya cool...just make sure your kids understand this TOTALLY VAGUE and ambiguous distinction between worship and venerate/honor otherwise they might end up bowing down to Mary and offering her prayers and treating her like a god. Oops...most RCC'ers do that, so your cheap legal distinction has been lost on them.

Try again.

Once again why do I bother to explain things? Besides the distinction isn't vague.

 

[Dude653]

What do you think of Benny Hinn? He left the Eastern Orthodox Church to become a Pentecostal.

why is that such a big deal??

 

[Strangelove]

Dear Strangelove, Do you ask Peter Sellers or Doctor Strangelove (whichever it is) to pray for you? Just wondering! LOL! Scott in Erie PA

No! I dont....now can you answer my question please?

Do you ask repose members of your congregation to intercede for you or ask them to pray for you?

Why are you so evasive Scott?

 

[Strangelove]

f the EOC were really a temple cult, they would be trying desperately to rebuild the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and to restore the OT Jewish animal sacrifices. This is precisely what the many born again fundamentalist Evangelical dispensationalist Zionist pre tribulation rapturist premillennialist Protestants are trying to do, that they may see the Jewish temple may be restored, so that Antichrist may come. They are preparing the way for Antichrist, they are not preparing the way for the coming again of Jesus Christ.

Why does the EOC harlot daughter need to help build the temple?

The pharisees have already alotted that particular job to their other harlot daughter evangelical Christian Zionism.

Each daughter has their part to play. The EOC job is to snare folks into idolatry, necromancy and other unbiblical practices and keep them away from true faith in Jesus.

 

[Strangelove]

Why do I even bother trying to explain anything to you again?

Search me mate. I would have thought by now that you would realize that you dont have a leg to stand on in this debate.

Then you have a very broad definition of idolatry. One which very few people have at that.

Indeed it is broad. Anything that is not worshipping God in SPIRIT and in TRUTH is idolatry. Your ascersion that few people hold to that defintion doesnt concern me in the slightes. Apostacy is rampant.

Once again why do I bother to explain things? Besides the distinction isn't vague.

Not even vague for kids?

Daddy??? whats the difference between venerate and worship? Hmmm?

 

[Scotth1960]

There you have it.

I tell you EVERY SINGLE CULT seeks an Earthly Kingdom.

Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this World. But you dont care what the King says.

Including the cult of Doctor Strangelove! LOL! The two epistles of Saint Peter Sellers.