2 Years Are Left, and the Two Witnesses Are About to Emerge to the World Anytime Now
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Sure there is. What do both things have in common? Both are destructive. They both describe the opposite of what transpired in creation.
Both also are symbolic of the old covenant that is coming to an end. To you and I this seems a small thing. To a devout first century Jew, this was the end of his world. His whole existence was tied to Jerusalem and the temple. When they were destroyed, so was his whole world. Symbolically, his life is full of earthquakes and a world peeling away.
Both also are symbolic of the old covenant that is coming to an end. To you and I this seems a small thing. To a devout first century Jew, this was the end of his world. His whole existence was tied to Jerusalem and the temple. When they were destroyed, so was his whole world. Symbolically, his life is full of earthquakes and a world peeling away.
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Ah, this reminds me of something Bill Perkins wrote / showed in 2018 (from his article called "2 Days in Scripture"):
[image]
2-days-graphic.jpeg (2478×1063) (compass.org)
[sry, I don't know how to post images]
[image]
2-days-graphic.jpeg (2478×1063) (compass.org)
[sry, I don't know how to post images]
This statement doesn't make much sense = )
... since (at least Pre-tribbers) don't believe "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (when Jesus "RETURNS" to the earth) is speaking of "the end of the WORLD" (no)... the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom FOLLOWS that point in the chronology (and is known as "the age [singular] to come" Matt12:32)
[1) the end couldn't possibly "come tomorrow"
; 2) we can't "make" anything happen, regarding this subject lol]
... since (at least Pre-tribbers) don't believe "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (when Jesus "RETURNS" to the earth) is speaking of "the end of the WORLD" (no)... the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom FOLLOWS that point in the chronology (and is known as "the age [singular] to come" Matt12:32)
[1) the end couldn't possibly "come tomorrow"
; 2) we can't "make" anything happen, regarding this subject lol]Yes, I agree.
--"the beginning of birth pangs" (equivalent the SEALS of Rev6): Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 (once we see these in bold are all the SAME events, then we can read what must come "BEFORE" and what comes AFTER these);
--("BEFORE ALL" those in bold) Lk21:12-24a,b THE EVENTS SURROUNDING 70ad (24c following on from those);
--(AFTER those BoBPs / SEALS) Matt24:9-14 and v.15-chpt's end (includes Christ's Second Coming to the earth Matt24:29-31 parallel Isaiah 27:9,12-13 [/Rom11:27 / Dan9:24 (parts)]);
--the SEALS are included in (what Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 says are) "things which MUST come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (NOT things which would unfold over the course of some near-2000-years, as the Historicists have it)... so the "SEALS / BoBPs" take place WITHIN the "future, specific, LIMITED time-period" we call the "7 yr Trib"
--"the beginning of birth pangs" (equivalent the SEALS of Rev6): Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 (once we see these in bold are all the SAME events, then we can read what must come "BEFORE" and what comes AFTER these);
--("BEFORE ALL" those in bold) Lk21:12-24a,b THE EVENTS SURROUNDING 70ad (24c following on from those);
--(AFTER those BoBPs / SEALS) Matt24:9-14 and v.15-chpt's end (includes Christ's Second Coming to the earth Matt24:29-31 parallel Isaiah 27:9,12-13 [/Rom11:27 / Dan9:24 (parts)]);
--the SEALS are included in (what Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 says are) "things which MUST come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (NOT things which would unfold over the course of some near-2000-years, as the Historicists have it)... so the "SEALS / BoBPs" take place WITHIN the "future, specific, LIMITED time-period" we call the "7 yr Trib"
The statement in Lk21:24c regarding "the TIMES of the Gentiles" is not speaking of something akin to "the age of the Gentiles" (which some label "the Church age");
...no, it is speaking rather of Gentile domination over Israel ("Jerusalem... TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles" [see also Rev11:2c]) which STARTED in 606/605bc (think: Neb's "dream / statue / image"... with Neb as "head of gold") and which will not be CONCLUDED "until" Christ's Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), which hasn't happened yet. [Dan2:34-35; Dan7:[25,]27; Rev13:1,5-7; etc]
...no, it is speaking rather of Gentile domination over Israel ("Jerusalem... TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles" [see also Rev11:2c]) which STARTED in 606/605bc (think: Neb's "dream / statue / image"... with Neb as "head of gold") and which will not be CONCLUDED "until" Christ's Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), which hasn't happened yet. [Dan2:34-35; Dan7:[25,]27; Rev13:1,5-7; etc]
But what does this event ^ have to do with what the poster had specifically spoken of, when they'd posted these words:
My suggestion: read the poster's words a little more carefully.
They were not referencing things which took place at the time of the Cross and His Resurrection (32ad... or thereabouts).
[I see that poster/member already addressed this matter in their posts #82-83 ]
My suggestion: read the poster's words a little more carefully.
They were not referencing things which took place at the time of the Cross and His Resurrection (32ad... or thereabouts).
[I see that poster/member already addressed this matter in their posts #82-83
]Oh brother.
A severe earthquake is just that,a severe earthquake.
It takes place the same time the two witnesses ascend into heaven in a cloud which I guess you believe that also took place in ,70 ad because you believe that was the time of the end.
Revelation 11
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
So did anyone in 70 ad watch the two witnesses ascend into heaven at the time of the great earthquake?
Any witnesses see that and write it down?
A severe earthquake is just that,a severe earthquake.
It takes place the same time the two witnesses ascend into heaven in a cloud which I guess you believe that also took place in ,70 ad because you believe that was the time of the end.
Revelation 11
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
So did anyone in 70 ad watch the two witnesses ascend into heaven at the time of the great earthquake?
Any witnesses see that and write it down?
The 2 witnesses are Moses and Elijah...the law and the prophets. The word of God testifies against Israel. It reveals that they didn't keep the terms of the covenant and now will suffer the punishment for not doing so. And, of course, word of God goes to heaven to show that it has been withdrawn from them.
But what does this event ^ have to do with what the poster had specifically spoken of, when they'd posted these words:
My suggestion: read the poster's words a little more carefully.
They were not referencing things which took place at the time of the Cross and His Resurrection (32ad... or thereabouts).
[I see that poster/member already addressed this matter in their posts #82-83 ]
My suggestion: read the poster's words a little more carefully.
They were not referencing things which took place at the time of the Cross and His Resurrection (32ad... or thereabouts).
[I see that poster/member already addressed this matter in their posts #82-83
]
Of course, the old covenant ended at the establishment of the new covenant at Christ's death.
1 Corinthians 11:25
In the same way He also took the cup after supper, saying,
“This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
I was pointing out that the dead were raised in the first century.
Also, Christ is reigning now.
Acts 2:36
Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.
Matthew 28:18
All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Luke 10:22
All things have been handed over to me by my Father.
John 5:22
The Father . . . has given all judgment to the Son.
All the verses above are in the past tense.
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My understanding is that it is similar to the phrasing found in Matt23:35 ("whom ye slew" is also the wording said re: Jesus in Acts 5:30 for example)...
...now, in Matt23:35 the phrase "whom ye slew" and of whom that is in reference to is debated amongst the commentaries, but my view is closest to what it says in the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary :
"unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar—As there is no record of any fresh murder answering to this description, probably the allusion is not to any recent murder, but to 2Ch 24:20-22, as the last recorded and most suitable case for illustration. And as Zacharias' last words were, "The Lord require it," so they are here warned that of that generation it should be required."
-- https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/23-35.htm [bold and underlined mine]
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[some examples... there are others...]
Matthew 20
18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
Mark 10
33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles: 34 And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.
Acts 2:23b-24
...you put to death, having crucified Him by lawless hands, 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the agony of death, inasmuch as it was not possible for Him to be held by it.
Acts 3:13-15
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus. You handed Him over and rejected Him before Pilate, even though he had decided to release Him.
But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
[note: in v.17 Peter goes on to say, "And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers."]
Acts 4:10,11
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole…
Acts 5 (BSB) - The Apostles Before the Council
…29 But Peter and the other apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had killed [G1315] by hanging Him on a tree. 31 God exalted Him to His right hand as Prince and Savior, in order to grant repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.…
Acts 10:39
We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And although they put Him to death by hanging Him on a tree,
Acts 13:29
When they had carried out all that was written about Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb.
John 8 (AMP)
Jesus Is the Light of the World
12 Once more Jesus addressed the crowd. He said, “[a]I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.” 13 Then the Pharisees told Him, “You are testifying on Your own behalf; Your testimony is not valid.” 14 Jesus replied, “Even if I do testify on My own behalf, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge according to human standards [just by what you see]. I do not judge anyone. 16 But even if I do judge, My judgment is true and My decision is right; for I am not alone [in making it], but I and the Father who sent Me [make the same judgment]. 17 Even in your own law it is written that the testimony of two persons is true [valid and admissible]. 18 I am One [of the Two] who testifies about Myself, and My Father who sent Me testifies about Me.” 19 Then the Pharisees said to Him, “Where is this Father of Yours?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.” 20 Jesus said these things in the treasury, as He taught in the temple [courtyard]; and no one seized Him, because His time had not yet come.
21 Then He said again to them, “I am going away, and you will look for Me, and you will die [unforgiven and condemned] in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” 22 So the Jews were asking [among themselves], “Will He kill Himself? Is that why He says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” 23 He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24 That is why I told you that you will die [unforgiven and condemned] in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am the One [I claim to be], you will die in your sins.” 25 So they said to Him, “Who are You [anyway]?” Jesus replied, “What have I been saying to you from the beginning? 26 I have many things to say and judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I say to the world [only] the things that I have heard from Him.” 27 They did not realize [or have the spiritual insight to understand] that He was speaking to them about the Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man [on the cross], you will know then [without any doubt] that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own authority, but I say these things just as My Father taught Me. 29 And He who sent Me is [always] with Me; He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.” 30 As He said these things, [c]many believed in Him.
...now, in Matt23:35 the phrase "whom ye slew" and of whom that is in reference to is debated amongst the commentaries, but my view is closest to what it says in the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary :
"unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar—As there is no record of any fresh murder answering to this description, probably the allusion is not to any recent murder, but to 2Ch 24:20-22, as the last recorded and most suitable case for illustration. And as Zacharias' last words were, "The Lord require it," so they are here warned that of that generation it should be required."
-- https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/23-35.htm [bold and underlined mine]
____________
[some examples... there are others...]
Matthew 20
18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
Mark 10
33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles: 34 And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.
Acts 2:23b-24
...you put to death, having crucified Him by lawless hands, 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the agony of death, inasmuch as it was not possible for Him to be held by it.
Acts 3:13-15
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus. You handed Him over and rejected Him before Pilate, even though he had decided to release Him.
But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
[note: in v.17 Peter goes on to say, "And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers."]
Acts 4:10,11
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole…
Acts 5 (BSB) - The Apostles Before the Council
…29 But Peter and the other apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had killed [G1315] by hanging Him on a tree. 31 God exalted Him to His right hand as Prince and Savior, in order to grant repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.…
Acts 10:39
We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And although they put Him to death by hanging Him on a tree,
Acts 13:29
When they had carried out all that was written about Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb.
John 8 (AMP)
Jesus Is the Light of the World
12 Once more Jesus addressed the crowd. He said, “[a]I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.” 13 Then the Pharisees told Him, “You are testifying on Your own behalf; Your testimony is not valid.” 14 Jesus replied, “Even if I do testify on My own behalf, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge according to human standards [just by what you see]. I do not judge anyone. 16 But even if I do judge, My judgment is true and My decision is right; for I am not alone [in making it], but I and the Father who sent Me [make the same judgment]. 17 Even in your own law it is written that the testimony of two persons is true [valid and admissible]. 18 I am One [of the Two] who testifies about Myself, and My Father who sent Me testifies about Me.” 19 Then the Pharisees said to Him, “Where is this Father of Yours?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.” 20 Jesus said these things in the treasury, as He taught in the temple [courtyard]; and no one seized Him, because His time had not yet come.
21 Then He said again to them, “I am going away, and you will look for Me, and you will die [unforgiven and condemned] in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” 22 So the Jews were asking [among themselves], “Will He kill Himself? Is that why He says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” 23 He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24 That is why I told you that you will die [unforgiven and condemned] in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am the One [I claim to be], you will die in your sins.” 25 So they said to Him, “Who are You [anyway]?” Jesus replied, “What have I been saying to you from the beginning? 26 I have many things to say and judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I say to the world [only] the things that I have heard from Him.” 27 They did not realize [or have the spiritual insight to understand] that He was speaking to them about the Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man [on the cross], you will know then [without any doubt] that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own authority, but I say these things just as My Father taught Me. 29 And He who sent Me is [always] with Me; He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.” 30 As He said these things, [c]many believed in Him.
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This is probably an awesome post and full of great points. And I know you spend a great deal of time in studying God's word. And I respect this immensely. So if I assent to you that you have biblical support for what you share, will you assent to just giving me a series of statements in your own words that highlight what it you think I should understand?
@Cameron143 ^ , sure... let me try...
Matthew 23:35 - "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar." (if what J-F-B says is accurate about this referencing back to 2Chron24:20-22 [with which I agree], then how did the people standing before Him/Jesus in this Matthew 23 context actually COMMIT [by means of their own tangible hands] that "WHOM YE SLEW" of this text, speaking of "Zacharias son of Barachias" who lived long before these folks in Mt23 ever existed ?? See what I'm getting at yet?)
[similar wording used re: Jesus ("whom ye slew") in Acts 5, speaking of Jesus' death on the Cross]
Matthew 23:35 - "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar." (if what J-F-B says is accurate about this referencing back to 2Chron24:20-22 [with which I agree], then how did the people standing before Him/Jesus in this Matthew 23 context actually COMMIT [by means of their own tangible hands] that "WHOM YE SLEW" of this text, speaking of "Zacharias son of Barachias" who lived long before these folks in Mt23 ever existed ?? See what I'm getting at yet?)
[similar wording used re: Jesus ("whom ye slew") in Acts 5, speaking of Jesus' death on the Cross]
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