Are you all forgetting about the false propets? The correct argument is what does changing the terminology in the Wordvof God due to the correct message of the word God as Recorded in the original Hebrew and Aramaic? Open your bibles to ezekiel 13:20. Note the message was changed from souls to birds regarding what the false prophets were teaching. "hunt the souls to make them fly," is what God is against not birds. The reason to use the kJv as the authoritive Bible is because it is An exact duplicate of the septuagint translated to english. The Septuagint is the oldest completed set of books of God's Word. Older than the Masoretic Text. The deep sea scrolls was a fragmentation, not one book intact. The closest was isaiah which aligned with the septuagent. Every word in the kjv is mapped back to the original hebrew and aramic through the Septuagint as documented by James Strongs. All other english translations, except the Vulgate, source from the KJV And all the versions change the terminology. This does not mean you cannot be saved, but it does mean you can be deceived.
KJV Authoritive Christian Bible
- Thread starter Medad
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Of course everyone is deceived but you. LOL!!!
The KJV is not authoritative, and it is not an exact duplicate of the Septuagint (translated to English???) The Septuagint is the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew.
Of course, good translations do not depend on translations from the source languages, they use the source languages themselves.
Also, who is "James Strongs"? Are you referring to James Strong the American academic, biblical scholar, lexicographer, Methodist theologian and professor?
And claiming that all other English translations, except the Vulgate, source from the KJV And all the versions change the terminology is absurd. a) The vulgate is a late-4th-century Latin translation of the Bible and b) most translations most definitely do not "source from the KJV".
Modern translations are created directly from the most complete set of source documents available and are very careful to accurately translate their contents into modern English.
In summary, there are so many errors in your post that nobody should pay any attention to what you wrote.
The KJV is not authoritative, and it is not an exact duplicate of the Septuagint (translated to English???) The Septuagint is the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew.
Of course, good translations do not depend on translations from the source languages, they use the source languages themselves.
Also, who is "James Strongs"? Are you referring to James Strong the American academic, biblical scholar, lexicographer, Methodist theologian and professor?
And claiming that all other English translations, except the Vulgate, source from the KJV And all the versions change the terminology is absurd. a) The vulgate is a late-4th-century Latin translation of the Bible and b) most translations most definitely do not "source from the KJV".
Modern translations are created directly from the most complete set of source documents available and are very careful to accurately translate their contents into modern English.
In summary, there are so many errors in your post that nobody should pay any attention to what you wrote.
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The Complete Jewish Bible says this:
18 tell them that Adonai ELOHIM says, 'Woe to the women who sew magic pads for all arm joints and put veils over people of all sizes, in order to hunt human lives! Will you hunt down the lives of my people while you keep your own lives safe?
19 You dishonor me before my people for a few handfuls of barley and crumbs of bread, killing people who should not die and sparing those who should not live, by your lying to my people, who love hearing lies.'
20 Therefore here is what Adonai ELOHIM says: 'I am against your pads, with which you hunt human lives like birds; I will tear them from your arms and let the lives go, yes, the human lives that you hunt like birds.
21 I will also tear your veils and rescue my people from your clutches, so that they will no longer be in your power for you to hunt. Then you will know that I am ADONAI.
22 Because you have disheartened the righteous with your lies when I was not trying to cause them pain and have encouraged the wicked not to turn from their wicked ways and thus be saved,
23 therefore you will have no more futile visions, and you will produce no more divinations. I will rescue my people from your clutches, and you will know that I am ADONAI.'"
KJV says:
8And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
22Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
The few words that differ in spelling/pronunciation do not differ in meaning IMO.
Soooo
18 tell them that Adonai ELOHIM says, 'Woe to the women who sew magic pads for all arm joints and put veils over people of all sizes, in order to hunt human lives! Will you hunt down the lives of my people while you keep your own lives safe?
19 You dishonor me before my people for a few handfuls of barley and crumbs of bread, killing people who should not die and sparing those who should not live, by your lying to my people, who love hearing lies.'
20 Therefore here is what Adonai ELOHIM says: 'I am against your pads, with which you hunt human lives like birds; I will tear them from your arms and let the lives go, yes, the human lives that you hunt like birds.
21 I will also tear your veils and rescue my people from your clutches, so that they will no longer be in your power for you to hunt. Then you will know that I am ADONAI.
22 Because you have disheartened the righteous with your lies when I was not trying to cause them pain and have encouraged the wicked not to turn from their wicked ways and thus be saved,
23 therefore you will have no more futile visions, and you will produce no more divinations. I will rescue my people from your clutches, and you will know that I am ADONAI.'"
KJV says:
8And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
22Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
The few words that differ in spelling/pronunciation do not differ in meaning IMO.
Soooo
Have you ever studied Biblical Hebrew? I know you have not. It is NEVER possible to exactly translate any language directly into another language, and Hebrew is no exception. I had to compare the KJV to the original Hebrew, and find the places where the translation was not the same. There were many places, although it was a bit better than some translations. I studied Hebrew in seminary for a year, and I can assure you you cannot directly translate Hebrew into any language perfectly. Hebrew is a Semitic language, like Akkadian, Ugarit and Aramaic. They are very close in structure, because they existed at the same time as early Hebrew, and were very close together in location.
English is a completely different language group. We do not have the verbal system that Hebrew does, like QAL, PIEL, and the other 8 total verb forms. Further, Hebrew has double forms we don't have at all in English- we only have singular & plural. Word order is not the same. You can't just copy the words down in Hebrew and write their equivalent words in English. The English would be confusing, because word order is not the same.
You need to watch which false prophets you are follow. First you talk about the Hebrew and then launch onto the fact that the KJV is exactly from the Septuagint. The Septuagint is Greek! Jesus and his disciples used the LXX 80% of the time. But Greek is an inflected language. It has cases for nouns, adjectives and adverbs. Depends upon where the Greek is in the sentence, it can be less or more important depending on the cases, nominative, genitive dative and accusative. German makes an excellent case for copying straight from Greek to German, because they both have cases. There are other languages like Ukrainian which have cases making it easier to translate. English is a total fail to translate it from Greek to English. Greek has cases and English does not.
Besides which, the KJV used the Masoretuc text - Hebrew to translate the Old Testament. Not the Septuagint!
Nothing like being a know it all who knows nothing about languages and utterly destroys his points as to why the KJV is not translated from the Septuagint, but the Hebrew.
English is a completely different language group. We do not have the verbal system that Hebrew does, like QAL, PIEL, and the other 8 total verb forms. Further, Hebrew has double forms we don't have at all in English- we only have singular & plural. Word order is not the same. You can't just copy the words down in Hebrew and write their equivalent words in English. The English would be confusing, because word order is not the same.
You need to watch which false prophets you are follow. First you talk about the Hebrew and then launch onto the fact that the KJV is exactly from the Septuagint. The Septuagint is Greek! Jesus and his disciples used the LXX 80% of the time. But Greek is an inflected language. It has cases for nouns, adjectives and adverbs. Depends upon where the Greek is in the sentence, it can be less or more important depending on the cases, nominative, genitive dative and accusative. German makes an excellent case for copying straight from Greek to German, because they both have cases. There are other languages like Ukrainian which have cases making it easier to translate. English is a total fail to translate it from Greek to English. Greek has cases and English does not.
Besides which, the KJV used the Masoretuc text - Hebrew to translate the Old Testament. Not the Septuagint!
Nothing like being a know it all who knows nothing about languages and utterly destroys his points as to why the KJV is not translated from the Septuagint, but the Hebrew.
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interestingly..
Ezekiel 13:20 Brenton Septuagint Translation
did kjv remove "birds"?
this doesn't seem to me to be an accurate statement..
i thought the kjv guys didn't like the septuagint?
Ezekiel 13:20 Brenton Septuagint Translation
Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I am against your pillows, whereby ye there confound souls, and I will tear them away from your arms, and will set at liberty their souls which ye pervert to scatter them
did kjv remove "birds"?
this doesn't seem to me to be an accurate statement..
i thought the kjv guys didn't like the septuagint?
it should be pointed out that Strong wrote a concordance
a concordance is NOT a dictionary
what Strongs concordance does is for each Greek word in the NT, list all the English words the kjv used to translate the same Greek word. and for each Hebrew word in the OT, list every English word the kjv used to translate the same Hebrew word.
this does not mean that a Greek word in Strongs is equivalent to the English words used to translate it. it's just a list of what kjv used. not a dictionary. not a lexicon. Just a handy guide to help you trace the same Greek & Hebrew words in the kjv as the translators used - on purpose - a variety of different English words for a single Greek or Hebrew one.
a concordance is NOT a dictionary
what Strongs concordance does is for each Greek word in the NT, list all the English words the kjv used to translate the same Greek word. and for each Hebrew word in the OT, list every English word the kjv used to translate the same Hebrew word.
this does not mean that a Greek word in Strongs is equivalent to the English words used to translate it. it's just a list of what kjv used. not a dictionary. not a lexicon. Just a handy guide to help you trace the same Greek & Hebrew words in the kjv as the translators used - on purpose - a variety of different English words for a single Greek or Hebrew one.
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so it is not true that Strongs concordance "maps all English words to the Septuagint"
@Medad this is why i put red X on your post.
- Not all English words are in the Bible
- Strongs maps single Greek and Hebrew words to multiple English words
- not because they are definitions: only because they are what kjv used
- not because kjv was correct to use them: just because the kjv used them
@Medad this is why i put red X on your post.
it is important to know what you're looking at with translations.
there are many paraphrase Bibles popular in the last 50 years to present day that are absolutely not accurate translations - nor do they even attempt to be. they're interpretations.
they range from obvious terrible messes like 'the message' to subtly incorrect like 'NLT'
these are someone's idea of what the actual text means, and they rewrite the scripture to what they think it should say to better get the meaning across that they think it has.
so, the little details and shades of meaning when you look at various translations are very often a man's opinions, not necessarily true.
better to figure out which are more accurate, whether from masoretic or septuagint source texts, and look into the Hebrew and Greek, than to just search many translations without knowledge.
z.b. - - kjv, nkjv, nasb, esv, ylt, etc, yes even niv - these are all fair. read the notes in the net version, tho take their conclusions with grain of salt.
but i pray The Spirit of Christ guide us, and He will not fail
i just want to inform.
there are many paraphrase Bibles popular in the last 50 years to present day that are absolutely not accurate translations - nor do they even attempt to be. they're interpretations.
they range from obvious terrible messes like 'the message' to subtly incorrect like 'NLT'
these are someone's idea of what the actual text means, and they rewrite the scripture to what they think it should say to better get the meaning across that they think it has.
so, the little details and shades of meaning when you look at various translations are very often a man's opinions, not necessarily true.
better to figure out which are more accurate, whether from masoretic or septuagint source texts, and look into the Hebrew and Greek, than to just search many translations without knowledge.
z.b. - - kjv, nkjv, nasb, esv, ylt, etc, yes even niv - these are all fair. read the notes in the net version, tho take their conclusions with grain of salt.
but i pray The Spirit of Christ guide us, and He will not fail
i just want to inform.
You guys do not use google? I mean what search engine are you using? get another? All your wrong answers could have been easily quickly cleaned up before you even responded. Search out Septuagint. The kjv has mapped every english word back to the septuagint greek translation by the hebrews from their scrolls and oral teachings. See Strong' Concordance. What part of that don't you understand? Strong's numbering and strong's definition translating the english words from the Greek from the hebrew amaric words. Maintaining the original Terminology that Is known to man. You want to say it doesn't matter. As they teach to hunt the souls to make them fly. Eze 13 Doesn't seem to you lol. Search it out see post yesterday titled Church Paul Agrees Post Tribulation. Search out all fourteen before responsing. Thank you
