If I was a prophet ....

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Evmur

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That's not the whole of the teaching, however.

His teaching was (and is) to correct the Gentiles who were against the Jews. He showed that the Jews who accept Christ are included in Christ.
You made that up.

It is not the obedient Jews who are beloved, it is the disobedient ones

The ones who are the enemies of the gospel, they are the ones beloved.
 

Aaron56

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You made that up.

It is not the obedient Jews who are beloved, it is the disobedient ones

The ones who are the enemies of the gospel, they are the ones beloved.

No. It's called understanding. It's a spiritual gift. You can receive it or not.

What is impossible to receive is that God judges anyone based upon the DNA of their flesh. That's a No No. God would have to maintain a covenant that is not connected to His Son, Christ.
 

Evmur

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No. It's called understanding. It's a spiritual gift. You can receive it or not.

What is impossible to receive is that God judges anyone based upon the DNA of their flesh. That's a No No. God would have to maintain a covenant that is not connected to His Son, Christ.
He chose the Jews ... they had Abraham's DNA.
 

Aaron56

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He chose the Jews ... they had Abraham's DNA.
That's not what it means. When you read "descendants" (the Hebrew word for 'seed) you need to insert "Christ". This is what Paul, a Jew in the flesh, taught.

Jesus said, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing."

We should not insert "unless you're a Jew."
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Perhaps you have not read the scripture as thoroughly as you thought.

After warning us not to exalt ourselves over the fall of Israel ... and nobody is denying that they have fallen Paul writes

So I ask have they stumbled so as to fall? God forbid but through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make them jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their FULL inclusion mean!

For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead [THERE WILL BE NO RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH ... until the Jews are brought in parenthesis mine]
Well,when the majority of Israelis take the mark of the beast,you might change your mind.
 

Aaron56

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I don't blame anyone for this line of thinking: that Jews are somehow under a different covenant. Most people in America do not understand covenant terminology and legality (You mean, I don't git to vote fer it?!!). It was a popular teaching in the 50's (earthly Zionism) after the War. The children of that era cut their teeth on that nonsense.

The problem is: it created racism, primarily against Arabs, who must come into the Kingdom before the Jews. It also ingrained a permissive understanding of God: "Well, if the Jews can do all these terrible things and God lets THEM get into eternity..." It's a non-starter when it comes to maturity and discipline. That's why the leadership from the 60's and 70's was so poor (at least in this country): having affairs with prostitutes, stealing money, cavorting with politicians, basically whoring themselves out to the highest bidder, etc. The children of those people are now paying the price: with no clear example from leadership, they are following their predecessors off the cliff. Now, all manner of celebrities who even wink at Jesus are immediately given the microphone.
 

oyster67

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Thus saith the Lord ...

... perilous times ahead bro
Amen Bro. For sure on that.

Time is short.

Eternity is long.

2 Peter 3:
1This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
 

Evmur

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Amen Bro. For sure on that.

Time is short.

Eternity is long.

2 Peter 3:
1This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Timely word from Oyster :)
 

Evmur

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I don't blame anyone for this line of thinking: that Jews are somehow under a different covenant. Most people in America do not understand covenant terminology and legality (You mean, I don't git to vote fer it?!!). It was a popular teaching in the 50's (earthly Zionism) after the War. The children of that era cut their teeth on that nonsense.

The problem is: it created racism, primarily against Arabs, who must come into the Kingdom before the Jews. It also ingrained a permissive understanding of God: "Well, if the Jews can do all these terrible things and God lets THEM get into eternity..." It's a non-starter when it comes to maturity and discipline. That's why the leadership from the 60's and 70's was so poor (at least in this country): having affairs with prostitutes, stealing money, cavorting with politicians, basically whoring themselves out to the highest bidder, etc. The children of those people are now paying the price: with no clear example from leadership, they are following their predecessors off the cliff. Now, all manner of celebrities who even wink at Jesus are immediately given the microphone.
Make your argument from scripture.

The fact is God has made no covenant at all with the Gentiles, even the New Covenant. What is true is that God has most graciously included us in THEIR covenant, grafted us into THEIR vine, made us fellow citizens in THEIR Commonwealth, partakers in THEIR promises.

Where do we get off exalting ourselves over the branches that have been lopped off to make way for us?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Make your argument from scripture.

The fact is God has made no covenant at all with the Gentiles, even the New Covenant. What is true is that God has most graciously included us in THEIR covenant, grafted us into THEIR vine, made us fellow citizens in THEIR Commonwealth, partakers in THEIR promises.

Where do we get off exalting ourselves over the branches that have been lopped off to make way for us?

If you are exalting yourself over other people then you should stop .
As for the vine,
Apostate Israel is not the vine.Apostste Israel is the prostitute.

Christ is the vine.

John 15:5
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
 

Evmur

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If you are exalting yourself over other people then you should stop .
As for the vine,
Apostate Israel is not the vine.Apostste Israel is the prostitute.

Christ is the vine.

John 15:5
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
you talk a load of rubbish if you don't mind me saying
 
Dec 27, 2018
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you talk a load of rubbish if you don't mind me saying
At least I know the gospel of Jesus Christ and post it.



John 15:5
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
Make your argument from scripture.

The fact is God has made no covenant at all with the Gentiles, even the New Covenant. What is true is that God has most graciously included us in THEIR covenant, grafted us into THEIR vine, made us fellow citizens in THEIR Commonwealth, partakers in THEIR promises.

Where do we get off exalting ourselves over the branches that have been lopped off to make way for us?

Pure rubbish

John 15:5
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.


Get it right the next time.
 

Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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Make your argument from scripture.

The fact is God has made no covenant at all with the Gentiles, even the New Covenant. What is true is that God has most graciously included us in THEIR covenant, grafted us into THEIR vine, made us fellow citizens in THEIR Commonwealth, partakers in THEIR promises.

Where do we get off exalting ourselves over the branches that have been lopped off to make way for us?
When you understand we are all one in Christ there is no room for exalting one over another as far as the covenant is concerned. Either we are in Christ and are one with the others who are in Christ or we are not in Christ. God only has two sons.

He made a covenant with the Jews, who were alive at Sinai. The Jews failed to keep their end and so they became slaves to it. The covenant we are under today is the covenant made between God the Father and God the Son. All who are in Christ are included in the covenant as the children of promise. These are the same promises that were given to Abraham because he believed God.

The Jews were cut off from the promises of Abraham. Instead they were given the covenant of law which made them slaves. But now the door is open for all, whether they be Jew, not Jew, free, male, female, etc. etc. there is no special covenant that remains for the Jews, since Christ includes all men. Thankfully, the generation that is pushing this idea, that of a special covenant with the Jews, will soon die off, and they will take their bad doctrine with them.
 

Cameron143

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When you understand we are all one in Christ there is no room for exalting one over another as far as the covenant is concerned. Either we are in Christ and are one with the others who are in Christ or we are not in Christ. God only has two sons.

He made a covenant with the Jews, who were alive at Sinai. The Jews failed to keep their end and so they became slaves to it. The covenant we are under today is the covenant made between God the Father and God the Son. All who are in Christ are included in the covenant as the children of promise. These are the same promises that were given to Abraham because he believed God.

The Jews were cut off from the promises of Abraham. Instead they were given the covenant of law which made them slaves. But now the door is open for all, whether they be Jew, not Jew, free, male, female, etc. etc. there is no special covenant that remains for the Jews, since Christ includes all men. Thankfully, the generation that is pushing this idea, that of a special covenant with the Jews, will soon die off, and they will take their bad doctrine with them.
This is a good point. Our only boast is in Christ. This is our identity now.
 

Cameron143

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Hmm… I actually read that somewhere… :unsure:

:cool:
This doesn't surprise me. Well, at least not the part about it not being new. The part about you reading I was still a little iffy on.
 

Aaron56

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This doesn't surprise me. Well, at least not the part about it not being new. The part about you reading I was still a little iffy on.
Reading fits nicely between arranging flowers and color-coordinating my wife’s wardrobe.