Am I being thought right? part 1

[Kenneth]

I have a question: Am I being taught right? I have been on a few other Christian chat rooms and they tell me I am wrong; but will not show how or why I am wrong, or just decline my post.

The bible says that Gods word does not go forth and return unto Him void but it accomplishes what he wants. You will find the verse in Isiah 55:11

In the beginning of Job chapter 1 it says that the sons of God came to present them selves before the Lord God and Satan came also. They have an exchange and God asks Satan have you seen My servant Job he is a righteous man. Satan answers back only because you have a hedge around him. God tells him He can do what ever He wants to him but he can not kill him.

Job chapter 1:13-22

Verse 13. And there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brothers house: 14. And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The ox were plowing, and the asses feeding behind them: 15 And the Sebeans fell upon them, and took them away, yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword, and I am escaped alone to tell thee. 16. And when he was yet speaking there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from the heaven, and burned up the sheep, and the servants and consumed them, and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. 17. While he was still speaking there came another, and said, The Chaldean's made out three bands, and fell upon the camels. And have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; And I alone have escaped to tell thee. Verse 18. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in the eldest brother's house 19. And behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; And I only am escaped to tell thee. Verse 20. Then Job arose, and rent his mantel, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped.

Lets stop right here for a second and see just what kind of a man of God Job was. He gets ll this bad news and what does he do? Curse God, shake his fist at God and say “how could you I have loved and worshiped you all my life.” No he did not do that. Verse 21. And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. 22. In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

I want to jump ahead to chapter 38.Job has gone through all the questioning of his so called friends, they have beaten him down to where he has given into one big pity-party.

 

[Kenneth]

Part 2​

In chapters 36&37 Elihu has come down pretty hard on Job. In chapter 38 God shows up.

Verse 1. Thus God answered Job out of the whirlwind. I am sure this is the same whirlwind that God showed up in Ezekiel 1.

Verse 2. Who is this that darken counsel by words with out knowledge? I am sure that God is directing that comment to Elihu who is lurking in the shadows and God is speaking to him.

Verse 3. God tells Job to stand up like a man and put his big-boy paints on because they are going to talk.

Here is where people start to have a problem with what I have been taught. The questions God is going to ask Job happened before the flood that destroyed the first earth age. Reference for that is in 2nd Peter chapter 3.I will go there later.

God starts asking Job (and Elihu) Where were you when I: laid the foundations of the earth, Who has laid the measures there of, where upon are the foundations fastened? Or who laid the corner stone there of. Here comes the verse and remember God started asking these questions with a question: Where were you? 37. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy? This includes all the souls that will be conceived of woman. I use the word conceived rather than born. We have had in our family 2 miscarriages and a 13 month granddaughter die with heart compilations. I know they are with God. I told my daughter and my granddaughter that those children and that little girl were gust to good to have to go throw this world; but every soul must be conceived of woman; and then return to the Father.

God keeps going on with his questions, Or who has shout up the seas with doors, when it brakes forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? God keeps asking all these questions.

If you finish the book you will find out that the earth was inhabited with all types of animals and everything was lush and green. You even had bohemoth the dinosaur.

Then something happened. Lucifer the Chub that covered and protected the Mercy Seat of GOD rebelled and was kicked out of heaven and because of that fact God had to make a choice kill that part of His children that sided with Satan or wipe out the face of the earth and make every soul come through this earth age and choose to serve Him or Satan.

2nd Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant (they know better but they don't care) but by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water. 6. where by the world that then was overflowed with water perished. (this was the first earth age where all the sons of God sang for joy, this is the earth age that God was talking to Job about. The earth age of Genesis 1:1. Verse 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. This is the earth age we live in today they God will destroy with fire. Then we have the eterny where we live with God and everything will be perfect again.

​

 

[Kenneth]

Part 3​

That brings us to verse 2 of Genesis. It reads And the earth was without form and void. God does not create thing that are void and without peruse . Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.



And the earth #776 in the Strong's: erets: from and unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large or partitively a land) common, country, earth,field ,ground. The earth is made up of 4 layers crust, molten, outer core and enter core. We are talking about the crust here.

Was #1961 hayah A prime root to exist i.e. be or become, came to pass

Without form # 8414 Formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness.

And void #922 emptiness, void, waste.

And darkness #2822 darkness, obscurity.

Was over #5921 the same as 5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural often with prefix or a conjunction with a particle following) above over or upon

The surface #6440 face, surface (of ground)

Of the deep #8415 deep,depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea, (of subterranean waters)

And the Spirit #7307 wind, breath,mind, spirit

Of God #430 elohiym The supreme God.

Was hovering #7363 A prime root; to brood; by implication to be relaxed:- flutter, move, shake.

Over #5921 same as was over

surface #6440 same as the surface

Of the waters #4325 water; figuratively juice, flood or spring

This verse if taken from the Hebrew should read: And the earth became without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 

[Dino246]

Here are the two errors you have been taught:

1. That ‘sons of God’ means humans. It doesn’t. Humans weren’t created when the earth was formed.

2. That there was an age prior to Genesis 1:2. That’s the gap theory, and it is incorrect, violating the plain sense of ‘day’ in the text.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I have a question: Am I being taught right? I have been on a few other Christian chat rooms and they tell me I am wrong; but will not show how or why I am wrong, or just decline my post.

In all these posts you never got to the point. So exactly what errors have you been taught? That every soul must be conceived of a woman? Souls and spirits are immaterial, so that would be an error. And "the sons of God" are also spirit beings not conceived by women.

 

[GaryA]

@Kenneth - you are dealing with apples and oranges here - two different "senses" of the use of the word 'void'.

(This is all I have time to say at the moment - perhaps, more explanation may be made later if necessary...)

 

[p_rehbein]

One of the most powerful messages from the Book of Job we can receive is the answer to the question "WHY?" We all so often ask God "why?," especially when things get tough, or go wrong. Job certainly did this.

What was Gods answer?

WHO ARE YOU TO ASK ME WHY?

IMO, it is a dangerous thing to ask God "why?"

 

[Obedience]

I don't understand what you are trying to express.What do you mean by the point?What do you think is your correct point of view?

 

[studentoftheword]

What does your post have to do with Isaiah 55:11-----What is your point in referencing this verse with Job ?????

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty

 

[Kenneth]

Plain and simple point Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me God is going to ask Job to answer the following questions 4: Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? and answer thou me God is asking Job: Just where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? God could ask me, you or any of us this same question. 5: Who hast laid the measures, thereof, if thou knowest? or who hast stretched the line upon it? We know the answer to that and it was God. 6: Whereupon are the foundations thereof Fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof: There are no foundations. God hung the earth in the exact orbit so that the earth would be perfect not to close to the son so it would be to hot, and not to far away so that it would be to cold and barren. Just who put that first building block in place? Tell me Job if you can? 7: When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy? This verse is so important to understanding the beginning: This is why God could say "I know you before you were in your mothers womb." or Jacob I loved and Esau I hated. When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for Joy. All the angles, all the other angelic beings, and yes even Lucifer one of the Cherub that cover and protected the Mercy Seat of God. Lets jump down to the closing verse of chapter 38, a change has taken place here; God is no longer talking about what was going on in Heaven but on the earth at this same period of time. Verse 41. Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto GOD, they wander for meat. Here we are not in heaven any more but looking at what was happening on the earth while all the children of God were in Heaven with GOD.
Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth which I made with thee: he eateth grass as an ox. When did God make this behemoth? At the same time He made Job. Where is Job? He is with all the other children of God in heaven. Where is behemoth on earth. I want to give you a few more details about Behemoth. Verse 16. Lo now his strength is in his loins and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together Verse 18. His bones are as strong as pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. We would call this a dinosour today. The point of all this is A lot happened during this time: In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth.
2nd Peter 3:5 For his they are willingly ignorant that by the word of God the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water perished.
Peter makes it clear here that for what ever the reason people chose to be without understanding of this subject that by the word of
God the heavens were of old and the earth was standing in and out of the water and that the world that then was being overflowed
with water perished.
Peter goes on to say Verse 7. That the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. There will be 3 earth ages. The one that was, that is the age God was questing Job about. The second earth age the one we live in know and then the 3 earth age the heavenly one. when we get the new new earth and the new heaven.

 

[Obedience]

I have a question: Am I being taught right? I have been on a few other Christian chat rooms and they tell me I am wrong; but will not show how or why I am wrong, or just decline my post.

The bible says that Gods word does not go forth and return unto Him void but it accomplishes what he wants. You will find the verse in Isiah 55:11

In the beginning of Job chapter 1 it says that the sons of God came to present them selves before the Lord God and Satan came also. They have an exchange and God asks Satan have you seen My servant Job he is a righteous man. Satan answers back only because you have a hedge around him. God tells him He can do what ever He wants to him but he can not kill him.

Job chapter 1:13-22

Verse 13. And there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brothers house: 14. And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The ox were plowing, and the asses feeding behind them: 15 And the Sebeans fell upon them, and took them away, yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword, and I am escaped alone to tell thee. 16. And when he was yet speaking there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from the heaven, and burned up the sheep, and the servants and consumed them, and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. 17. While he was still speaking there came another, and said, The Chaldean's made out three bands, and fell upon the camels. And have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; And I alone have escaped to tell thee. Verse 18. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in the eldest brother's house 19. And behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; And I only am escaped to tell thee. Verse 20. Then Job arose, and rent his mantel, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped.

Lets stop right here for a second and see just what kind of a man of God Job was. He gets ll this bad news and what does he do? Curse God, shake his fist at God and say “how could you I have loved and worshiped you all my life.” No he did not do that. Verse 21. And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. 22. In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

I want to jump ahead to chapter 38.Job has gone through all the questioning of his so called friends, they have beaten him down to where he has given into one big pity-party.

I don't think there is anything wrong or big problem with what Job's friend said.On the contrary, I like that sentence very much.

Job
5:7 Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
5:8 I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:

 

[Obedience]

Sorry, I didn't know why I didn't see your second and third parts at first.
I think I agree with most of your understanding.
It's just the part of Lucifer. I don't agree with it.
I think Lucifer is a fictional story.

 

[Dino246]

Plain and simple point Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me God is going to ask Job to answer the following questions 4: Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? and answer thou me God is asking Job: Just where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? God could ask me, you or any of us this same question. 5: Who hast laid the measures, thereof, if thou knowest? or who hast stretched the line upon it? We know the answer to that and it was God. 6: Whereupon are the foundations thereof Fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof: There are no foundations. God hung the earth in the exact orbit so that the earth would be perfect not to close to the son so it would be to hot, and not to far away so that it would be to cold and barren. Just who put that first building block in place? Tell me Job if you can? 7: When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy? This verse is so important to understanding the beginning: This is why God could say "I know you before you were in your mothers womb." or Jacob I loved and Esau I hated. When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for Joy. All the angles, all the other angelic beings, and yes even Lucifer one of the Cherub that cover and protected the Mercy Seat of God. Lets jump down to the closing verse of chapter 38, a change has taken place here; God is no longer talking about what was going on in Heaven but on the earth at this same period of time. Verse 41. Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto GOD, they wander for meat. Here we are not in heaven any more but looking at what was happening on the earth while all the children of God were in Heaven with GOD.
Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth which I made with thee: he eateth grass as an ox. When did God make this behemoth? At the same time He made Job. Where is Job? He is with all the other children of God in heaven. Where is behemoth on earth. I want to give you a few more details about Behemoth. Verse 16. Lo now his strength is in his loins and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together Verse 18. His bones are as strong as pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. We would call this a dinosour today. The point of all this is A lot happened during this time: In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth.
2nd Peter 3:5 For his they are willingly ignorant that by the word of God the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water perished.
Peter makes it clear here that for what ever the reason people chose to be without understanding of this subject that by the word of
God the heavens were of old and the earth was standing in and out of the water and that the world that then was being overflowed
with water perished.
Peter goes on to say Verse 7. That the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. There will be 3 earth ages. The one that was, that is the age God was questing Job about. The second earth age the one we live in know and then the 3 earth age the heavenly one. when we get the new new earth and the new heaven.

If you had used some white space, I might have read your post.

 

[Is2C]

You are not wrong in your thinking. I have wrote of this many times and have a long thesis on the subject that in no way can all be on a platform such as this.

If people don't understand and don't want to understand that Bible is clear that there are 3 heaven and earth ages. If people don't get to that understanding than they will never understand a majority of scripture.
The 1st age where we have proof with dinosaurs bones: We have proof of the 1st age when we see dinosaur’s skeletons all over the world that are billions of years old.
It was a perfect paradise with no jet streams or any kind of weather or geological formations that cause catastrophic events we have in this age. We have found Dinosaurs with buttercups still in their mouths under the frozen tundra of Alaska, buttercups only grow in tropical weather. We Find Sea shells just as created billions of years ago embedded in rocks on tops of mountains because of the firmament that once was above us crashed down at an instance-not a Noahs flood.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Old=Gr. Strong’s 1597- ekpalai- of old, long time ago; Heavens =plural in reference to 3 ages.
Peter saying some people are willingly ignorant of the fact even though science and the Bible proves of a 1st earth age before this age, a time of perfect creation that lasted eons of time.
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
Strongs: Perished Gr. apollumi-root of Satan’s name Apollyon: (to destroy fully); from Apo=575 and base of 3639=olethros from primary (ollumi-to destroy, death, punishment, destruction).
A total, complete destruction, not the flood of Noah where it was localized to the giants and the fallen with their abominations of seducing flesh women with a sole purpose of destroying the seed line that the CHRIST child would come from.

The first flood to destroy the first age of a perfect earth, a paradise; because of the perversion of Satan and those that fallowed. It was perfect when the dinosaurs roamed with perfect beings (us) no huge bodies of water on the land; the ocean was above us protecting all of earth from dark space. We were living in houses made of precious stones and metals that would last an eternity, no such word as death until the falling star (Satan). The firmament came crashing down at an instance and froze over because GOD was no longer on earth to warm or light it.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Earth and heaven that are now the 2nd age, flood of the 1st earth age was a total destruction of that earth age. This time GOD will destroy both Heaven and Earth in a consuming fire that consumes the wicked, and all negative evil rudiments; a consuming fire that totally consumes where there will not even be a remembrance, just as while in the flesh we have no remembrance of the 1st age.
perdition Gr.-apoleia-destruction, die, perish = Lucifer is only entity named by name and sentenced to perish, the idiom ‘dead man walking’ comes from this; the perishing (consumed by fire because God is a consuming fire) of those that choose not to fallow God, perish forever never to be thought of or heard of again Apollyon. No one has died yet for they are all waiting for White Throne judgement. Satan is not even dead yet the father of destruction.

Isaiah 24:Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
This did not happen in this 2nd age-it lives on, a total destruction of the 1st age. 1st age GOD had completely destroyed, the perfect paradise where nothing survived. We were created in this age innocent and have no remembrance of it to start this age with a clean slate, so to speak; Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. GOD shook the earth turning completely upside down; continents that once were connected split apart causing massive continental shifts that separated the land and continents we see today. Geological plates crashing together creating turmoil in the atmosphere and earth causing volcanoes, earthquakes atmospheric disruptions; volcanic explosions killing off dinosaurs, causing mountains to explode. It was never created this way in 1st age, it was a paradise. (3rd age after 8k years) A majority of Christians have denied and many still believe because they never have been taught that the Bible does not say the earth is 6k years old, but billions. However, our dated time started creation of- Heb. eth-haadam-the man Adam: The Bible declares this age of flesh man began around 13k years ago. Science and the Bible agree with the account; the ice age ended with the last woolly mammoth dated to the timeline. .

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Manuscripts tell us it became void, wasn’t created that way. it became void when Satan and his cronies rebelled; God doesn’t create anything in vain. And for HE is perfect what HE creates is perfect but the created with free will had always turned to waste.
Isa_45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

2nd age was a re-creation of the 1st formation but was no longer perfect paradise as 1st. 1st formation was perfect without storms, jet stream or volcanoes etc.
Without form; (Heb. Strongs 8414-tohu; to-hoo-utterly destroyed); God did not create it that way, he created it beautiful with his own hands to be inhabited forever as a perfect paradise. This explains Gen.1:2 where it says was void and without form...it became that way, God doesn’t create anything void- Heb. Strongs 922-bohu =an undistinguishable ruin and Heb.-tohu-utterly destroyed! It was a total destruction where everything was destroyed because of downfall of Satan; everything! Plants, animals, cities.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

You are on the right track and if those deny the 1st age than they will never come to full understanding why we are here in this 2nd age. We are created in this age for GOD is fair and righteous and wants to know for once and all if you are going to fallow Satan or GOD-totally your choice. Sorry for long answer but no way to shorten, have a 14 page thesis on it.

 

[John146]

2. That there was an age prior to Genesis 1:2. That’s the gap theory, and it is incorrect, violating the plain sense of ‘day’ in the text.

The first day is not in the text until after verse 2. God does not create things without form and void. God is light and in him is not darkness at all.

 

[Dino246]

The first day is not in the text until after verse 2. God does not create things without form and void. God is light and in him is not darkness at all.

Your wooden misinterpretation of "without form and void" is leading directly to error.

 

[John146]

Your wooden misinterpretation of "without form and void" is leading directly to error.

By "wooden" you mean literal? Then yes, I take the bible literally. I take that as a compliment.

 

[Sipsey]

By "wooden" you mean literal? Then yes, I take the bible literally. I take that as a compliment.

I think that one of the most difficult tasks we have as students of the Bible is to know what is to be taken as literal, and what is not.

 

[Dino246]

By "wooden" you mean literal? Then yes, I take the bible literally. I take that as a compliment.

No, I don’t mean literal, and it definitely wasn’t a compliment. I mean that ‘without form and void’ can literally mean any of several different things, but you take them to mean one specific thing while ignoring or rejecting the other nuances.

 

[John146]

I think that one of the most difficult tasks we have as students of the Bible is to know what is to be taken as literal, and what is not.

Let the bible be as honest as possible. The passage will give indicators when not to take something literally.