Is Speaking in Tongues still available today?
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It doesn't have to be human it could also be angelic according to Paul.
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Why would it require a Supernatural Gift to Interpret if it was human? We as a body of Christ would not be edified (lifted up and encouraged in the Lord) by only understanding the Language (hey they're speaking Russian, but I don't know what they're saying) we need the Interpretation in a language we know, that is what edifies us and lifts us up.
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Why would it require a Supernatural Gift to Interpret if it was human? We as a body of Christ would not be edified (lifted up and encouraged in the Lord) by only understanding the Language (hey they're speaking Russian, but I don't know what they're saying) we need the Interpretation in a language we know, that is what edifies us and lifts us up.
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You make a lot of assertions here, and while I appreciate the passion and can even understand how one can arrive at your conclusions, I do not think scripture supports what you are saying at all. Are you saying tongues has never been human languages? That's exactly what tongues is in the bible very clearly. There are only a few scriptures that can support tongues NOT being a human language. I'm just not understanding how the assertion that you're making fit with His word overall. So before I say a bunch of stuff for the wrong reason, is that what you're saying? That it's never been human languages?
no.
1Cor. 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
They wouldn't. I am totally lost on the point you are trying to discuss.
1Cor. 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
They wouldn't. I am totally lost on the point you are trying to discuss.
This concerns me. Maybe you should preach and teach in some other content area.
I haven't been teaching the Bible as long as you have, not in any kind of formal setting, just since my mid-20s. I spent time studying and learning before I started. I also preach and teach free of charge, and I have never taken a salary for it, though I've received gifts.
It is not enough to preach the word of God. You should actually study it and understand what you are preaching and teaching. Honestly, some of your recent posts sound like faux-spiritual fluff-- that tongues doesn't have a dialect? That also contradicts Acts.
Let me ask you, are you familiar with the history of your own movement? I'm assuming you are Charismatic, maybe Pentecostal. Do you think those Pentecostals in the Azusa Street Revival and sense who understood tongues to be 'tongues of men and of angels' based on I Corinthians 13, are all ignorant and in error?
I'm also curious what movement you are in. Is this WOF teaching?
I occasionally come across a Pentecostal who holds to this WOF heavenly-code-language only idea. Growing up partly in the A/G, it seemed like the idea that it could be a human language was understood, not just because of the Bible, but because of missionary testimonies, like some told by Charles Greenoway, who was one of the A/G missions directors back then, and others who knew of cases where someone heard their own language spoken in tongues in church and confirmed it, and sometimes the interpretation. There were a lot of reports of that during the Azusa Street Revival.
I don't go to an A/G, but they put out position papers and things like that.
Here is a quote from Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Baptism in the Holy Spirit (ag.org)
Notice, language.
My point is there are multitudes of Pentecostals who speak in tongues who believe that tongues are languages, and don't think it has to be some language only God knows. That idea comes from taking a prooftext out of context. Paul explains what he's talking about before and after that verse 'no man understandeth him.' No one present understands that tongue of 'men and of angels.' It as if a barbarian is speaking.
Btw, what I am saying makes sense according to the word of God.
I haven't been teaching the Bible as long as you have, not in any kind of formal setting, just since my mid-20s. I spent time studying and learning before I started. I also preach and teach free of charge, and I have never taken a salary for it, though I've received gifts.
It is not enough to preach the word of God. You should actually study it and understand what you are preaching and teaching. Honestly, some of your recent posts sound like faux-spiritual fluff-- that tongues doesn't have a dialect? That also contradicts Acts.
Let me ask you, are you familiar with the history of your own movement? I'm assuming you are Charismatic, maybe Pentecostal. Do you think those Pentecostals in the Azusa Street Revival and sense who understood tongues to be 'tongues of men and of angels' based on I Corinthians 13, are all ignorant and in error?
I'm also curious what movement you are in. Is this WOF teaching?
I occasionally come across a Pentecostal who holds to this WOF heavenly-code-language only idea. Growing up partly in the A/G, it seemed like the idea that it could be a human language was understood, not just because of the Bible, but because of missionary testimonies, like some told by Charles Greenoway, who was one of the A/G missions directors back then, and others who knew of cases where someone heard their own language spoken in tongues in church and confirmed it, and sometimes the interpretation. There were a lot of reports of that during the Azusa Street Revival.
I don't go to an A/G, but they put out position papers and things like that.
Here is a quote from Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Baptism in the Holy Spirit (ag.org)
Notice, language.
My point is there are multitudes of Pentecostals who speak in tongues who believe that tongues are languages, and don't think it has to be some language only God knows. That idea comes from taking a prooftext out of context. Paul explains what he's talking about before and after that verse 'no man understandeth him.' No one present understands that tongue of 'men and of angels.' It as if a barbarian is speaking.
Btw, what I am saying makes sense according to the word of God.
God's ways are above my ways. But they are above your ways, too, right?
The Bible says 'Come let us reason together' so reasoning, and posting stuff that actually makes sense is okay, isn't it?
I'm following what the Bible says, interpreting the Bible, and as far as what the idea of speaking in tongues is, mine aligns with what Pentecostals historically understood it to mean, and more importantly, what the Bible teaches.
The actual words translated 'speaking in tongues' can be translated 'speaking in languages.' In Acts 2, those present understood the languages, but in the church situation in Corinth, no one did. But Paul still mentioned speaking in tongues as 'in the tongues of men and of angels.' The issue Paul was addressing was no one understanding the language, so the speaker is like a foreigner 'barbarian' others don't understand. The tongue had to be interpreted for others to understand it.
I've heard this theory of your before. You didn't answer if you were WOF. I suspect WOFers could have gotten it from a niche Pentecostal belief. Parham was actually expecting languages for evangelism, but there is no promise of that in scripture and that didn't pan out, usually, just on occasions if God allows that to happen. Have you happen to have read 'The Apostolic Faith' any, Seymour's journal. Flowers library online has it. I looked through two or three editions to count the number of testimonies of tongues recognized in people's languages, and it was just shy of a dozen. There was a lot of that going on back then.
Generally, in church, no one understands the language. LA was a very international city. According to this testimony
of someone from the revival speaking in tongues in the languages of different people is what caused the revival to grow. I can tell that Vinson Synan, who was at some point ordained a Pentecostal Holiness pastor, believes that speaking in tongues is supposed to be a language in this clip.
Anyway, my point is your view goes against the historical Pentecostal understanding of what speaking in tongues is, and the experience of a lot of people, and doesn't align with the understanding of a lot of people who speak in tongues. Maybe you aren't aware of this, but I think you should lay off on that hair trigger of accusing people of calling God's word a liar.
The Bible says 'Come let us reason together' so reasoning, and posting stuff that actually makes sense is okay, isn't it?
I'm following what the Bible says, interpreting the Bible, and as far as what the idea of speaking in tongues is, mine aligns with what Pentecostals historically understood it to mean, and more importantly, what the Bible teaches.
The actual words translated 'speaking in tongues' can be translated 'speaking in languages.' In Acts 2, those present understood the languages, but in the church situation in Corinth, no one did. But Paul still mentioned speaking in tongues as 'in the tongues of men and of angels.' The issue Paul was addressing was no one understanding the language, so the speaker is like a foreigner 'barbarian' others don't understand. The tongue had to be interpreted for others to understand it.
I've heard this theory of your before. You didn't answer if you were WOF. I suspect WOFers could have gotten it from a niche Pentecostal belief. Parham was actually expecting languages for evangelism, but there is no promise of that in scripture and that didn't pan out, usually, just on occasions if God allows that to happen. Have you happen to have read 'The Apostolic Faith' any, Seymour's journal. Flowers library online has it. I looked through two or three editions to count the number of testimonies of tongues recognized in people's languages, and it was just shy of a dozen. There was a lot of that going on back then.
Generally, in church, no one understands the language. LA was a very international city. According to this testimony
Anyway, my point is your view goes against the historical Pentecostal understanding of what speaking in tongues is, and the experience of a lot of people, and doesn't align with the understanding of a lot of people who speak in tongues. Maybe you aren't aware of this, but I think you should lay off on that hair trigger of accusing people of calling God's word a liar.
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oh my lands dude! nowhere does that mean it is some language never spoken on earth
I mean who made all the languages if we believe the Bible? something about tower of babble I think?
I usually kind of interpret or get a feel for what I was praying about in tongues.....to me, that would kind of be the norm if a person is to get some kind of idea of clarity about a situation or whatever
well, don't mind me, but if that is your 'proof' text I would disagree and further say to look into the subject better and one verse does not a doctrine make
let me add:
if a person is going to speak a language they never heard well (duh) OF COURSE it would have to be given in a manner not usually achieved, ie through the Spirit.
I dunno, but it seems clear to me as far as understanding goes....
I mean who made all the languages if we believe the Bible? something about tower of babble I think?
I usually kind of interpret or get a feel for what I was praying about in tongues.....to me, that would kind of be the norm if a person is to get some kind of idea of clarity about a situation or whatever
well, don't mind me, but if that is your 'proof' text I would disagree and further say to look into the subject better and one verse does not a doctrine make
let me add:
if a person is going to speak a language they never heard well (duh) OF COURSE it would have to be given in a manner not usually achieved, ie through the Spirit.
I dunno, but it seems clear to me as far as understanding goes....
1 Cor. 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1 Cor. 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
I am not agreeing with what FollowerofShiloh is trying to say or at least I don't think, cause I am not totally sure of what he is trying to say. Just showing scripture to possibly refute one statement.
Because in most service I have been a part of The tongue spoken was a known dialect but still needed an Interpreter so the Whole Body can be edified.