Eastern Orthodoxy is not Talmud Pharisaism (Mishnaism).

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Thanks for the answer FINALLY. I'll do some research on whether other EOC or RCC members ask repose members of their congregations for their prayers...but anyhoot...

Now we get on to these guys you call saints. You have already admitted that ONLY GOD knows who's a saint or not. Ok, you wanna CALL these guys saints...I got no problem with that...but you wanna talk to them!

How do you know Basil is a saint? You could be talking to a dead guy (necromancy). Do you really wanna risk that?

Bump for Scott...

Are you staying or going?

If your staying then answer the questions.
 
I clicked on this thread thinking I'd learn something about the Eastern Orthodoxy and go away thinking it was a cult, not because of its opposition in here, but because of it's supporters...

How weird is that?
 
Strangelove said:
Thanks for the answer FINALLY. I'll do some research on whether other EOC or RCC members ask repose members of their congregations for their prayers...but anyhoot...

Now we get on to these guys you call saints. You have already admitted that ONLY GOD knows who's a saint or not. Ok, you wanna CALL these guys saints...I got no problem with that...but you wanna talk to them!

How do you know Basil is a saint? You could be talking to a dead guy (necromancy). Do you really wanna risk that?

Bump for Scott...

Are you staying or going?

If your staying then answer the questions.
Click to expand...

Scott, this post is the next in our debate.
 
Thanks for the answer FINALLY. I'll do some research on whether other EOC or RCC members ask repose members of their congregations for their prayers...but anyhoot...

Now we get on to these guys you call saints. You have already admitted that ONLY GOD knows who's a saint or not. Ok, you wanna CALL these guys saints...I got no problem with that...but you wanna talk to them!

How do you know Basil is a saint? You could be talking to a dead guy (necromancy). Do you really wanna risk that?

Bump for Scott...

Are you staying or going?

If your staying then answer the questions.
 
Strangelove said:
Thanks for the answer FINALLY. I'll do some research on whether other EOC or RCC members ask repose members of their congregations for their prayers...but anyhoot...

Now we get on to these guys you call saints. You have already admitted that ONLY GOD knows who's a saint or not. Ok, you wanna CALL these guys saints...I got no problem with that...but you wanna talk to them!

How do you know Basil is a saint? You could be talking to a dead guy (necromancy). Do you really wanna risk that?

Bump for Scott...

Are you staying or going?

If your staying then answer the questions.
Click to expand...
Dear strangelove, When I say that only God knows who is a saint, I am only speaking for myself. I myself do not have the right or role to determine who is or who is not a saint. It is for the Church to tell us (to tell me), who are the saints, and I trust the Church. That is where you and I differ. You apparently trust your own private interpretations. Me, I don't look at myself as an authority on anything. Also, I don't misrepresent my nationality. You may think it trivial, but it is a flaw in your attitude to be so flippant about this. Freedom is rare in the world, and the USA has freedom hard one through much blood and conflict. Anyway, I hope you live in a nation where you can feel free from persecution. I could understand why you keep changing nationalities if you are on the run from people who wish to harm you. As for me: I wish you no harm. Perhaps I totally misunderstand your motives. Forgive me if I'm not fair. I just think it's wrong to keep changing flags every so often. After all, we can't have multiple citizenships. Christians are to be good citizens of all the nations.
I just don't understand how you fail to have insight into yourself that something is a cult and sect merely because you choose to call it so. Not with good reason. Your knowledge of church history is inadequate. My knowledge of church history is barely adequate, but I do know enough to know I can trust what is being said about church history by good, friendly former Protestants like Rev. Peter E. Gillquist. He, as I do, sees much good in Protestantism, but that does not mean it is beyond criticism where it seriously errs. And Protestantism seriously errs in its doctrine of private interpretation of sola scriptura. Meaning the Bible can be made to mean and to say anything an individual private Protestant Christian wants the Bible to say and to mean.
God bless you. In Erie Scott

 
Scotth1960 said:
Dear strangelove, When I say that only God knows who is a saint, I am only speaking for myself. I myself do not have the right or role to determine who is or who is not a saint. It is for the Church to tell us (to tell me), who are the saints, and I trust the Church. That is where you and I differ. You apparently trust your own private interpretations. Me, I don't look at myself as an authority on anything. Also, I don't misrepresent my nationality. You may think it trivial, but it is a flaw in your attitude to be so flippant about this. Freedom is rare in the world, and the USA has freedom hard one through much blood and conflict. Anyway, I hope you live in a nation where you can feel free from persecution. I could understand why you keep changing nationalities if you are on the run from people who wish to harm you. As for me: I wish you no harm. Perhaps I totally misunderstand your motives. Forgive me if I'm not fair. I just think it's wrong to keep changing flags every so often. After all, we can't have multiple citizenships. Christians are to be good citizens of all the nations.
I just don't understand how you fail to have insight into yourself that something is a cult and sect merely because you choose to call it so. Not with good reason. Your knowledge of church history is inadequate. My knowledge of church history is barely adequate, but I do know enough to know I can trust what is being said about church history by good, friendly former Protestants like Rev. Peter E. Gillquist. He, as I do, sees much good in Protestantism, but that does not mean it is beyond criticism where it seriously errs. And Protestantism seriously errs in its doctrine of private interpretation of sola scriptura. Meaning the Bible can be made to mean and to say anything an individual private Protestant Christian wants the Bible to say and to mean.
God bless you. In Erie Scott
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The problem with what you've just said though is you can take traditions of men like you find all over in the EO and Catholic churches that contradict the scriptures, regardless of your belief in sola scriptura, you can't take a tradition and apply it to your faith if it contradicts what is written.

The written and inspired scriptures trump all tradition and all historic references for early 'church fathers'.

That's why a lot of people have a problem with the EO and Catholic churches. They practice traditions which are condemned in the scriptures and make up some fancy wording in an attempt to legitimize their traditions.
 
Scotth1960 said:
When I say that only God knows who is a saint, I am only speaking for myself. I myself do not have the right or role to determine who is or who is not a saint. It is for the Church to tell us (to tell me), who are the saints, and I trust the Church. That is where you and I differ.
Click to expand...

Yes that is where we differ.

You trust MEN enough to risk NECROMANCY.

Why not just NOT risk it? It is an abomination to the Lord, and theres a good chance that you practice this abomination.

There is no command to pray to saints. Therefore we dont need to.

By doing so, and trying to ensnare others ito yor sect that practices this, is to bring people into danger.

All from a matter of trust of MEN.

(Deuteronomy 18:10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

(Deuteronomy 18:11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

(Deuteronomy 18:12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
 
Scotth1960 said:
Dear strangelove, When I say that only God knows who is a saint, I am only speaking for myself. I myself do not have the right or role to determine who is or who is not a saint. It is for the Church to tell us (to tell me), who are the saints, and I trust the Church. That is where you and I differ.
Click to expand...

What is the difference between you and your church fathers? What makes them any more infallible than you?

Wouldn't you agree that a cult is defined as diverging from God and replacing Him with what men teach? Like the Halleys comet people, Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc... I'm not saying your church has diverged as much as those, I'm just saying be careful. How does the bible put it? Come out of her, my people.

God Bless You
 
NitzWalsh said:
The problem with what you've just said though is you can take traditions of men like you find all over in the EO and Catholic churches that contradict the scriptures, regardless of your belief in sola scriptura, you can't take a tradition and apply it to your faith if it contradicts what is written.

The written and inspired scriptures trump all tradition and all historic references for early 'church fathers'.

That's why a lot of people have a problem with the EO and Catholic churches. They practice traditions which are condemned in the scriptures and make up some fancy wording in an attempt to legitimize their traditions.
Click to expand...

The bold faced part is what I want to draw attention to. Your statement is not true unless one accepts the premise of Sola Scriptura. For the EO and the RCC Scripture and Tradition are two parts of the same thing, both equal and both required. Also I would be quick to point out that we only seem to be practicing traditions that contradict scripture when scripture is interpreted in a Protestant manner.

Finally, if what we were practicing was "clearly against the plain teaching of the Bible" I would think that someone would have figured that out sooner than 1500 years after the fact.
 
SantoSubito said:
Finally, if what we were practicing was "clearly against the plain teaching of the Bible" I would think that someone would have figured that out sooner than 1500 years after the fact.
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Haha. Like when Moses was gone for 40 days and Aaron had the people worshipping a golden calf? Someone definitely should have caught that one before Moses came back...
 
SantoSubito said:
The bold faced part is what I want to draw attention to. Your statement is not true unless one accepts the premise of Sola Scriptura. For the EO and the RCC Scripture and Tradition are two parts of the same thing, both equal and both required. Also I would be quick to point out that we only seem to be practicing traditions that contradict scripture when scripture is interpreted in a Protestant manner.

Finally, if what we were practicing was "clearly against the plain teaching of the Bible" I would think that someone would have figured that out sooner than 1500 years after the fact.
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You can't tell me the Catholic church didn't suppress people and stomp people out, burning heretics at the stake and so on.

Now, if you want to go pre-1500's I can do that.

So I'll start with Peter. The RCC says that Peter was the first pope of what we call the Catholic Church now, he wasn't though, you say that Peter is the Rock that the church is built on, but in Acts Chapter 4 Peter says that Jesus is the stone at the head of the corner... the corner stone... and what is a corner stone? a corner stone is the rock that something is built upon. Psalm 118:22 covers that too.

So, the Bible shows that Peter knew Jesus was the rock the church was built upon. Now since the Catholic church has just lost its corner stone how can it stand? It can't.

If you want me to start bringing up everyone the Catholic church has burned as a heretic, or every pagan teaching that they absorbed as tradition I can start doing that, but since the Catholic church has no corner stone to stand on I don't think it's really necessary.
 
NitzWalsh said:
You can't tell me the Catholic church didn't suppress people and stomp people out, burning heretics at the stake and so on.

Now, if you want to go pre-1500's I can do that.

So I'll start with Peter. The RCC says that Peter was the first pope of what we call the Catholic Church now, he wasn't though, you say that Peter is the Rock that the church is built on, but in Acts Chapter 4 Peter says that Jesus is the stone at the head of the corner... the corner stone... and what is a corner stone? a corner stone is the rock that something is built upon. Psalm 118:22 covers that too.

So, the Bible shows that Peter knew Jesus was the rock the church was built upon. Now since the Catholic church has just lost its corner stone how can it stand? It can't.

If you want me to start bringing up everyone the Catholic church has burned as a heretic, or every pagan teaching that they absorbed as tradition I can start doing that, but since the Catholic church has no corner stone to stand on I don't think it's really necessary.
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To get to your main point. I can show you quite a few people that Protestants have burned or killed (like St. Thomas More), but that is neither here nor there as I can accuse of protestantism of similar atrocities, among which are the desecration of Catholic churches. But by all means show me what you think is pagan and I can show you how they are, in fact, Christian.
 
SantoSubito said:
To get to your main point. I can show you quite a few people that Protestants have burned or killed (like St. Thomas More), but that is neither here nor there as I can accuse of protestantism of similar atrocities, among which are the desecration of Catholic churches. But by all means show me what you think is pagan and I can show you how they are, in fact, Christian.
Click to expand...

I don't identify as protestant, so you can throw whatever you like at that.

I think I'll just list a few here that are not Christian at all that you'll probably come up with some excuses for.

Idol Worship
Assumption of Mary

Thinking Mary was a virgin until she died
Praying to the dead
Giving priests the title of Father
Thinking Peter was the Rock the church was built on

I'm sure you're fully convinced of these lies, but I'll still read your responses.
 
NitzWalsh said:
I don't identify as protestant, so you can throw whatever you like at that.
Click to expand...

Quite frankly it doesn't much matter what you identify as, what matters is what you believe. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

I think I'll just list a few here that are not Christian at all that you'll probably come up with some excuses for.

Idol Worship
Assumption of Mary

Thinking Mary was a virgin until she died
Praying to the dead
Giving priests the title of Father
Thinking Peter was the Rock the church was built on

I'm sure you're fully convinced of these lies, but I'll still read your responses.
Click to expand...

Seeing as these are age old assertions I'll post links to articles that address each of these issues.

1.Do Catholics Worship Statues?
2. Immaculate Conception and Assumption
3.Mary: Ever Virgin
4.Praying to the Saints
5.Call No Man "Father"?
6.Peter the Rock
 
SantoSubito said:
Quite frankly it doesn't much matter what you identify as, what matters is what you believe. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...



Seeing as these are age old assertions I'll post links to articles that address each of these issues.

1.Do Catholics Worship Statues?
2. Immaculate Conception and Assumption
3.Mary: Ever Virgin
4.Praying to the Saints
5.Call No Man "Father"?
6.Peter the Rock
Click to expand...

I'm going to go ahead and read each of those articles, I'll post what I have to say about them after I go through them all.
 
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