Are you pre-Trib, mid-Trib, or post-Trib?

[Bob-Carabbio]

I'm mid-Trib or pre-Wrath. Would love to know which view you have and why.

Since "Eschatology" is just a religious "Buzz word" meaning "Rank Speculation about the future" I don't HAVE a "view" that I'd spend any time defending. The Assemblies of God that I'm a member of Are "pre-tribbers" (https://ag.org/Beliefs/Position-Papers/The-Rapture-of-the-Church), which is fine by me. I'll watch it from the other side of the grass, probably, so personally unimportant.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"pilgarhim" lol I wasn't thinking of that.

What I's sayin' is the church will fail or at least appear to. Very few will endure just as they failed in Gethsemane and the cross ... yet when Jesus arose He called them to Himself. So also when He comes He will call us to Himself ... even if we failed when the test came.

... it was Peter who failed the biggest.

Lol I tried my best to do the John Wayne voice over text haha

yeah brother Jesus draws men to himself this way

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬

air doesn’t just magically happen after we live opposed is the thing the gospel is all through the world calling men to repentance and life many won’t repent though that’s the issue . We aren’t just puppets in a show we are free people who’ve been informed of life and death how to live forever with Jesus in his eternal kingdom and how to perish in the lake of fire and be remembered no more

we simply have to believe the gospel because of we do we’re choosing eternal life that he promises in the gospel alone which he sent to be preached to everyone in creation

If we want to know the truth about salvation we just need to hear and believe Jesus seems a really simple point but it becomes complex when we won’t hear what he’s saying like this

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to hear that it’s one of the reasons he came o to the world

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Why is it so important to him that we sinners repent ?

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because of we don’t we’re going to perish he’s simply telling sinful man the tr ur about our current course and destination ahead unless we turn the wheel if we hear and believe him repentance will come simply by hearing and acknolwedging the truth of God

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to let the truth be true so we stand up and walk out of the snare the dungeon sinners are in even when they don’t know it because …..they won’t hear the truth

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to let the word change what we believe that’s how he leads us it’s always been his way to speak to man and guide them who believe him

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m saying is he’s explained it all for us how to be saved how to face judgement without mercy how to have our sins remitted through repentance and baptism ect our place is just to learn as we are able and adopt his beliefs nd make them ours

 

[Stan_the_Man]

that’s already happened long long ago rome destroyed Jerusalem

Nope, that was not the great tribulation the Bible speaks of.

they died in the great tribulation

No, Jesus said the great tribulation would bring destruction this world has never seen before and will never see again.

WW1 and WW2 produced far more death and destruction than the events of 70 AD so the events of 70 AD was definitely Not the great tribulation.

The sad thing is those that believe the great tribulation happened back in 70 AD will follow the anti-christ when he gets here and will take the mark of the beast just so they can buy and sell - and doing so will cause them to be doomed to suffer in hell for all eternity

Revelation 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Not to mention back in 70 nobody was making all people take a mark and nobody was preventing people from buying and selling which will all take place when the anti-christ takes over the world in the not too distant future

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

If you want to use this model, then where does ENOCH fit?

Was he not "raptured" before any of it started?

Agreed.

"ENOCH" (ONE MAN) is a type of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" (and this occurred well-before "judgment" [the flood judgment] unfolded upon the earth);





"Noah [and crew]" and "Lot," on the other hand, are examples used by Jesus (Matt24; Lk17) NOT of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" but of those saints who will exist on the earth in/during/within the Trib years LEADING UP TO His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, where those saints who survive to the end OF THAT will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, capable of bearing children / reproducing (just as in the days of Noah; Compare Gen9:1 with the wording in Dan2:35c "[actively] FILL / FILLED the [whole] earth").
Those saints who DIE in the Trib yrs, will be "resurrected ['to stand again' on the earth]," to be sure, but will be "as the angels" (not bearing children / reproducing, as the ones who will enter the MK age in their mortal bodies will have the capacity to do, with its resultant Rev20:8b "the NUMBER of whom is as the sand of the sea" i.e. tons and tons and lotsa ppl! by the end of those 1000 yrs)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Nope, that was not the great tribulation the Bible speaks of.


No, Jesus said the great tribulation would bring destruction this world has never seen before and will never see again.

Agreed.

 

[DRobinson]

Agreed.

"ENOCH" (ONE MAN) is a type of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" (and this occurred well-before "judgment" [the flood judgment] unfolded upon the earth);





"Noah [and crew]" and "Lot," on the other hand, are examples used by Jesus (Matt24; Lk17) NOT of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" but of those saints who will exist on the earth in/during/within the Trib years LEADING UP TO His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, where those saints who survive to the end OF THAT will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, capable of bearing children / reproducing (just as in the days of Noah; Compare Gen9:1 with the wording in Dan2:35c "[actively] FILL / FILLED the [whole] earth").
Those saints who DIE in the Trib yrs, will be "resurrected ['to stand again' on the earth]," to be sure, but will be "as the angels" (not bearing children / reproducing, as the ones who will enter the MK age in their mortal bodies will have the capacity to do, with its resultant Rev20:8b "the NUMBER of whom is as the sand of the sea" i.e. tons and tons and lotsa ppl! by the end of those 1000 yrs)

Wow!
I see you are making up things again that do not agree with Scripture.

 

[DRobinson]

I really need to step away from this thread.
Just hurts my mind when I read some of these post.

 

[Aaron56]

Agreed.

"ENOCH" (ONE MAN) is a type of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" (and this occurred well-before "judgment" [the flood judgment] unfolded upon the earth);





"Noah [and crew]" and "Lot," on the other hand, are examples used by Jesus (Matt24; Lk17) NOT of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" but of those saints who will exist on the earth in/during/within the Trib years LEADING UP TO His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, where those saints who survive to the end OF THAT will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, capable of bearing children / reproducing (just as in the days of Noah; Compare Gen9:1 with the wording in Dan2:35c "[actively] FILL / FILLED the [whole] earth").
Those saints who DIE in the Trib yrs, will be "resurrected ['to stand again' on the earth]," to be sure, but will be "as the angels" (not bearing children / reproducing, as the ones who will enter the MK age in their mortal bodies will have the capacity to do, with its resultant Rev20:8b "the NUMBER of whom is as the sand of the sea" i.e. tons and tons and lotsa ppl! by the end of those 1000 yrs)

Another analogy is the Jews under Egyptian bondage. As the angel of death came down the people under the blood of the lamb were spared.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I really need to step away from this thread.
Just hurts my mind when I read some of these post.

Please pray for them though. Most of them won't be able to endure to the end because they don't think they have to build up their faith for that. They won't realize that they could actually be a part of the great falling away and might not even recognize the revealing of the antichrist for what he really is.

There's a lot of signs in the world already that the end times can happen within our lifetimes - especially for the younger among us.


👑

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Wow!
I see you are making up things again that do not agree with Scripture.

When Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse (including the part about His Second Coming to the earth, vv.29-31, which "GREAT" trumpet parallels the CONTEXT of Isaiah 27:9,12-13--SEE THAT PASSAGE), He was nowhere referencing "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," as THAT was NOT His Subject, here;


... rather, His Subject in His Olivet Discourse (except for about 12 verses in Lk21 about the 70ad events [vv.12-24a,b]) HAD TO DO with His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age that will commence upon His "RETURN" there (to the earth)... and that which will immediately precede and LEAD UP to THAT (a specific, LIMITED "time-period").






So, in other words, in the "taken" and "left" passages (Mt24, Lk17, etc), the one "taken" will be "taken away IN JUDGMENT" (just as in Noah's day), by the "angels/REAPERS"; and the one "left" will be "LEFT [on the earth] to ENTER the earthly MK age [in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing/bearing children]" (just as in Noah's day);
That is, it was NOT "Noah" who "knew not UNTIL," but the ones who were JUDGED in the flood (who were "taken away" IN JUDGMENT; THIS is the CONTEXT of Jesus' words here in His Olivet Discourse and its parallel passages);
The disciples' Question of Him in Matt24:3 was BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN to them about back in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 [and 12:32] about "the END [singular] of the AGE [singular]" (when the angels will "REAP") and what will follow THAT.

(The CONTEXT is NOWHERE speaking of "our Rapture"--one must *READ* THAT BACK *INTO* His Olivet Discourse, for it is NOT the Subject He is covering ANYWHERE in it; Up to the time He spoke His Olivet Discourse [and throughout it], He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING regarding "our Rapture")

 

[Stan_the_Man]

I really need to step away from this thread.
Just hurts my mind when I read some of these post.

Here's some of God's medicine to help with that!

1 Peter 5:7
Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Philippians 4:6
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Isaiah 26:3
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

Psalms 55:22
Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

Care (found in 2 Corinthians 11:28)
from 3307 (through the idea of distraction); solicitude: KJV -- care.

Careful (found in Philippians 4:6, 1 Peter 5:7)
from 3308; to be anxious about: KJV -- (be, have) care(-ful), take thought.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I really need to step away from this thread.

That's really quite easy. You simply avoid/ignore a thread you are not interested in.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Up to the time He spoke His Olivet Discourse [and throughout it], He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING regarding "our Rapture")

One simply needs to note the difference between Matthew 24 and Matthew 25 to see this. The Olivet Discourse is all about events leading to the Second Coming of Christ (which actually reflect the events of the first six seals of Revelation).

But Matthew 25 speaks of (1) the Bridegroom coming for His Bride (the Rapture), (2) the future judgments of Christians and (3) the future judgements of the nations.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

One simply needs to note the difference between Matthew 24 and Matthew 25 to see this. The Olivet Discourse is all about events leading to the Second Coming of Christ (which actually reflect the events of the first six seals of Revelation).

But Matthew 25 speaks of (1) the Bridegroom coming for His Bride (the Rapture), (2) the future judgments of Christians and (3) the future judgements of the nations.

I believe Matthew 24-25 are all His Olivet Discourse. And the entire CONTEXT speaking of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (and the specific, limited time-period that precedes and leads up to THAT); IOW, EVERYTHING from Matt24:4 onward (through two chpts) is speaking to THAT context (i.e. from v.4 onward [including both chpts] is what FOLLOWS "our Rapture").



Another way to look at it: ALL "Son of man COMETH / COMING / SHALL COME / COMING OF / etc" is speaking of THIS (His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, to judge/rule and to reign [i.e. FOR the earthly MK age]);
so we see this phrase used throughout His Olivet Discourse (and parallels):
Matt24:27,30,37,39,44 (Lk12:40 parallel passage "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [vv.36-37,38,40], i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom, not TO BE WED!);
and Matt25:13,31 (parallel Mt19:28 / Lk22:30);
Mk13:26,34-36 (also parallel to Mt25:14, etc);
Matt13:[24,]41 (upon which passage the disciples LATER asked Him about in Matt24:3 and His response follows in 2 chpts);
Lk17:24,25,26,27,30 and 18:8... and there may be others.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^

Lk17:24,25,26,27,30 and 18:8... and there may be others.

Oh yeah (I knew I'd do this)... forgot to ADD:

Lk21:27,36

(as ALSO being part of those where the CONTEXT is "Son of man COMETH," referring to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH)

 

[Stan_the_Man]

Some people are not Crib Trib

They don't think any babies will be going thru the tribulation and will be raptured

And other are Lib Trib

They think all the liberals are going to have to go thru the tribulation as none of them will be raptured

 

[Lafftur]

I'm mid-Trib or pre-Wrath. Would love to know which view you have and why.

Hello,

I’m mid-trib because I believe Jesus Christ already fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 years.

The antichrist will get the final 3 1/2 years which will be the finality of the 70 weeks prophecy given to Daniel regarding Israel.

Believers that are ready with “extra oil and lamps lit” will go up in the rapture right before the antichrist enters the public arena.

God will be dealing with Israel during the time of the antichrist.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I’m mid-trib because I believe Jesus Christ already fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 years.

That would be rather bizarre, since those 3 1/2 years are assigned to the Antichrist. Please note carefully:

DANIEL 9: MESSIAH (CHRIST) IS NOT "THE PRINCE THAT SHALL COME" AFTER HIM
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah [Christ] be cut off [crucified], but not for himself [but for the sins of the whole world]:...

...and the people of the prince that shall come [the Antichrist] shall destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary [the temple]; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he [the Antichrist]shall confirm the covenant [a phony covenant] with many for one week [one heptad = 7 years]: and in the midst of the week [after 3 1/2 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [in a future temple], and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate [Christ spoke of the Abomination of Desolation], even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

How do we know that this is a future event and a future temple will stand in Jerusalem? Because Christ FIRST spoke of the existing second temple being destroyed by the Romans, and then -- in the Olivet Discourse -- He spoke of "the Holy Place" and the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation within that Holy Place. Now please note the sequence of events:

DESTRUCTION OF THE SECOND TEMPLE BY THE ROMANS (70 AD)
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (Mt 24:2)

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLALTION: A FUTURE EVENT
...When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:... (Mt 24:15.16). Why "flee into the mountains"? Because this blasphemous idol will trigger the Great Tribulation (see verse 21)

Paul then speaks of the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, sitting in the temple and claiming be be God. He is the one who also sets up the Abomination of Desolation (an animate image described in Revelation 13).

 

[Lafftur]

That would be rather bizarre, since those 3 1/2 years are assigned to the Antichrist. Please note carefully:

DANIEL 9: MESSIAH (CHRIST) IS NOT "THE PRINCE THAT SHALL COME" AFTER HIM
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah [Christ] be cut off [crucified], but not for himself [but for the sins of the whole world]:...

...and the people of the prince that shall come [the Antichrist] shall destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary [the temple]; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he [the Antichrist]shall confirm the covenant [a phony covenant] with many for one week [one heptad = 7 years]: and in the midst of the week [after 3 1/2 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [in a future temple], and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate [Christ spoke of the Abomination of Desolation], even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

How do we know that this is a future event and a future temple will stand in Jerusalem? Because Christ FIRST spoke of the existing second temple being destroyed by the Romans, and then -- in the Olivet Discourse -- He spoke of "the Holy Place" and the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation within that Holy Place. Now please note the sequence of events:

DESTRUCTION OF THE SECOND TEMPLE BY THE ROMANS (70 AD)
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (Mt 24:2)

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLALTION: A FUTURE EVENT
...When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:... (Mt 24:15.16). Why "flee into the mountains"? Because this blasphemous idol will trigger the Great Tribulation (see verse 21)

Paul then speaks of the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, sitting in the temple and claiming be be God. He is the one who also sets up the Abomination of Desolation (an animate image described in Revelation 13).

No, the final 7 years of Daniel’s prophecy is split in two sets of 3 1/2 years.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years by confirming the covenant of the Messiah the Savior the One that was to come and ONLY His sacrifice puts an end to all sacrifices. No more blood sacrifices needed.

Consider what Jesus Christ meant when He spoke to weeping women on His way to be crucified…

And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.

But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passag...,Luke.23.29,Luke.23.30,Luke.23.31&version=KJV

Jesus Christ refers to Himself (His 3 1/2 years of ministry) as the time of the “green tree” and the antichrist will be the last 3 1/2 years as the time of “the dry.”

 

[Nehemiah6]

No, the final 7 years of Daniel’s prophecy is split in two sets of 3 1/2 years.

I already showed you the split and who is responsible for the split. Does Christ set up the Abomination of Desolation or does the Antichrist? It is simply amazing how Christians do not understand these simple facts.

So please read what I posted again carefully and see that Christ was crucified in 30 AD (as per that prophecy), but this seven year period is in the future (which Christ Himself confirmed, and then Paul also did the same)