Predestination is misunderstood...
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The word God used for this particular snake with Eve is called Nāḥāš. Nāḥāš means fortune telling/divination, which that is what the serpent did when he told Eve, 5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.' < God even confirms that is what Satan did, Fortune told/Divinated Eve (22 And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil).
So God knew the snake was Evil, which is Satan, and used a term only used for snake defined as fortune telling/divination.
No other snake has been called this. So we know it is Satan by the word Nāḥāš.
And if you read Genesis 3, God uses the term "Nāḥāš" BEFORE Satan ever speaks to Eve.
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent "Nāḥāš" was more subtle...
So God is making it clear before the serpent speaks this is Satan.
So God knew the snake was Evil, which is Satan, and used a term only used for snake defined as fortune telling/divination.
No other snake has been called this. So we know it is Satan by the word Nāḥāš.
And if you read Genesis 3, God uses the term "Nāḥāš" BEFORE Satan ever speaks to Eve.
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent "Nāḥāš" was more subtle...
So God is making it clear before the serpent speaks this is Satan.
I do see the term "dead" in that and many other texts.
You pointed out that Jesus told a man who wanted to bury his Father before following Jesus, "Leave the dead to bury their own dead."
So what does dead mean in this verse?
Jesus seems to imply that this man, if he gave up his attachment to his earthly treasures and started to walk with Jesus, that man would not be one of the dead who were about to bury his father, but he would be living. Jesus elsewhere, in John 6, says that coming to Jesus to hear His teaching is doing the work God requires in order that we believe Jesus teaching, and so believe and keep on believing in Jesus.
I am translating the greek verbs (indicatives, infinitives and subjunctives) and participles here to capture their essential senses snd show what I see Jesus saying in the Greek text.
27. Do not keep on labouring for the food which perishes, but for the food that endures to aeonous life, which the Son of man will give to you; for on Him has God the Father set His seal... 29 This is the work of God so that (hina, not hoti) you might keep on believing (pisteuEte: Present active subjunctive) in Him whom He sent. (The work God requires of these contemporaries of Jesus is to put effort into getting close enough to Jesus to hear his teaching and observe His signs in the hope that they will believe the words and signs and put their faith in Him and keep on believing in Him. Why does God want them to keep on believing in Jesus?
35 I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst...
Jesus is the bread that gives life to men so that they won't die. Those who ate Moses' bread eventually died. Those who eat Jesus will not die.
39. and this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I should not start to lose anything of all he has given me, but start to raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that (hoti, not hina) every one who continues seeing the Son and continues believing in Him should keep on having aeonous life. and I will raise him up at the last day.
(Those who keep their eyes on Jesus and keep on trusting Him will keep on experiencing the kind of life that pertains to the age to come, and will physically come to life during the last 1000 year day of this creation.)
44. No one is able to start coming to Me unless the Father who sent Me starts to draw him; and I will raise Him up on the last day.
(This is spoken to Jesus' contemporaries about the work of the Father before Jesus is lifted up in attracting Jesus' contemporaries to seek out Jesus. After his crucifixion and resurrection Jesus does the drawing to Himself. God has initiated Jesus' contemporaries interest in Him through the signs and controversial teaching He is expressing through the Lord. Jesus had no form or comeliness that anyone would be attracted to Him, had not the Father have piqued their interest with signs and controversial teaching.
The text does not say Jesus will not be raising up those who are not coming to Him during His ministry. Jesus will raise up those in his audience who have come to Him on the last 1000 year day: either at the beginning as a transformed saint, or at the end to be judged as an unrepentant sinner. But He will also raise up those not coming to Him during His ministry. A day is coming when ALL in the graves will hear His voice and come forth. Jesus' point to these people here is that He will be raising them and judging them on the last day, so they need to be careful how they hear, and about what they do with Jesus.)
47. Truly, truly I am saying to you, the one continuing believing has aeonous life.
(Trusting Jesus is the kind of life that will be enjoyed by those resurrected into the coming age, and those doing it now, have that life now. They know God and Jesus Christ even now.)
48 I am the bread of life.
(Jesus is the bread that gives life.)
50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may start eating of it and might not end up dying.
(If we start absorbing Jesus, we have the possibility of not dying. Jesus does not say , "that if a man may start eating of it, he will not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if anyone starts eating of this bread, he will live into the age (eis ton aiOna) , and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.
(But here Jesus says that if anyone starts absorbing Him, they will live into the age. So here there seems to be some assurance of being raised at the beginning of the 1000 year last day. Here, Jesus identifies the bread as His physical body. He says He will give it. for the world. Maybe he means he is going to surrendering His body to be broken, so that the world may have access through the veil of His flesh into the presence of God.)
53 Truly, truly I am saying to you, unless you start eating the flesh of the Son of man and start drinking His blood, you have no life in you.
(You have no life in you, means you are dead. So, perhaps dead means without Jesus inside you?)
54. He eating my flesh and drinking my blood has aeonous life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
(The ongoing process of absorbing Jesus' flesh and blood is the same as having aeonous life. John 17:3 says knowing God and Jesus, being in a living relationship with them, is aeonous life. Jesus said once "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me." So, our food would be to do the will of Jesus. To eat for Jesus was to do the Father's will., to embody the Father. To eat for us could be to do Jesus' will, to embody Jesus. This could be to eat His flesh, to do the Word of God. But it is possible to do God's Word in the wrong spirit., without love. Drinking Jesus blood could be embodying God's Spirit: walking in the Spirit.)
55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He eating my flesh and drinking my blood is abiding in me, and I in Him.
(So maybe walking in Jesus' Word and walking in Jesus Spirit is to abide in Him and He in us.
57. As the living Father sent Me, and I am living because of the Father, so he eating Me will live because of Me.
(As Jesus walked in the Father's word and walked in the Father's Spirit, He had life. As we walk in Jesus' word and Jesus' Spirit, we will live.)
58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such that the fathers ate and died; he eating this bread will live into the age.
(Walking in accord with Jesus' word will give one entry into the first resurrection and the age to come.
63 It is the Spirit giving life, the flesh is profiting nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
(But doing the Word without doing it in love profits nothing. The words Jesus spoke were the will of the Father spoken in love; they were therefore spirit and life.)
What does "leave the dead" mean, then? The dead here are those who are not doing Jesus' words in love. The physically dead body is also not doing the words of Jesus in love. "Leave those not doing my words to bury those in their household who are also not doing my words. As for you, follow me. Put yourself in a position to learn my will and to do my words so that you will be living."
So someone using the term "spiritually dead" who does not mean "not doing the word of God in love" needs to find a text or passage that teaches their meaning of the term. They should not load the term with unbiblical baggage and expect others to accept their meaning is biblical.
You pointed out that Jesus told a man who wanted to bury his Father before following Jesus, "Leave the dead to bury their own dead."
So what does dead mean in this verse?
Jesus seems to imply that this man, if he gave up his attachment to his earthly treasures and started to walk with Jesus, that man would not be one of the dead who were about to bury his father, but he would be living. Jesus elsewhere, in John 6, says that coming to Jesus to hear His teaching is doing the work God requires in order that we believe Jesus teaching, and so believe and keep on believing in Jesus.
I am translating the greek verbs (indicatives, infinitives and subjunctives) and participles here to capture their essential senses snd show what I see Jesus saying in the Greek text.
27. Do not keep on labouring for the food which perishes, but for the food that endures to aeonous life, which the Son of man will give to you; for on Him has God the Father set His seal... 29 This is the work of God so that (hina, not hoti) you might keep on believing (pisteuEte: Present active subjunctive) in Him whom He sent. (The work God requires of these contemporaries of Jesus is to put effort into getting close enough to Jesus to hear his teaching and observe His signs in the hope that they will believe the words and signs and put their faith in Him and keep on believing in Him. Why does God want them to keep on believing in Jesus?
35 I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst...
Jesus is the bread that gives life to men so that they won't die. Those who ate Moses' bread eventually died. Those who eat Jesus will not die.
39. and this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I should not start to lose anything of all he has given me, but start to raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that (hoti, not hina) every one who continues seeing the Son and continues believing in Him should keep on having aeonous life. and I will raise him up at the last day.
(Those who keep their eyes on Jesus and keep on trusting Him will keep on experiencing the kind of life that pertains to the age to come, and will physically come to life during the last 1000 year day of this creation.)
44. No one is able to start coming to Me unless the Father who sent Me starts to draw him; and I will raise Him up on the last day.
(This is spoken to Jesus' contemporaries about the work of the Father before Jesus is lifted up in attracting Jesus' contemporaries to seek out Jesus. After his crucifixion and resurrection Jesus does the drawing to Himself. God has initiated Jesus' contemporaries interest in Him through the signs and controversial teaching He is expressing through the Lord. Jesus had no form or comeliness that anyone would be attracted to Him, had not the Father have piqued their interest with signs and controversial teaching.
The text does not say Jesus will not be raising up those who are not coming to Him during His ministry. Jesus will raise up those in his audience who have come to Him on the last 1000 year day: either at the beginning as a transformed saint, or at the end to be judged as an unrepentant sinner. But He will also raise up those not coming to Him during His ministry. A day is coming when ALL in the graves will hear His voice and come forth. Jesus' point to these people here is that He will be raising them and judging them on the last day, so they need to be careful how they hear, and about what they do with Jesus.)
47. Truly, truly I am saying to you, the one continuing believing has aeonous life.
(Trusting Jesus is the kind of life that will be enjoyed by those resurrected into the coming age, and those doing it now, have that life now. They know God and Jesus Christ even now.)
48 I am the bread of life.
(Jesus is the bread that gives life.)
50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may start eating of it and might not end up dying.
(If we start absorbing Jesus, we have the possibility of not dying. Jesus does not say , "that if a man may start eating of it, he will not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if anyone starts eating of this bread, he will live into the age (eis ton aiOna) , and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.
(But here Jesus says that if anyone starts absorbing Him, they will live into the age. So here there seems to be some assurance of being raised at the beginning of the 1000 year last day. Here, Jesus identifies the bread as His physical body. He says He will give it. for the world. Maybe he means he is going to surrendering His body to be broken, so that the world may have access through the veil of His flesh into the presence of God.)
53 Truly, truly I am saying to you, unless you start eating the flesh of the Son of man and start drinking His blood, you have no life in you.
(You have no life in you, means you are dead. So, perhaps dead means without Jesus inside you?)
54. He eating my flesh and drinking my blood has aeonous life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
(The ongoing process of absorbing Jesus' flesh and blood is the same as having aeonous life. John 17:3 says knowing God and Jesus, being in a living relationship with them, is aeonous life. Jesus said once "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me." So, our food would be to do the will of Jesus. To eat for Jesus was to do the Father's will., to embody the Father. To eat for us could be to do Jesus' will, to embody Jesus. This could be to eat His flesh, to do the Word of God. But it is possible to do God's Word in the wrong spirit., without love. Drinking Jesus blood could be embodying God's Spirit: walking in the Spirit.)
55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He eating my flesh and drinking my blood is abiding in me, and I in Him.
(So maybe walking in Jesus' Word and walking in Jesus Spirit is to abide in Him and He in us.
57. As the living Father sent Me, and I am living because of the Father, so he eating Me will live because of Me.
(As Jesus walked in the Father's word and walked in the Father's Spirit, He had life. As we walk in Jesus' word and Jesus' Spirit, we will live.)
58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such that the fathers ate and died; he eating this bread will live into the age.
(Walking in accord with Jesus' word will give one entry into the first resurrection and the age to come.
63 It is the Spirit giving life, the flesh is profiting nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
(But doing the Word without doing it in love profits nothing. The words Jesus spoke were the will of the Father spoken in love; they were therefore spirit and life.)
What does "leave the dead" mean, then? The dead here are those who are not doing Jesus' words in love. The physically dead body is also not doing the words of Jesus in love. "Leave those not doing my words to bury those in their household who are also not doing my words. As for you, follow me. Put yourself in a position to learn my will and to do my words so that you will be living."
So someone using the term "spiritually dead" who does not mean "not doing the word of God in love" needs to find a text or passage that teaches their meaning of the term. They should not load the term with unbiblical baggage and expect others to accept their meaning is biblical.
But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God;
for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to understand them,
because spiritually they are discerned." 1 Cor 2:14
The words "natural man" are not found in the Greek. The translators probably reasoned that the state
of that man being discussed is the natural way a man is unless he becomes regenerated.
The Greek word is - "Psuchikos." Meaning, soulish man.
The soulish man is having no human spirit. Spiritually dead.; He is body and soul only.
He can not grasp the the things of the Spirit, and they are foolishness to him.
When we were born again we received a human spirit.
Not meaning the Holy Spirit, though we in the church age also received the gift of the Holy Spirit..
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a special gift given to church age believers only.
Regenerate OT Jews received a human spirit when they were born again...
That is what Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus in John chapter 3.
The church age had not yet begun and Nicodemus was yet living in the Jewish age.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he needed to become body, soul, and human spirit.
Nicodemus was yet a Jew living in the Jewish age.
Later on at Pentecost was when the baptism of the Holy Spirit took place.
Jesus was not telling Nicodemus that he needed to be baptized in the Spirit to see the kingdom of God.
For many Jews before the Church age were looking forward to God's kingdom on earth. They saw it in their
soul and spirit.
grace and peace ..............
Things will be confusing until they are explained and not simply declared to be so.
well your capable of evil does that mean your satan.
Where swinging about in roundabouts here.
Lets swing from the apple tree.
I have scripture that shows satan fell after Adam and eve, not before. But for now I want to go back to original discussion.
So far we have Gone on numerous trips from the original suggestion.
Which is what did God want to know before the fall of man.
Where swinging about in roundabouts here.
Lets swing from the apple tree.
I have scripture that shows satan fell after Adam and eve, not before. But for now I want to go back to original discussion.
So far we have Gone on numerous trips from the original suggestion.
Which is what did God want to know before the fall of man.
I have spent a good deal of time clarifying my position. But given that you consider my communication skills to be deficient, what good would come from it? But having considered your assessment, I've decided to improve myself by working on my communication skills. But just on the off chance, albeit admittedly miniscule, that the problem may be on your end, perhaps you would look into improving your reading comprehension skills.
I'll work on my grunts and, perhaps, you can use your club to loosen a few cobwebs.
I'll work on my grunts and, perhaps, you can use your club to loosen a few cobwebs.
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You want God to treat everyone the same? That's what the WEF want, that way they can control everyone. You keep taking a singular meaning of the word "fair" (which is a wordly view to begin with) and claim God is not that. Well, no, He is not fair as the world wants fair. No big surprise there.
Synonyms
equitably
objectively
legitimately
honestly
justly
lawfully
without prejudice
dispassionately
impartially
even-handedly
without bias
Synonyms
equitably
objectively
legitimately
honestly
justly
lawfully
without prejudice
dispassionately
impartially
even-handedly
without bias