Regarding Divorce and Re-marriage discussion in chat last night

[Thaddaeus]

Hi. I am Risy. New to this.

I am divorced. I was a member of a church where a minister instructed me to ask my husband for a divorce after 2 years of praying, seeking God's guidance and waiting for him to reconcile. He didn't want to reconcile. He wanted to be single. When my husband and I came to the Lord in 1999, its like the devil began attacking the marriage.

Anyway, I feel it is so unfair for the wife who want to work things out and stay married till death do us part, to be barred from being able to re-marry.

Maybe its true. Its been many years since my divorce and I am still unmarried.
God is good though and getting me through these tough times.

I think it so unfair the My Lord Jesus Christ had to die for my sins, but He did, now what will I do for Him??

But you know Risy, I can't say for sure, but I very doubt that during that two years that your husband wanted to be single, that he was faithful to you, chances are, I can't say for sure though, that there may have been another woman within that two years or even before that two years, which if this is the case then, well, I will let God make that call. Just keep seeking God, the truth will be revealed

 

[torotoro]

My question is: if you get married and then you get divorced because the person completely changed or was abusive or for any other reason, whatever happened to the stage before marriage? the one where we, theoretically, get to know the person, defects and virtues, and have the chance to decide whether we want to spend the rest of our lives with that person. Couldnt a bad marriage be the result of a bad relationship in the beginning? A person from posts before said that it was common sense. Whatever happens to our common sense when we are dating the person. That's the stage when we should ask for God's guidance and a clear mind to make a good choice. It'll save you from having to deal with a divorce. God forgives us. But we still have to pay the consequences of our actions.

 

[BLC]

Thaddeuas, NoahsDad & Others,

A Christian couple is married for (10) years and the husband leaves and becomes backslidden. They try to reconcile but never do. They get divorced and the man gets remarried. The woman remarries later. Who is in adultery and if so, what do they do to be restored?

If the man came to you for counseling and restoration and wanted to be a member of your assembly, how would you counsel him? God is drawing him back into the fold and has been led to you. What is your word from God to this man?

 

[Thaddaeus]

My question is: if you get married and then you get divorced because the person completely changed or was abusive or for any other reason, whatever happened to the stage before marriage? the one where we, theoretically, get to know the person, defects and virtues, and have the chance to decide whether we want to spend the rest of our lives with that person. Couldnt a bad marriage be the result of a bad relationship in the beginning? A person from posts before said that it was common sense. Whatever happens to our common sense when we are dating the person. That's the stage when we should ask for God's guidance and a clear mind to make a good choice. It'll save you from having to deal with a divorce. God forgives us. But we still have to pay the consequences of our actions.

some people change in a big way behind close doors

 

[Thaddaeus]

If the man came to you for counseling and restoration and wanted to be a member of your assembly, how would you counsel him? God is drawing him back into the fold and has been led to you. What is your word from God to this man?

tough question, but who is in adultery really depends on if the two other people involved, the new husband and new wife, let's asume that all parties had been married before and divorced and none were divorced due to fornication, then all parties would be committing adultery, as far as restoring this person back into the fold they could continue to come to church but we shouldn't let them join the Church if we know they are living in sin, and under no way should they be allowed to hold any office or ministry in the Church. I know everybody ain't going to like this but this is the truth . the only way that person should be restored to the church in any way is to divorce the second wife and live unmarried the rest of his life. and Hope that God will forgive Him again for the divorce part , but to continue to live in adultery, is a place where i would not want to be. let's go all the way back to the first marriage, the Bible says that if we can't forgive then God won't forgive us, so by this standard set by God, there is no reason for divorce even with fornication it says that we have grounds for divorce, but doesn't say we have to divorce. How can we justify a divorce if we are to love one another even as God has loved us. this includes spouses you all, love your spouse even as I have loved you. well I can love her but I can't leave with her. Then how can you say that you can live with the one (God) , whom you have not seen when you can't live with the one you can see,

1jo 4:20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath NOT SEEN?

Ezr 10:1Now when Ezra had prayed, and when he had confessed, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God, there assembled unto him out of Israel a very great congregation of men and women and children: for the people wept very sore.Ezr 10:2And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.Ezr 10:3Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.Ezr 10:4Arise; for this matter belongeth unto thee: we also will be with thee: be of good courage, and do it.Ezr 10:5Then arose Ezra, and made the chief priests, the Levites, and all Israel, to swear that they should do according to this word. And they sware.Ezr 10:6Then Ezra rose up from before the house of God, and went into the chamber of Johanan the son of Eliashib: and when he came thither, he did eat no bread, nor drink water: for he mourned because of the transgression of them that had been carried away.Ezr 10:7And they made proclamation throughout Judah and Jerusalem unto all the children of the captivity, that they should gather themselves together unto Jerusalem;Ezr 10:8And that whosoever would not come within three days, according to the counsel of the princes and the elders, all his substance should be forfeited, and himself separated from the congregation of those that had been carried away.Ezr 10:9Then all the men of Judah and Benjamin gathered themselves together unto Jerusalem within three days. It was the ninth month, on the twentieth day of the month; and all the people sat in the street of the house of God, trembling because of this matter, and for the great rain.Ezr 10:10And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel.Ezr 10:11Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.Ezr 10:12Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do.

 

[jaylynn83]

we make a vow before God til death do us part, I am glad we are not saved by common sense, however leaving or seperating from abusive relationship is not wrong til the abusive party can get their act straight, but if you remarry except for fornication then you will be committing Adultery I didn't say it Jesus said it.

Mt 19:9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

I was in an abusive marriage for years..... I knew in my head it was wrong to divorce unless one of us had an affair.... .. i would talk to my dad (who is a pastor) and also the pastor of the church we were goin to, and various other christian marriage counselors and they would all say the same thing till death do you part... just keep praying holly... just trust god for your marriage..... meanwhile at home im gettin pushed down stairs and lockin myself in anyroom praying to god he doesnt bust the door down and find me..... but still i was told to stay... to not give up on him.. to keep trusting that god would save him.....thaddaeus, i see where you are coming from when you say the two should seperate until the other gets their act together.... but what if there wasnt some where for one of the people to go?? I mean where do you think they would stay at?? sometimes that isnt always an option..I know for myself... there was literally no where for me and my daughter to go... unless i wanted us to sleep on the street.....and he sure wasnt gonna leave "his house" I realize what god says in the bible about divorce.. but i do not believe god would also want us to live in those conditions till death do you part.....Anyone can quote scripture and tell people what god thinks about divorce, and how you should just do this and just do that, but Put yourself in that persons shoes.... what would you do if every day you woke up... afraid to talk, cause you might say the wrong thing... or afraid to move cause you might get in his way afraid to breathe to loud cause it would make him mad.. then that would set off the gettin choked slapped, thrown into things, gettin beat up in front of your child or children, while all they can do is stand there screaming...... what would you do if you had no where to go, no money, most if not all abusive men cut you off completely, from your friends your family.. so that you are completely isolated.... ... what do you do??? do you tell that woman who has come to see you with bruises all over her begging for advice or a way out... im sorry Matthew 19:9 says, and i say unto you, who so ever shall put away his wife except it be for fornication, and shall marry another committeth adultery: and who so marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery....

 

[BLC]

I understand your points and they are good ones. I personally don't think it would be wise for the man to divorce his second wife. Why would you want to add sin to sin? We have a God who can redeem. God told Jeremiah that He was the God of all flesh, 'is there anything to hard for me' (Jer 32:27), especially if there is children involved in the second marriage. Look at all the wretched lives that God has redeemed man from. The many complicated reasons for couples that split up and end in divorce vary so much. I understand about becoming one flesh and the problems surrounding that. The history of the old man Adam has so many lines grooved into the soul of man that sometimes we follow grooves and make some terrible decisions. Look at all of the things of the flesh that are in the world and dealt with outside of God's counsel. I believe the prodigal son of (Luke 15) is an illustration of a man that went and spent all he had on riotous living, but God was going to restore and redeem him to his rightful position as a son. He lost nothing when he came back. He got the ring, the best robe, the shoes and the fatted calf. He was restored and redeemed by the father and he rejoiced with the members of his household that his son was dead but is alive again (Luke 15:25,32).

I believe with all my heart that God is our great Redeemer and we see throughout the scriptures the power of His redemption. God can take a situation and a wicked people that are rebellious and unfaithful and somehow uses His mercy and grace to redeem and reconcile all of it to Himself. Look at how many times that He has done that for us, when we were enemies and were alienated by wicked works. I want to always see the restoration of God's redemption at work instead of the consequences of bad decisions. We are all showcases of His eternal redemption.

 

[MahogonySnail]

tough question, but who is in adultery really depends on if the two other people involved, the new husband and new wife, let's asume that all parties had been married before and divorced and none were divorced due to fornication, then all parties would be committing adultery, as far as restoring this person back into the fold they could continue to come to church but we shouldn't let them join the Church if we know they are living in sin, and under no way should they be allowed to hold any office or ministry in the Church.

I really think it is wrong for this attitude by religious leaders , that people must remain married except for adultery. So a woman has to stay married to a guy who beats her, rapes her, throws acid on her face? (in extreme examples). For a start, note that Jesus is talking about a specific situation that the Pharisees were doing, called "putting away their wives", for whatever reason they fancied. Jesus was not making a blanket rule that no one can divorce except for adultery. If Jesus was asked (and scripture doesn't say he was), "what about an abusive husband", I am sure he would say "yes they may divorce in that situation too". That is the common sense approach, and since when did Jesus say we could act like a Pharisee and impose harsh rules on marriages, at the expense of mercy. We're supposed to be Christians not Pharisees.

Being violent to your wife or wife being violent to her husband (let's not discriminate gender-wise) is as much a breaking of the marital vows as committing adultery. So many religious leaders focus on the "til death do us part", and do not mention "love and to cherish". What is more important here, to stay married based on faulty misinterpretation of Jesus's teachings on divorce (actually, more strictly, "putting away" ), "until death do us part", or to "love and to cherish"?. I believe the full marital vow is something like "love and to cherish, until death do us part".

 

[MahogonySnail]

I find it ironic that Christianity today has become harsher, more rigid and more rule or law-based than the Judaism that it came from. In Judaism a person could divorce for a variety of reasons. In Christianity, it is only one - adultery. Another example is tithing. In Judaism, the poor didn't have to tithe, and not everyone had to tithe. In Christianity, many make a rule that you must tithe, no matter how poor you are, and God will bless you. I find these two topics offensive to Christ's mission to free the oppressed, not oppress them further . Even unbelievers who don't know God have more mercy and love than these churchse in christianity, they can tell that it's wrong for any person to be forced to stay in an abusive relationship, and they also know its wrong to take money from poor people. That's their God-given conscience working there and it's unfortunate that as Christians we often prefer to lay down the law based on what the good book says, rather than follow the same God-given conscience.

 

[Thaddaeus]

I was in an abusive marriage for years..... I knew in my head it was wrong to divorce unless one of us had an affair.... .. i would talk to my dad (who is a pastor) and also the pastor of the church we were goin to, and various other christian marriage counselors and they would all say the same thing till death do you part... just keep praying holly... just trust god for your marriage..... meanwhile at home im gettin pushed down stairs and lockin myself in anyroom praying to god he doesnt bust the door down and find me..... but still i was told to stay... to not give up on him.. to keep trusting that god would save him.....thaddaeus, i see where you are coming from when you say the two should seperate until the other gets their act together.... but what if there wasnt some where for one of the people to go?? I mean where do you think they would stay at?? sometimes that isnt always an option..I know for myself... there was literally no where for me and my daughter to go... unless i wanted us to sleep on the street.....and he sure wasnt gonna leave "his house" I realize what god says in the bible about divorce.. but i do not believe god would also want us to live in those conditions till death do you part.....Anyone can quote scripture and tell people what god thinks about divorce, and how you should just do this and just do that, but Put yourself in that persons shoes.... what would you do if every day you woke up... afraid to talk, cause you might say the wrong thing... or afraid to move cause you might get in his way afraid to breathe to loud cause it would make him mad.. then that would set off the gettin choked slapped, thrown into things, gettin beat up in front of your child or children, while all they can do is stand there screaming...... what would you do if you had no where to go, no money, most if not all abusive men cut you off completely, from your friends your family.. so that you are completely isolated.... ... what do you do??? do you tell that woman who has come to see you with bruises all over her begging for advice or a way out... im sorry Matthew 19:9 says, and i say unto you, who so ever shall put away his wife except it be for fornication, and shall marry another committeth adultery: and who so marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery....

you had a father who was a pastor and a pastor where you went to Church at and none of them knew of a womans shelter anywhere, or your own dad wouldn't get you out of that situation by letting you move in with Him. I live in a double wide mobile home, my 22 year old son who is out of a job, lives with us, My 18 year old daughter and her husband and their 14 month old daughter also lives with us, and if you had come to me with your problem I would have found you room in my own home somewhere. and would had sit down with you and your Husband and told him look if you don't get your act straighten out you are going to lose your family, you need to get some professional help.
I am having to bite my tongue to keep from saying this, but if your story is true, and neither pastor helped you out, maybe your husband wasn't the only one abusing you.

 

[Thaddaeus]

I understand your points and they are good ones. I personally don't think it would be wise for the man to divorce his second wife. Why would you want to add sin to sin? We have a God who can redeem. God told Jeremiah that He was the God of all flesh, 'is there anything to hard for me' (Jer 32:27), especially if there is children involved in the second marriage. Look at all the wretched lives that God has redeemed man from. The many complicated reasons for couples that split up and end in divorce vary so much. I understand about becoming one flesh and the problems surrounding that. The history of the old man Adam has so many lines grooved into the soul of man that sometimes we follow grooves and make some terrible decisions. Look at all of the things of the flesh that are in the world and dealt with outside of God's counsel. I believe the prodigal son of (Luke 15) is an illustration of a man that went and spent all he had on riotous living, but God was going to restore and redeem him to his rightful position as a son. He lost nothing when he came back. He got the ring, the best robe, the shoes and the fatted calf. He was restored and redeemed by the father and he rejoiced with the members of his household that his son was dead but is alive again (Luke 15:25,32).

I believe with all my heart that God is our great Redeemer and we see throughout the scriptures the power of His redemption. God can take a situation and a wicked people that are rebellious and unfaithful and somehow uses His mercy and grace to redeem and reconcile all of it to Himself. Look at how many times that He has done that for us, when we were enemies and were alienated by wicked works. I want to always see the restoration of God's redemption at work instead of the consequences of bad decisions. We are all showcases of His eternal redemption.

Because if the cause for divorce was not for fornification, then everytime you make love with your new spouse you are sinning so which one is greater, do one more sin and divorce the second spouse, or live in sin for the rest of your life, you make the call

 

[jaylynn83]

if my story is true.... thats insulting..........he is my step dad, and has never really had a liking for me.... and he always told me he wouldnt ever get into the business of my marriage... and he was exactly right about that, he only tried once to talk to my ex husband once and things didnt turn out to well obviously..... not everyone is like you... not everyone is nice like that..... And my other pastor told me i should just keep prayin and believing for a miracle... ..... cant understand all of that to this day

 

[Thaddaeus]

I find it ironic that Christianity today has become harsher, more rigid and more rule or law-based than the Judaism that it came from. In Judaism a person could divorce for a variety of reasons. In Christianity, it is only one - adultery. Another example is tithing. In Judaism, the poor didn't have to tithe, and not everyone had to tithe. In Christianity, many make a rule that you must tithe, no matter how poor you are, and God will bless you. I find these two topics offensive to Christ's mission to free the oppressed, not oppress them further . Even unbelievers who don't know God have more mercy and love than these churchse in christianity, they can tell that it's wrong for any person to be forced to stay in an abusive relationship, and they also know its wrong to take money from poor people. That's their God-given conscience working there and it's unfortunate that as Christians we often prefer to lay down the law based on what the good book says, rather than follow the same God-given conscience.

we didn't say this about divorce we are just quoting scripture it was Jesus that said it , so take it up with Him the next time you two talk, as far as titheing I don't preach titheing for the new teastament Church, but I think if you were poor you could sacrifice a dove instead of a lamb but you still had to sacrifice something. I am really starting to know how God must feel everytime someone twisted His Word , because a lot of people in here are really good at twisting someone's word

 

[MahogonySnail]

Thaddeus you are probably one of the good pastors but there are people who would believe a woman must stay with the husband even if she is being beaten that's what I was addressing not you in particular. The thing is I believe God did reveal to me that this teaching on adultery is concerning a particular case of the pharisees practice of "putting away" wives. Understand the context and history and situation that Jesus was referring to. How can anyone force two people to stay together "just because the bible says", when neither of them are faithful to each other. And I believe abuse in a relationship is being unfaithful as much as committing adultery. Same with tithing I used to believe in it until God showed me otherwise.

 

[jaylynn83]

Thaddeus you are probably one of the good pastors but there are people who would believe a woman must stay with the husband even if she is being beaten that's what I was addressing not you in particular. The thing is I believe God did reveal to me that this teaching on adultery is concerning a particular case of the pharisees practice of "putting away" wives. Understand the context and history and situation that Jesus was referring to. How can anyone force two people to stay together "just because the bible says", when neither of them are faithful to each other. And I believe abuse in a relationship is being unfaithful as much as committing adultery. Same with tithing I used to believe in it until God showed me otherwise.

its easy not to believe in tithing when your broke.....

 

[missy2shoes]

I was in an abusive marriage for years..... I knew in my head it was wrong to divorce unless one of us had an affair.... .. i would talk to my dad (who is a pastor) and also the pastor of the church we were goin to, and various other christian marriage counselors and they would all say the same thing till death do you part... just keep praying holly... just trust god for your marriage..... meanwhile at home im gettin pushed down stairs and lockin myself in anyroom praying to god he doesnt bust the door down and find me..... but still i was told to stay... to not give up on him.. to keep trusting that god would save him.....thaddaeus, i see where you are coming from when you say the two should seperate until the other gets their act together.... but what if there wasnt some where for one of the people to go?? I mean where do you think they would stay at?? sometimes that isnt always an option..I know for myself... there was literally no where for me and my daughter to go... unless i wanted us to sleep on the street.....and he sure wasnt gonna leave "his house" I realize what god says in the bible about divorce.. but i do not believe god would also want us to live in those conditions till death do you part.....Anyone can quote scripture and tell people what god thinks about divorce, and how you should just do this and just do that, but Put yourself in that persons shoes.... what would you do if every day you woke up... afraid to talk, cause you might say the wrong thing... or afraid to move cause you might get in his way afraid to breathe to loud cause it would make him mad.. then that would set off the gettin choked slapped, thrown into things, gettin beat up in front of your child or children, while all they can do is stand there screaming...... what would you do if you had no where to go, no money, most if not all abusive men cut you off completely, from your friends your family.. so that you are completely isolated.... ... what do you do??? do you tell that woman who has come to see you with bruises all over her begging for advice or a way out... im sorry Matthew 19:9 says, and i say unto you, who so ever shall put away his wife except it be for fornication, and shall marry another committeth adultery: and who so marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery....

*hugs* Holly.....that would not have been an easy situation to find yourself in

 

[jaylynn83]

no it wasnt..... but praise god im here and no longer there! love ya girl!

 

[missy2shoes]

Amen to that!!!!......right back at ya

 

[jaylynn83]

lol now you sound like me!!!

 

[missy2shoes]

SNAP lol...............