Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
What your missing is, it was the faith of Jesus that defeated death.
Incorrect-

The idea that Jesus' faithfulness, rather than the faith of individuals, defeated death is not directly supported by the provided search results.

The search results primarily discuss Jesus' resurrection as the event that demonstrates his victory over death and the implications of this victory for believers

J.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Incorrect-

The idea that Jesus' faithfulness, rather than the faith of individuals, defeated death is not directly supported by the provided search results.

The search results primarily discuss Jesus' resurrection as the event that demonstrates his victory over death and the implications of this victory for believers

J.
. Firstly you say this

it is not Jesus' faith that saves, but rather the individual's faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Are you now saying Jesus had no faith 🤔

i also see your back to using your red writing again, you really do make things hard for yourself.

Jesus defeated death.

whilst Jesus defeated death and atoned the blood of mankind, his faith stayed loyal until the end.

Jesus was even tempted as we are.

Are you now going to say faith does not save you to, because according to the four Gospels, Jesus expressed his faith 100s of times, as a high priest as a man and as the son of God.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
13,784
113
Imputed, given, upon...
Fail! You claimed that “the faith of Jesus Christ” is imputed to believers, but haven’t provided any relevant Scripture to support your claim. Changing from “imputed” to “given” or “upon” doesn’t fix your error.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
Fail! You claimed that “the faith of Jesus Christ” is imputed to believers, but haven’t provided any relevant Scripture to support your claim. Changing from “imputed” to “given” or “upon” doesn’t fix your error.
The righteousness of Christ is imputed to us.

2 Corinthians 5:21: "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

Romans 4:6: "Just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works."

Philippians 3:9: "And be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith."


These verses suggest that the righteousness of Christ is credited to believers through faith in Him, rather than through their own works or efforts. This concept of imputed righteousness emphasizes the idea that salvation is a gift of grace from God, rather than something that can be earned or achieved through human effort.

Overall, the idea that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to believers is a central tenet of Christian theology, emphasizing the importance of faith in Jesus Christ as the means of receiving salvation and being made righteous before God.

J.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
13,784
113
LOL, the faith of Jesus Christ is God's righteousness.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
That does not say that the righteousness of God IS the faith of Christ. It says that the righteousness of God is BY faith the faith of Christ. Those little words matter… pay more careful attention!
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,928
419
83
Its basically a letter to the Ephesus saints who had already believed in Christ.

Paul is simply saying to the Ephesus saints , you are in Christ because you believed . But now you must be blameless and without spots.

Obviously there must have been heresy going on.
Note carefully please....

"For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world
to be holy and blameless in His presence."


Ephesians 1:4​

When they have their resurrection bodies?
They will appear before the Lord both holy and blameless.

That is what all Christians have been chosen for....

Chosen for being "the Bride of Christ" who will be incomparably beautiful in His sight when we are in His presence!
For our resurrections bodies will be just like His glorious heavenly body!

grace and peace ..............
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,429
263
83
Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;



2) "But for them also which shall believe on me," (alla kai pari ton pisteuonton eis eime) "But also concerning the ones who are believing or trusting in me," and who shall believe in me hereafter; His prayers, earnest petition to the Father, reached forward in time to include you and me, and those who may yet believe.

3) "Through their word;" (dia tou logou auton) "Through the word of them," through their testimony of the truth-word, (eis eime) "by which they trusted in me," and have followed me, as my witnesses through my ministry, to this hour; Joh_15:26-27; Act_1:8; Act_10:41. This prayer affirms the future spread of truth, salvation of souls, and growth of the church, under the consecration and empowering on Pentecost, Act_1:8; Act_2:4.

However-

“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word” (John 17:20).

Most Bible commentaries maintain that the Lord was talking about you and me, and all of the other members of the Body of Christ who had not yet believed on Him at that time. The problem with this view is that you and I didn’t believe on Christ through the words of the twelve apostles. We believed on Him through the words of the Apostle Paul! Paul is the only biblical writer who presents salvation by grace through faith in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:25). If someone introduced you to Christ using the words of the twelve apostles, they had to read Paul’s gospel into their words, for he is the only biblical writer to preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as the gospel that must be believed in order to be saved (I Cor. 15:1-4).

So who were those who were saved through the word of the apostles? Well, the twelve preached their word at Pentecost, which tells us that those who believed through their word were all Jews, for they were the only people that Peter addressed on that day (Acts 2:14,22,36). So in praying for “them also which shall believe through their word,” the Lord was praying for future Jewish believers. Of course, this means that He had only Jewish believers in mind when He went on to pray for these future saints.

“That they all may be one…that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me” (John 17:21).

Here again, the commentaries all contend that the Lord was talking about us. After all, didn’t Paul say of Christ, “He is our peace, who hath made both one” (Eph. 2:14), speaking of how Jews and Gentiles were all “baptized into one body” (I Cor. 12:13). The commentaries insist that this is what the Lord had in mind when He prayed “that they all may be one.”

But we’ve already seen that this couldn’t be what the Lord had in mind, since those who believed on Him through the word of the apostles were all Jews. So why was He praying that the Jews might be made one?
Your argument is weak, with all due respect. In this instance, I have to agree with the preponderance of commentators, for your interpretation is unjustifiably too narrow for a few reasons. First of all, numerous Gentiles in apostolic times believed on Jesus through apostolic teaching. Did not Peter preach the gospel to Cornelius and his entire household -- in fact, a "large gathering of people" (Act 10:27) -- most likely all Gentiles. And what about Paul's ministry, primarily to the Gentiles? This apostle doesn't count? Jesus left him and all Gentile believers out of his prayer?

Are we also supposed to interpret Jn 10:16 in the same narrow vein, even though the text harmonizes quite nicely with Eph 2:14? And if we are to take it as narrowly as you do with Jesus' prayer, then this would present no small theological problem, since Jesus would in fact be saying in John 10 that he lays down his life for only Jews!

And why shouldn't the [catholic] Church on the whole also interpret the Great Commission (Mat 28:16-20) just as narrowly for that matter? After all, Jesus was talking "only" to the Eleven, right? The growth of the entire church was laid on 11 pairs of shoulders. Neither Paul or Judas' replacement (Matthias) were present when Jesus commissioned the Eleven. Has the historical, Evangelical Church also gotten get this commission all wrong for all these many centuries? Why did anyone go out and evangelize after the Eleven died? Or why does the Church train, support and send missionaries out all over the world, since Jesus was only addressing the Eleven?

Or what is your understanding of Act 1:8? Jesus, again, speaking only to his Jewish disciples told them that "YOU will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth"! Was Jesus serious? How in the world did his little band of disciples bear witness to Him throughout the entire world!? YOU, YOU, YOU -- no Gentile believers and no subsequent generations of Jewish believers after the Eleven died! Only YOU!

Things obviously get rather absurd when we fail to interpret passages in their broad context and don't properly apply scripture by extension, especially since it was always God's plan from the very beginning to save Jews and Gentiles. The promise to save the nations first appeared in kernel form in Gen 3:15 but more clearly appears in the Abrahamic Covenant, does it not? All the nations would be blessed by Abraham's "seed" (Christ!) Even the Father promised the Son directly that the nations would be given to Him (Isa 49:6; 52:10).

Therefore, in light of all this evidence, I maintain, along with the vast majority of evangelical commentators, that Christ's prayer to his Father in John 17 included Jews and Gentiles who would believe the gospel message of not only his first century disciples but all subsequent generations of disciples by extension. And this is how the gospel today has spread to virtually every nation under the sun. Jesus, in this New Covenant dispensation, was no respecter of persons in his prayer. But his prayer very clearly excluded the non-elect -- the world at large that is still in Adam and consists of the serpent's seed. Jesus' prayer was only for all those who were given to Him by the Father.

And one more thing before I forget: The nothern and southern kingdoms have not been united. That will only happen at the end of the age, which means Christ didn't pray at all for the Gentile church. According to you, he prayed only for first century Jews and for Jews at the end of the age when all things would be restored and there would be perfect unity. But Jesus wasn't concerned at all, apparently, for the billions of Gentiles who have come to believe on him throuhout all these centuries? That'a a huge horse pill to swallow.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
Note carefully please....

"For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world
to be holy and blameless in His presence."


Ephesians 1:4​

When they have their resurrection bodies?
They will appear before the Lord both holy and blameless.

That is what all Christians have been chosen for....

Chosen for being "the Bride of Christ" who will be incomparably beautiful in His sight when we are in His presence!
For our resurrections bodies will be just like His glorious heavenly body!

grace and peace ..............
Who is he saying he chose us to.

Paul speaks about being predestined a few times.

I only know one who has been chosen so far to stand before God the father, and thats Jesus Christ.

the holy people in the old t could not stand before God in the holy Tabernacle.

So whilst you think it may be one thing it could be something else.

It could actually be Paul was declaring he and who ever he was writing the letter to, had actually been chosen for something.

Why should it matter if it's not about anyone else.

Do you know how many people that letter was addressed to.

Can you really make all theese assumptions.

Because they where chosen to stand before God the father, may be they will may be they won't.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
LOL, the faith of Jesus Christ is God's righteousness.

Romans 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
I agree completely 😊
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
935
194
43
67
Australia
Jeremiah 17:9...the heart is the source of the problem. That's why God works from the inside out.
The source originates in the flesh. It enslaves the heart (mind) because it is ignorant of God and has no way of knowing God being as we are born spiritually dead. But grace comes along, controls the flesh and enlightens the mind so the heart is free to accept or reject the truth shown. This is why no-one is with excuse for the grace of God ensures everyone answers to Him of their own free will just as Adam and Eve did. Under Calvinism, those in the Lake of Fire have an excuse. "God didn't pick me"

If the heart were in constant opposition (like the flesh is) it would mean God has created us as evil creatures. We are born neither good nor evil but are a "blank slate" with regards to character. Good and evil must be learned. There are those who prefer evil. They like it and those who don't prefer evil will never understand them and they us. That is the mystery of evil.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,928
419
83
I don't disagree with anything here. But a propitiation satisfies some demand of an aggrieved party. God's wrath is what had to be satisfied. Thus the need for Christ, who being fully man could be our substitute, and fully God could atone for our sins.
But God doesn't forgive sins without exacting a payment for them. Otherwise, He would be unjust.
The 'fully God" side of Jesus was not bearing our sins. But His Deity within Him was being grieved like the Holy Spirit can withdraw fellowship and be grieved in us while we are sinning.

It was while He was bearing our sins that God had to cease all fellowship with the Soul of Jesus. For God can have no direct union with sin!

It was during the needed time of having all of man's sins being poured upon his body that He screamed out that God was forsaking Him.

"About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). Matthew 27:46​

Jesus was cut off from his deep fellowship with God for three hours.
The time of bearing the punishment for all mankind's sins.

That period of three hours of being cut off from God was agony and unbearably painful for Him.

Yet, like a lamb is silent before its shearers He did not make a sound while being beaten to a pulp and then nailed to a cross.


He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before
its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth." Isaiah 53:7


Its only when his fellowship with God was cut off because of the presence of our sins that he first began to scream out in agony!

All the horrible physical abuse he was subject to was easy to bear for him compared to when God needed to withdraw from him
on account of our sins.

We can be so superficial in understanding the spiritual death of Christ.
Some will make it into an intellectual exercise for debate while failing to see the impact it had on the Soul of Jesus.

The real pain? Separation from God.
Human torture and abuse? He remained silent.

grace and truth forever!
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
Your argument is weak, with all due respect. In this instance, I have to agree with the preponderance of commentators, for your interpretation is unjustifiably too narrow for a few reasons. First of all, numerous Gentiles in apostolic times believed on Jesus through apostolic teaching. Did not Peter preach the gospel to Cornelius and his entire household -- in fact, a "large gathering of people" (Act 10:27) -- most likely all Gentiles. And what about Paul's ministry, primarily to the Gentiles? This apostle doesn't count? Jesus left him and all Gentile believers out of his prayer?
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

11. εἰς τὰ ἴδια. The difference between neuter and masculine must be preserved: He came to His own inheritance; and His own people received Him not. In the parable of the Wicked Husbandmen (Mat_21:33-41) τὰ ἴδια is the vineyard; οἱ ἴδιοι are the husbandmen, the Chosen people, the Jews. Or, as in Joh_19:27, we may render εἰς τὰ ἴδια unto His own home: cf. Joh_16:32, Joh_19:27; Act_21:6; Est_5:10; Est_6:12. The tragic tone is very strong here, as in Joh_1:5; Joh_1:10.

Matthew 15:24 is a verse in the New Testament that suggests that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Other verses that suggest that the disciples were sent only to the Israelites include:

Matthew 10:5-6: "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: 'Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.'"

Romans 1:16: "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile."

Acts 13:46: "Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: 'We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.'"

These verses suggest that the disciples were primarily sent to the Israelites, with the message of salvation being offered to the Gentiles only after it had been offered to the Jews. However, it's important to note that the message of salvation was ultimately intended for all people, regardless of their ethnicity or background.

You have asked a lot of questions brother and space will not permit me to answer-who was the apostle to the Goyim?

Yes, Paul was known as the apostle to the Gentiles. He was specifically chosen by God to bring the message of salvation to the Gentiles, who were considered outsiders by the Jewish people. Paul himself referred to his ministry as being primarily focused on the Gentiles, and he spent much of his time traveling to different regions to preach the gospel to non-Jewish people.

In Romans 11:13, Paul calls himself "the apostle to the Gentiles."

He also writes in Galatians 2:7-8 that he had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised (Gentiles), while Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised (Jews).

Additionally, in Ephesians 3:1-12, Paul speaks of the mystery of Christ that had been revealed to him, which was that the Gentiles would be co-heirs with the Jews and part of the same body through the gospel.

A quick question-How many mysteries were given to Paul-and what are they?

Overall, Paul's ministry was instrumental in spreading the message of salvation to the Gentiles and helping to establish the early Christian church among non-Jewish people

And I concur-we need to be like Miles Coverdale and rightly divide the Scriptures. I am affiliated with the Berean Bible Society-so now I have given you ammunition to shoot down, in flames, Dispentational studies-but I am not here to score a point.

Hope my answer will suffice-12.09 AM in South Africa.

To Messiah be the glory.
J.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,928
419
83
Sorry but you ain't no preacher
For you I am not. That's for sure.

Because I do not make an appeal to human bias and ignorance that allows one to get emotional when one's willful ignorance is reinforced with erroneous teaching to make him feel justified in his wrong thinking....

A dime a dozen.
(Always dozing.)

This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
Ephesians 5:14​
.........
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,928
419
83
“How could believing in Jesus be saving oneself?”..

Believing in Jesus is revealing that you are a saved one.
That God has finished His work in you to redeem you.

grace and peace ..............
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
935
194
43
67
Australia
Some contemporary churches are billed as “seeker-friendly,” but the Bible says that “no one seeks God.” Psalm 14:2–3 pictures God searching in vain for even one heart that seeks Him: “The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.”

This passage is quoted in Romans 3:10–12, which says, “As it is written: ‘There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.’” So, if no one seeks God, who are the “seekers” that some churches strategize to attract? Plus, how are people saved if no one is seeking God?

First we must understand human nature.

Because of Adam’s disobedience in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:11), sin entered the world and became part of human existence. Because Adam is the common ancestor of every human being, we all inherit that sin nature. We are born with a natural desire for rebellion, self-interest, and disobedience. In Romans 7:18, Paul says, “For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.” In ourselves, we cannot seek after God, for the simple reason that seeking God is a good and holy thing. Sinful flesh is incapable of good and holy things (Isaiah 64:6).

Jesus said, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them” (John 6:44). In other words, the only way we can seek God is if the Holy Spirit has first stirred our hearts with a desire for God.

It is God who draws us to Himself. Ephesians 2:8 underscores this truth: “By grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God.” Even the faith to believe for salvation does not originate within our fleshly nature. God enables the fallen human heart to seek Him, when in our own self-centered rebellion we would never do so. Every good thing originates with God (James 1:17). Faith in God is a good thing, and so it also originates with God.

Even our best efforts fall far short of the righteousness required by God (Romans 3:23). That’s why Scripture says that no one seeks God. We seek fulfillment. We seek pleasure. We seek escape from pain.

But the pure motivation of seeking after God for Himself is a gift from God. We are not saved because we had the wisdom and insight to exercise our own faith and trust God. No one wakes up one day and, on his own, decides to seek God. That would be a salvation by our own works, and Scripture is clear we are saved only by the grace and mercy of God (Titus 3:5; Romans 11:6). We are saved when God touches our hearts and prompts us to use the faith He gives to receive His gift of salvation. Even with the knowledge of God’s existence everywhere, people naturally choose to “suppress the truth by their wickedness” (Romans 1:18–20).

Because no one naturally seeks God, God seeks us. He sought Adam and Eve as they hid in the Garden (Genesis 3:9), and He has been seeking His lost loved ones ever since. Jesus gave this as His mission statement: “The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost” (Luke 19:10).

When God saves us, we are born again. He opens our eyes to the truth; He gives us faith and forgiveness and fellowship with Him. We become new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). In our newness of life, we are given godly desires (Psalm 73:25), a cleansed heart (Hebrews 10:22), and a new mind (1 Corinthians 2:16). In the power of the Holy Spirit, we begin to truly seek after God.

The connection between our salvation and our seeking after God is illustrated in how God restored His people following the Babylonian captivity. The ancient Jews at first expected a speedy return to their homeland, but the prophet Jeremiah advised them to settle in: their captivity would last seventy years (Jeremiah 29:10). Lest His people despair at the thought of such a lengthy discipline, God assured them that His plans were to give them “hope and a future” (verse 11). At the appointed time, the Jews repented of their sins and began to cry to the Lord in sincerity and fervency. This is just what God had foretold: “You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you . . . and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you . . . and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile” (verses 13–14). The prophet Daniel exemplified this seeking after the Lord in his prayer on behalf of God’s people (Daniel 9:1–19).

https://www.gotquestions.org/seeks-God.html#:~:text=QUESTION-,What does it mean that no one seeks God?,-ANSWER

The natural volition/tendency of man is to NOT seek the Light-but run from it.
J.
See my post #590.

If you want more clarification, I'm happy to oblige. :)

No-one seeks God on their own merits. If we were left to our own devices, we would all be consumed. Thankfully the Lord is merciful. :)

Lamentations 3:22
Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
“How could believing in Jesus be saving oneself?”
Accepting Jesus is a fundamental concept in Christianity, and it is often associated with verses from the Bible. While the phrase "accepting Jesus" may not be explicitly mentioned in the Bible, the concept is supported by various verses. Some of the key verses that are often referenced in this context include:
  1. John 3:16 (ESV) - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
  2. Romans 10:9 (ESV) - "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
  3. Acts 2:38 (ESV) - "And Peter said to them, 'Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"
These verses emphasize the importance of belief, confession, and repentance in relation to salvation and acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior


. While the specific phrase "accepting Jesus" may not be found verbatim in the Bible, the concept is derived from these and other related passages.

J.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
See my post #590.

If you want more clarification, I'm happy to oblige. :)

No-one seeks God on their own merits. If we were left to our own devices, we would all be consumed. Thankfully the Lord is merciful. :)

Lamentations 3:22
Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not.
Lamentations 3:22 says, "Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not." This verse is a declaration of hope and trust in God's mercy and compassion, even in the midst of great suffering and despair.

The book of Lamentations was written by the prophet Jeremiah in response to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 586 BC. In this context, the verse emphasizes that it is only through God's mercy and compassion that the people of Israel were not completely destroyed. The phrase "His compassions fail not" means that God's compassion is never-ending and always available to those who seek it. This verse is a reminder that even in the darkest of times, God's love and mercy are present and available to those who turn to Him.

J.
 
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
For you I am not. That's for sure.

Because I do not make an appeal to human bias and ignorance that allows one to get emotional when one's willful ignorance is reinforced with erroneous teaching to make him feel justified in his wrong thinking....

A dime a dozen.
(Always dozing.)

This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
Ephesians 5:14​
.........
you can't rise from the dead until you rise with Christ, as confirmed here.


Acts 2:38

New International Version



38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
935
194
43
67
Australia
Lamentations 3:22 says, "Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not." This verse is a declaration of hope and trust in God's mercy and compassion, even in the midst of great suffering and despair.

The book of Lamentations was written by the prophet Jeremiah in response to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 586 BC. In this context, the verse emphasizes that it is only through God's mercy and compassion that the people of Israel were not completely destroyed. The phrase "His compassions fail not" means that God's compassion is never-ending and always available to those who seek it. This verse is a reminder that even in the darkest of times, God's love and mercy are present and available to those who turn to Him.

J.
They weren't seeking Him which is why they suffered. It was God's mercies that kept them from being wiped out. The writer is reflecting on how they are still going and realises it is God's mercy and compassion on people even when they are wrong, wrong, wrong!
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
212
43
See my post #590.

If you want more clarification, I'm happy to oblige. :)

No-one seeks God on their own merits. If we were left to our own devices, we would all be consumed. Thankfully the Lord is merciful. :)

Lamentations 3:22
Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;-

Eph 2:1 Καὶ Kai|G2532|Conj|And ὑμᾶς hymas|G4771|PPro-A2P|you, ὄντας ontas|G1510|V-PPA-AMP|being νεκροὺς nekrous|G3498|Adj-AMP|dead τοῖς tois|G3588|Art-DNP|in the παραπτώμασιν paraptōmasin|G3900|N-DNP|trespasses καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|and ταῖς tais|G3588|Art-DFP|the ἁμαρτίαις hamartiais|G266|N-DFP|sins ὑμῶν, hymōn|G4771|PPro-G2P|of you,


And you did he quicken (kai humās). The verb for did he quicken does not occur till Eph_2:5 and then with hēmās (us) instead of humās (you). There is a like ellipsis or anacoluthon in Col_1:21, Col_1:22, only there is no change from humās to hēmās.
When ye were dead (ontas nekrous). Present active participle referring to their/our former state. Spiritually dead.

dead -- Refers to being separated from God and under the rule of the evil one (see v. 2 and note). Paul’s use of the metaphor of death is significant, as it allows for no middle ground; a person is either dead or alive. - FSB


I'll stop right here and let the preponderance of text sink in.
J.