Water Baptism-What is in a Name?

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ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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Each of records do specifically reference Jesus. And church history, etc. publications note all baptisms were done in the name of Jesus prior to the 4th century.
Fair enough. Please show me then one example in the New Testament where these words are recorded: "I now baptize you in the name of Jesus"; or Jesus Christ, or the Lord Jesus. Just one example will do and I'll admit I was wrong.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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If this were true, why isn't baptism administered both ways in the Bible?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Keep in mind that Jesus Yeshua, since His resurrection, is the same as the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, read Isaiah 9:6
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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Fair enough. Please show me then one example in the New Testament where these words are recorded: "I now baptize you in the name of Jesus"; or Jesus Christ, or the Lord Jesus. Just one example will do and I'll admit I was wrong.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Keep in mind that Jesus Yeshua, since His resurrection, is the same as the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, read Isaiah 9:6
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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This is the error in understanding and those who choose to be legalists in water baptism.




When Jesus said all "POWER," the word in Greek is exousia, which contextually means Authority.

Matthew 28:18

Jesus says:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

Who gave him the Power? Jesus said His Father did.

Jesus said, GO, I am sending, and my authority is from the Father.
The Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit

Jesus spoke of and taught about the Father and the Holy Spirit during his earthly Ministry. To suggest Jesus would not mention baptizing in the name or by the power or the authority of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

It was a big error when Jesus taught of Each In all three Gospels.

And to use ONE Verse in Mathew chapter 28 as if there is no other text to speak other wises is ridiculous.


Baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is valid baptism, as is baptism in Jesus' Name.

Unless you deny the Father and the Holy Spirit. Because the Lord Jesus did not deny them.
It's all about obedience. Note the following:

Jesus told His apostles to baptize in the NAME of... (Matt. 28:19)
The apostles obeyed Jesus by baptizing everyone in the name of Jesus. Why? Because in Jesus dwells all of the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (Col. 2:9)
Scripture reveals that everything is to be done in the name of Jesus. (Col. 3:17) So why the strong resistance to the use of His name in water baptism?

Lastly, forerunners of the RCC began the tradition. The only denomination that openly rebels against the use of the name Jesus. And not just in regards to water baptism. Everything they do in word and deed is done using the phrase Father, Son and Holy Ghost. So why other denominations follow their lead is mind boggling. And furthermore, Jesus is no longer on the cross! He is risen. And the very fact that He is risen is why water baptism for remission of sin is to be done in His name; the name above all names!
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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That is TOTALLY FALSE. All the Greek manuscripts concur that Matthew 28:19 is genuine Scripture. It was not altered by anyone. So let me quote from the Greek Orthodox Bibles (which have nothing to do with the Roman Catholic Church) as well as the Received Text.
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Πορευθέντες μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος·

Greek Orthodox Church 1904
πορευθέντες μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου Πνεύματος,


Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος·


Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος


Christians have a solemn responsibility to present the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Even the Critical Text has the same words:

Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος,
I did not say Matthew 28:19 was not genuine Scripture! What I said was Jesus gave the command to baptize in the NAME of... And the apostles obeyed Him. Both the apostles and history reveal that the NAME being referred to is Jesus.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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It's all about obedience. Note the following:

Jesus told His apostles to baptize in the NAME of... (Matt. 28:19)
The apostles obeyed Jesus by baptizing everyone in the name of Jesus. Why? Because in Jesus dwells all of the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (Col. 2:9)
Scripture reveals that everything is to be done in the name of Jesus. (Col. 3:17) So why the strong resistance to the use of His name in water baptism?

Lastly, forerunners of the RCC began the tradition. The only denomination that openly rebels against the use of the name Jesus. And not just in regards to water baptism. Everything they do in word and deed is done using the phrase Father, Son and Holy Ghost. So why other denominations follow their lead is mind boggling. And furthermore, Jesus is no longer on the cross! He is risen. And the very fact that He is risen is why water baptism for remission of sin is to be done in His name; the name above all names!
I think they all think you are the one arguing baptism should be done in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit 😊

All tho I know your not
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Fair enough. Please show me then one example in the New Testament where these words are recorded: "I now baptize you in the name of Jesus"; or Jesus Christ, or the Lord Jesus. Just one example will do and I'll admit I was wrong.
There are detailed records of baptisms in the name of Jesus. BUT NONE that speak of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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There are detailed records of baptisms in the name of Jesus.
No there aren't, not in the New Testament anyway. The fact that you can't produce one testifies to the fact I'm right. There's a big difference between someone saying: "There was a big race Friday night and the announcer called the winners"; and, "We were at the races Friday night and heard the announcer call the winners: First place Mr. Speed, second place Speed Racer, and third place Lickety-split.

The fact is we don't know the actual words that were said for any baptisms recorded in the New Testament. We have descriptions: they were baptized in the name of Jesus. But what does that mean? You assume it means the person baptizing them said: "I baptize you in the name of Jesus." But that's only an inference. The fact is we don't know what actual words, if any were said; at least not from the New Testament.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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The issue, brother, is they only use one to two verses to build this doctrine at the expense of all Gospels.
That is an error.
Your take on the topic is interesting. Actually those who defend the use of the phrase in water baptism point to one verse; Matthew 28:19. While not one of the detailed accounts of baptism in the Acts of the Apostles mentions Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Yet those who point out Jesus said to use a name, and that all baptisms were done in the name of Jesus are accused of building a false doctrine.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Keep in mind that Jesus Yeshua, since His resurrection, is the same as the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, read Isaiah 9:6
Matt. 28:19: Jesus gave the command to baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38: Peter OBEYED Jesus' command. He baptized everyone in the NAME of Jesus Christ...
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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No there aren't, not in the New Testament anyway. The fact that you can't produce one testifies to the fact I'm right. There's a big difference between someone saying: "There was a big race Friday night and the announcer called the winners"; and, "We were at the races Friday night and heard the announcer call the winners: First place Mr. Speed, second place Speed Racer, and third place Lickety-split.

The fact is we don't know the actual words that were said for any baptisms recorded in the New Testament. We have descriptions: they were baptized in the name of Jesus. But what does that mean? You assume it means the person baptizing them said: "I baptize you in the name of Jesus." But that's only an inference. The fact is we don't know what actual words, if any were said; at least not from the New Testament.
It was Jesus who was crucified for the sins of all mankind. And in baptism we are buried with Him. (Rom. 6:3-6)
Scripture does reference Jesus' name was used in baptism. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Clearly we disagree.
 

ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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Scripture does reference Jesus' name was used in baptism. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Clearly we disagree.
We disagree on what constitutes clear instructions and what is only inference.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Your take on the topic is interesting. Actually those who defend the use of the phrase in water baptism point to one verse; Matthew 28:19. While not one of the detailed accounts of baptism in the Acts of the Apostles mentions Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Yet those who point out Jesus said to use a name, and that all baptisms were done in the name of Jesus are accused of building a false doctrine.

Are you denying the Father and the Holy Spirit? Because Jesus did not do that. HE taught both, spoke of both, and established where His authority came from.

The fact that some make Baptism more about Salvation is interesting Because Jesus Never said salvation comes from being baptized or suggesting it.

John 3:16-20 Never mentioned Baptism in context to salvation.

Roman chapter 10:9-11 Never mentions baptism for salvation.



John 14:6

6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


Jesus had a great opportunity to say here water baptism is needed.

FYI dead men can't obey.

Baptism is done by those who obey and must be alive to do so. They are regenerated, saved, and Born again.

Baptism, as Paul received from the Lord, read Roman chapters 6 -8, is symbolic of a grave where one old self Died and a new life in Christ is alive. The water represents the grave. And a life dead because of sin and is no more.

"Reckon": it to be so because it is so.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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It was Jesus who was crucified for the sins of all mankind. And in baptism we are buried with Him. (Rom. 6:3-6)
Scripture does reference Jesus' name was used in baptism. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Clearly we disagree.
Jesus was crucified and died literally. Baptism is not literally buried it is symbolic. All must come through the cross experience before water baptism.


There are people who have been water baptized yet are not saved because they wanted to be baptized because mommy or daddy was.

Yet there are people who came to Jesus from conviction of their sin and repented and had a meeting at the cross who were saved yet not water baptized.

Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, and faith in that is what saves you. Baptism is publicly stating you are obedient to that truth.

In obedience to Christ, we get baptized. AS he was Baptized.
 
Dec 18, 2023
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Jesus was crucified and died literally. Baptism is not literally buried it is symbolic. All must come through the cross experience before water baptism.


There are people who have been water baptized yet are not saved because they wanted to be baptized because mommy or daddy was.

Yet there are people who came to Jesus from conviction of their sin and repented and had a meeting at the cross who were saved yet not water baptized.

Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, and faith in that is what saves you. Baptism is publicly stating you are obedient to that truth.

In obedience to Christ, we get baptized. AS he was Baptized.
God's word says you have to be baptised
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

4 “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked.
“Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”


5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born
of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7 Do not be amazed
that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you
do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”


Some take being born of water to mean the amniotic fluid of physical birth. I don't.

Jesus made a pretty clear distinction between physical water and the water that represents God's Word
which cleanses. Many seem to reject this understanding, despite our being told that water baptism is
the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. One is saved via repentance and belief, regardless of
whether or not one is water baptized, whereas it cannot be said that water baptism apart from faith
and belief holds any value whatsoever in terms of salvation. We are children of God through faith.
Jesus had John baptize Him in order to fulfill all righteous. Did Christ fulfill all righteousness?
I believe He did. We put on Christ's righteousness through faith in His shed righteous blood.


Water baptism is so important that Jesus personally baptized a grand total of zero people in
water. So important that the greatest apostle of them all was glad he water baptized so few.
Does this mean it is not important at all? No! But salvation does not depend on it.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

4 “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked.
“Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”


5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born
of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7 Do not be amazed
that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you
do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”


Some take being born of water to mean the amniotic fluid of physical birth. I don't.

Jesus made a pretty clear distinction between physical water and the water that represents God's Word
which cleanses. Many seem to reject this understanding, despite our being told that water baptism is
the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. One is saved via repentance and belief, regardless of
whether or not one is water baptized, whereas it cannot be said that water baptism apart from faith
and belief holds any value whatsoever in terms of salvation. We are children of God through faith.
Jesus had John baptize Him in order to fulfill all righteous. Did Christ fulfill all righteousness?
I believe He did. We put on Christ's righteousness through faith in His shed righteous blood.
Water baptism is so important that Jesus personally baptized a grand total of zero people in
water. So important that the greatest apostle of them all was glad he water baptized so few.
Does this mean it is not important at all? No! But salvation does not depend on it.
God's word says you have to be baptised