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You're not as funny as zone. Please try harder.
You guys haven't got a clue.... And you're impossible to try and discuss this with because you turn off like a brick wall, convinced you're right. Zone copy/pastes walls of text from people/groups just as wrong as she is, as though it somehow validates her. Error backed by error does not make truth.
This place is a den of vipers. Don't dare to disagree with the dominant posters. Y'all are pharisees but cannot even see it. Your intent is to put people with differing views out of your forum "temple", shout them down without even listening to what is being said.
I'll be around, but probably won't post much. What's the use? You guys have it all figured out.
Signed,
biblical-unitarian, dispensationalist, futurist, annihilationalist, premillennial, pretrib,, anti-cessationist, Shroom.
(I've believed essentially the same way for 35 years, and I never knew I was all those things until I started participating on Christian chat forums. I just thought I was a Christian)
See y'all at the (pretrib) rapture.
Acts 5:34ff
You guys haven't got a clue.... And you're impossible to try and discuss this with because you turn off like a brick wall, convinced you're right. Zone copy/pastes walls of text from people/groups just as wrong as she is, as though it somehow validates her. Error backed by error does not make truth.
This place is a den of vipers. Don't dare to disagree with the dominant posters. Y'all are pharisees but cannot even see it. Your intent is to put people with differing views out of your forum "temple", shout them down without even listening to what is being said.
I'll be around, but probably won't post much. What's the use? You guys have it all figured out.
Signed,
biblical-unitarian, dispensationalist, futurist, annihilationalist, premillennial, pretrib,, anti-cessationist, Shroom.
(I've believed essentially the same way for 35 years, and I never knew I was all those things until I started participating on Christian chat forums. I just thought I was a Christian)
See y'all at the (pretrib) rapture.
Acts 5:34ff
1
I tune out on that because I've read the entire OT from start to ending a few times. I know the historical time line of Israel. God exiled them due to their rebellion. That's what Ezekiel is about.
I can have a healthy debate about NT revelation oriented prophecy because that doesn't necessary have a debate proof fulfillment on some stuff.
A simple reading of the OT shows you all you need to know and shows you exactly who Ezekiel is addressing. This is like debating if the Earth is flat or if John Mccain has a head.
Yes the Earth is round. Yes Mccain is bald. Yes Ezekiel was written to Jews exiled to Babylon due to their rebellion. Yes God brought them back again, read Nehemiah and Ezra.
I can have a healthy debate about NT revelation oriented prophecy because that doesn't necessary have a debate proof fulfillment on some stuff.
A simple reading of the OT shows you all you need to know and shows you exactly who Ezekiel is addressing. This is like debating if the Earth is flat or if John Mccain has a head.
Yes the Earth is round. Yes Mccain is bald. Yes Ezekiel was written to Jews exiled to Babylon due to their rebellion. Yes God brought them back again, read Nehemiah and Ezra.
A
you know a really cool thread would be OT prophecies that are fulfilled through the life of Jesus.
thought about starting one but i'm not that organized. it could take months to go through all the chapter and verses alluding to the coming of Jesus and what He did comparing OT with NT verses, mixing in some historical content, etc.
oh shroom as for the wall of text it would be considered this method of "debate"
personally I only feel slightly motivated to comment on such postings since they may or may not reflect the posters actual beliefs.
thought about starting one but i'm not that organized. it could take months to go through all the chapter and verses alluding to the coming of Jesus and what He did comparing OT with NT verses, mixing in some historical content, etc.
oh shroom as for the wall of text it would be considered this method of "debate"
personally I only feel slightly motivated to comment on such postings since they may or may not reflect the posters actual beliefs.
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for a guy who doesn't like internet links...where'd you get these quotes EG?
did you know certain interested parties have created myths about what Luther did NOT say?
Ten Martin Luther Myths
06/30/2007 - James Swan
I regularly get e-mail from people I don't know asking questions about Martin Luther. I've even had people contact me in the hopes I will help write their research papers for school (I will not!). Recently, I was sent a few Luther questions, and I was amazed certain myths still circulate. Despite the explosion of cyber-information, here are ten that somehow still survive.
1. Luther Threw an Inkwell at Satan
Recently I found a Jehovah's Witness attempting to prove Luther was a psychopath. He brought up the story in which Luther hurled an inkwell at Satan. The story is not true. It first appeared towards the end of the sixteenth century, and is said to have been told by a former Wittenberg student. In this early version, the Devil in the guise of a monk threw an inkwell at Luther while he was secluded in the Wartburg. By 1650, the story shifted to Luther throwing the inkwell at Satan. Like any bizarre legend, the story morphed, and houses where Luther stayed had spots on the walls, and these were also said to be inkwells that Luther threw at the Devil.
2. Luther's Evangelical Breakthrough Occurred in the Bathroom
This same Jehovah's Witness denigrated Luther by repeating a newer myth, that Luther's understanding of Romans 1:17-18 came to him while in the bathroom in the tower of the Augustinian cloister. In the twentieth century, many approached Luther by applying psychoanalysis to his writings. Psychologist Eric Erikson took a German phrase uttered by Luther and interpreted it literally to mean Luther was in the bathroom when he had his evangelical breakthrough. Erikson concluded, from a Freudian perspective, Luther's spiritual issues were tied up with biological functions. But, there was not a bathroom in the tower. The phrase Erikson interpreted literally in German was simply conventional speech. Luther really was saying that his breakthrough came during a time when he was depressed, or in a state of melancholy.
3. Luther Repented and Re-entered the Church on his Deathbed
I've come across this one on popular Catholic discussion boards. No, it is not true. One of Luther's early opponents popularized the account that Luther was a child of the Devil, and was taken directly to Hell when he died. Now though, more ecumenically minded Catholics hope for the ultimate in conversion stories. Luther died around 3:00 AM on February 18, 1546. His last words and actions were recorded by his friend Justus Jonas. Luther was asked, "Reverend father, will you die steadfast in Christ and the doctrines you have preached?" Luther responded affirmatively. Luther also quoted John 3:16 and Psalm 31:5. In his last prayer he said to God, "Yet I know as a certainty that I shall live with you eternally and that no one shall be able to pluck me out of your hands." These are hardly the words of a Roman Catholic waiting to enter purgatory.
4. Luther's Hymns Were Originally Tavern Songs
Some involved in Contemporary Christian Music use this argument to validate contemporary styles of music being used in church: if even the great Martin Luther found value in contemporary music being used in Church, shouldn't we likewise do the same? In actuality, Luther used only one popular folk tune, I Came From An Alien Country, changed the words, and named the hymn, From Heaven On High, I Come to You. Four years after he did this, he changed the music to an original composition.
5. Luther Spoke in Tongues
Charismatic cyber-apologists have put this one out. They refer to an old quote from a German historian who stated, "Luther was easily the greatest evangelical man after the apostles, full of inner love to the Lord like John, hasty in deed like Peter, deep in thinking like Paul, cunning and powerful in speech like Elijah, uncompromising against God's enemies like David; PROPHET and evangelist, speaker-in-tongues and interpreter in one person, equipped with all the gifts of grace, a light and pillar of the church..." Luther though held, "Tongues are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers. But later on, when the church had been gathered and confirmed by these signs, it was not necessary for this visible sending forth of the Holy Spirit to continue."
6. Luther Added The Word Alone To Romans 3:28
This is frequently brought up by the zealous defenders of Rome. Luther is said to have been so careless and outrageous with his translation of the Bible, he simply added words to make the Bible say what he wanted it to. Luther gave a detailed explanation of why the passage has the meaning of alone,and this explanation has been available online for years. This charge also shows an ignorance of church history. Roman Catholic writer Joseph A. Fitzmyer points out, "...[T]wo of the points that Luther made in his defense of the added adverb were that it was demanded by the context and that sola was used in the theological tradition before him." Fitzmyer lists the following: Origen, Hillary, Basil, Ambrosiaster, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, Bernard, Theophylact, Theodoret, Thomas Aquinas, Theodore of Mopsuestia, Marius Victorinus, and Augustine [Joseph A. Fitzmyer Romans, A New Translation with introduction and Commentary, The Anchor Bible Series (New York: Doubleday, 1993) 360-361].
7. Luther Was an Antinomian and Hated the Law of God
Recently a friend wrote me and said charges about Luther being an antinomian were circulating in his church. Luther's theology indeed has a place for the law of God and its use in the life of a Christian. The law for Luther was dual purposed: it first drives one to see their sin and need for a savior; secondly it functions in the life of a Christian to lead one to a correct understanding of the good one ought to do. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Luther knows how important Moses and the law was in his theology. In Luther's Small Catechism the Ten Commandments were placed first because he wanted people to understand that God is wrathful against sin. The negative prohibitions in the Ten Commandments clearly showed our need for a savior. Also in his Small Catechism, Luther suggests a daily regiment of prayer and includes a verbal reading of the Ten Commandments.
8. Luther Acted Like a Protestant Pope
Catholic apologists perpetuate this one. They tend to reduce everything to a need for an infallible interpreter. They use highly rhetorical or polemical comments from Luther out of context, rather than those statements when Luther evaluates his value and his work. Toward the end of his life, Luther reviewed his work and stated, "My consolation is that, in time, my books will lie forgotten in the dust anyhow, especially if I (by Gods grace) have written anything good." And also, "I would have been quite content to see my books, one and all, remain in obscurity and go by the board" [LW 34: 283-284].
9. Luther Was a Drunk
The historical record nowhere documents Luther ever being drunk. It does provide evidence that he did drink alcohol, and that he enjoyed drinking. One needs only to survey the massive output of work that Luther produced to settle the matter that he was not an alcoholic, nor did he have a drinking problem. Luther preached and wrote against drunkenness throughout his entire life with vigor and force.
10. Luther Said Imputed Righteousness is Like Snow Covered Dung
I saved this one for last, simply because I'm not sure if it's a myth or not. It does seem to me like something Luther would've said: "Therefore let us embrace Christ, who was delivered for us, and His righteousness; but let us regard our righteousness as dung, so that we, having died to sins, may live to God alone" [LW 30:294]. "Explanation of Martin Luther: I said before that our righteousness is dung in the sight of God. Now if God chooses to adorn dung, he can do so. It does not hurt the sun, because it sends its rays into the sewer" [LW 34: 184].
Ten Martin Luther Myths
lets do a little research...i have a good source.
that quotes Luther on the jews before he found the Talmud.
what he may have said afterwards is another matter.
but i'll tell you what you have posted has been thoroughly DEBUNKED.
did you know certain interested parties have created myths about what Luther did NOT say?
Ten Martin Luther Myths
06/30/2007 - James Swan
I regularly get e-mail from people I don't know asking questions about Martin Luther. I've even had people contact me in the hopes I will help write their research papers for school (I will not!). Recently, I was sent a few Luther questions, and I was amazed certain myths still circulate. Despite the explosion of cyber-information, here are ten that somehow still survive.
1. Luther Threw an Inkwell at Satan
Recently I found a Jehovah's Witness attempting to prove Luther was a psychopath. He brought up the story in which Luther hurled an inkwell at Satan. The story is not true. It first appeared towards the end of the sixteenth century, and is said to have been told by a former Wittenberg student. In this early version, the Devil in the guise of a monk threw an inkwell at Luther while he was secluded in the Wartburg. By 1650, the story shifted to Luther throwing the inkwell at Satan. Like any bizarre legend, the story morphed, and houses where Luther stayed had spots on the walls, and these were also said to be inkwells that Luther threw at the Devil.
2. Luther's Evangelical Breakthrough Occurred in the Bathroom
This same Jehovah's Witness denigrated Luther by repeating a newer myth, that Luther's understanding of Romans 1:17-18 came to him while in the bathroom in the tower of the Augustinian cloister. In the twentieth century, many approached Luther by applying psychoanalysis to his writings. Psychologist Eric Erikson took a German phrase uttered by Luther and interpreted it literally to mean Luther was in the bathroom when he had his evangelical breakthrough. Erikson concluded, from a Freudian perspective, Luther's spiritual issues were tied up with biological functions. But, there was not a bathroom in the tower. The phrase Erikson interpreted literally in German was simply conventional speech. Luther really was saying that his breakthrough came during a time when he was depressed, or in a state of melancholy.
3. Luther Repented and Re-entered the Church on his Deathbed
I've come across this one on popular Catholic discussion boards. No, it is not true. One of Luther's early opponents popularized the account that Luther was a child of the Devil, and was taken directly to Hell when he died. Now though, more ecumenically minded Catholics hope for the ultimate in conversion stories. Luther died around 3:00 AM on February 18, 1546. His last words and actions were recorded by his friend Justus Jonas. Luther was asked, "Reverend father, will you die steadfast in Christ and the doctrines you have preached?" Luther responded affirmatively. Luther also quoted John 3:16 and Psalm 31:5. In his last prayer he said to God, "Yet I know as a certainty that I shall live with you eternally and that no one shall be able to pluck me out of your hands." These are hardly the words of a Roman Catholic waiting to enter purgatory.
4. Luther's Hymns Were Originally Tavern Songs
Some involved in Contemporary Christian Music use this argument to validate contemporary styles of music being used in church: if even the great Martin Luther found value in contemporary music being used in Church, shouldn't we likewise do the same? In actuality, Luther used only one popular folk tune, I Came From An Alien Country, changed the words, and named the hymn, From Heaven On High, I Come to You. Four years after he did this, he changed the music to an original composition.
5. Luther Spoke in Tongues
Charismatic cyber-apologists have put this one out. They refer to an old quote from a German historian who stated, "Luther was easily the greatest evangelical man after the apostles, full of inner love to the Lord like John, hasty in deed like Peter, deep in thinking like Paul, cunning and powerful in speech like Elijah, uncompromising against God's enemies like David; PROPHET and evangelist, speaker-in-tongues and interpreter in one person, equipped with all the gifts of grace, a light and pillar of the church..." Luther though held, "Tongues are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers. But later on, when the church had been gathered and confirmed by these signs, it was not necessary for this visible sending forth of the Holy Spirit to continue."
6. Luther Added The Word Alone To Romans 3:28
This is frequently brought up by the zealous defenders of Rome. Luther is said to have been so careless and outrageous with his translation of the Bible, he simply added words to make the Bible say what he wanted it to. Luther gave a detailed explanation of why the passage has the meaning of alone,and this explanation has been available online for years. This charge also shows an ignorance of church history. Roman Catholic writer Joseph A. Fitzmyer points out, "...[T]wo of the points that Luther made in his defense of the added adverb were that it was demanded by the context and that sola was used in the theological tradition before him." Fitzmyer lists the following: Origen, Hillary, Basil, Ambrosiaster, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, Bernard, Theophylact, Theodoret, Thomas Aquinas, Theodore of Mopsuestia, Marius Victorinus, and Augustine [Joseph A. Fitzmyer Romans, A New Translation with introduction and Commentary, The Anchor Bible Series (New York: Doubleday, 1993) 360-361].
7. Luther Was an Antinomian and Hated the Law of God
Recently a friend wrote me and said charges about Luther being an antinomian were circulating in his church. Luther's theology indeed has a place for the law of God and its use in the life of a Christian. The law for Luther was dual purposed: it first drives one to see their sin and need for a savior; secondly it functions in the life of a Christian to lead one to a correct understanding of the good one ought to do. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Luther knows how important Moses and the law was in his theology. In Luther's Small Catechism the Ten Commandments were placed first because he wanted people to understand that God is wrathful against sin. The negative prohibitions in the Ten Commandments clearly showed our need for a savior. Also in his Small Catechism, Luther suggests a daily regiment of prayer and includes a verbal reading of the Ten Commandments.
8. Luther Acted Like a Protestant Pope
Catholic apologists perpetuate this one. They tend to reduce everything to a need for an infallible interpreter. They use highly rhetorical or polemical comments from Luther out of context, rather than those statements when Luther evaluates his value and his work. Toward the end of his life, Luther reviewed his work and stated, "My consolation is that, in time, my books will lie forgotten in the dust anyhow, especially if I (by Gods grace) have written anything good." And also, "I would have been quite content to see my books, one and all, remain in obscurity and go by the board" [LW 34: 283-284].
9. Luther Was a Drunk
The historical record nowhere documents Luther ever being drunk. It does provide evidence that he did drink alcohol, and that he enjoyed drinking. One needs only to survey the massive output of work that Luther produced to settle the matter that he was not an alcoholic, nor did he have a drinking problem. Luther preached and wrote against drunkenness throughout his entire life with vigor and force.
10. Luther Said Imputed Righteousness is Like Snow Covered Dung
I saved this one for last, simply because I'm not sure if it's a myth or not. It does seem to me like something Luther would've said: "Therefore let us embrace Christ, who was delivered for us, and His righteousness; but let us regard our righteousness as dung, so that we, having died to sins, may live to God alone" [LW 30:294]. "Explanation of Martin Luther: I said before that our righteousness is dung in the sight of God. Now if God chooses to adorn dung, he can do so. It does not hurt the sun, because it sends its rays into the sewer" [LW 34: 184].
Ten Martin Luther Myths
lets do a little research...i have a good source.
that quotes Luther on the jews before he found the Talmud.
what he may have said afterwards is another matter.
but i'll tell you what you have posted has been thoroughly DEBUNKED.
E
Yet ezek 36 and 37 could not be the restoration from babylon. Because God says they are scattered all over the world. He also says they will have one king, live in peace, and be so self conscious of the sin they had done against God they will not sin any more.
Non of this has happened yet.
During the babylonian captivity. Many jews were even left in Israel. Babylon even made a king of one of them/. (a puppet) Where in the end of ezekial, God says no one will be left. This did not happen until AD 70
Non of this has happened yet.
During the babylonian captivity. Many jews were even left in Israel. Babylon even made a king of one of them/. (a puppet) Where in the end of ezekial, God says no one will be left. This did not happen until AD 70
E
well thats interesting. Ten myths supposedly debunked. But not a one of them debunked what I wrote.
My God zone! Have you lost it.
when are you going to answer me about the covenant? You asked me twice. I proved it to you twice. And you have not even responded? Why?
The catholics were very anti jewish. Luther was a former catholic. Where do you think he got his hatred of the jews? What is this. everything that goes against your belief is a fraud. everything that goes with it is from God??
and by the way. I heard about those things luther wrote LONG before the internet was even around. It is not somethign I just DUG UP
My God zone! Have you lost it.
when are you going to answer me about the covenant? You asked me twice. I proved it to you twice. And you have not even responded? Why?
The catholics were very anti jewish. Luther was a former catholic. Where do you think he got his hatred of the jews? What is this. everything that goes against your belief is a fraud. everything that goes with it is from God??
and by the way. I heard about those things luther wrote LONG before the internet was even around. It is not somethign I just DUG UP
Ain't gonna happen, zonester.
He is the only begotten Son of God, the second Adam (who did it right), my Lord and savior, a man.
1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
He is the only begotten Son of God, the second Adam (who did it right), my Lord and savior, a man.
1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
E
of course God can not die. Thats why he had to "empty himself" and make himself lower than the angels. God can not sin or be tempted either. He gave up everything so he could come and save us. people do not realise the cost. that is why it is so horrible when people try to think they can work to earn there salvation. they mock what Christ did. He did alot more than just die on the cross!