The Problem With Grace

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HistoryPrincess

Senior Member
#1
Feb 20, 2016
1,154
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83
#1
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
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#2
What you are feeling is the direct result of a mistaken notion that your sin is less heinous than someone else’s, so you deserve God’s forgiveness while they don’t. The hard reality is that you don’t deserve it either.

I would encourage you to read the parable of the unmerciful servant (Matthew 18:21-35). Put yourself in the place of the titular character; that’s how you’re acting.

Sorry for being blunt; I too had to learn this the hard way. :)
 
Isny

Isny

Senior Member
#3
Jan 15, 2017
2,544
2,651
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#3
[QUOTE="HistoryPrincess....
However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.
I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!![/QUOTE]
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God knows every person far better than we do. I really believe we should not think about who will or will not go to Heaven. We are not qualified to make that determination. Let's let God be the gatekeeper! Blessings to you and your family. :)
 
H

HistoryPrincess

Senior Member
#4
Feb 20, 2016
1,154
266
83
#4
Dino246 said:
What you are feeling is the direct result of a mistaken notion that your sin is less heinous than someone else’s, so you deserve God’s forgiveness while they don’t. The hard reality is that you don’t deserve it either.

I would encourage you to read the parable of the unmerciful servant (Matthew 18:21-35). Put yourself in the place of the titular character; that’s how you’re acting.

Sorry for being blunt; I too had to learn this the hard way. :)
Click to expand...
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know it was a sin to point out sin! Apparently, sin doesn't even exist!
 
selahsays

selahsays

Well-known member
#5
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#5
HistoryPrincess said:
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
Click to expand...
Hi, @HistoryPrincess First of all, there’s no reason to fret or become angry or bitter. I think you’re mistaken because the Bible clearly teaches that not everyone will be forgiven/have eternal life in heaven. You might want to study a little bit regarding the “second death.” Please take care not to bring accusations against our merciful Creator. Isn’t it better to let God be the judge?

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

- 2 Corinthians 5:10
 
selahsays

selahsays

Well-known member
#6
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#6
@HistoryPrincess
And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

- Revelation 21:6-8
 
H

HistoryPrincess

Senior Member
#7
Feb 20, 2016
1,154
266
83
#7
selahsays said:
Hi, @HistoryPrincess First of all, there’s no reason to fret or become angry or bitter. I think you’re mistaken because the Bible clearly teaches that not everyone will be forgiven/have eternal life in heaven. You might want to study a little bit regarding the “second death.” Please take care not to bring accusations against our merciful Creator. Isn’t it better to let God be the judge?

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

- 2 Corinthians 5:10
Click to expand...
Yes. You're right. But I also believe God gave me a strong sense of right and wrong. When Moses saw that the Israelites were worshipping the Golden Calf, he broke the tablets ('cause the law had been broken). Was he right to be angry? Was he right to tell the Levites to take every person who participated in this (people whom the Levites loved) and put them to the sword? How mean! How ungracious!

No. They were an infection that needed to be purged!

I'm not calling for such behavior now. But God is not mocked!
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#8
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#8
HistoryPrincess said:
The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.
Click to expand...
But unless all the evildoers repent, they will be in Hell. Grace is offered on two conditions (1) repentance toward God and (2) faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance demands a total forsaking of sin and evil (and unbelief) in order to live righteously after salvation. So how did you forget this truth, which is plainly there?
 
R

rrcn

Active member
#10
Oct 15, 2023
470
144
43
#10
HistoryPrincess said:
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
Click to expand...
In many prisons the gospel is available as a means of rehabilitation, there are apps (pando is one) that presents sermons to inmates on demand.
Never underestimate Jesus, check out Acts chapter 22, that is Paul’s testimony.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#11
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#11
HistoryPrincess said:
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.
Click to expand...
How is one saved if they do not believe in grace?

HistoryPrincess said:
However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.
Click to expand...
Actually, the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin. I thought you knew your Bible. And you should have known that the Apostle Paul took part in the imprisonment and stoning to deach of Christians BEFORE he was saved by the GRACE of God.

Scripture is clear if you are guilty of ONE sin, you are guilty of ALL sin,

HistoryPrincess said:
And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!
Click to expand...
Denying Gods grace, which is what the New Covenant is based on may well take of your disdain for the Heaven God has created for ALL who believe in Jesus and become heirs to the Promise. (just saying)

I do not mind being blunt, because I find your OP to be distasteful at best, and disgusting at worst as if you were the one to determine who deserves salvation and who does not.

What church group are you a part of?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#12
Mar 1, 2022
19,184
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#12
How do you feel about the Apostle Paul? He was a serial killer.
 
R

rrcn

Active member
#13
Oct 15, 2023
470
144
43
#13
p_rehbein said:
How is one saved if they do not believe in grace?



Actually, the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin. I thought you knew your Bible. And you should have known that the Apostle Paul took part in the imprisonment and stoning to deach of Christians BEFORE he was saved by the GRACE of God.

Scripture is clear if you are guilty of ONE sin, you are guilty of ALL sin,



Denying Gods grace, which is what the New Covenant is based on may well take of your disdain for the Heaven God has created for ALL who believe in Jesus and become heirs to the Promise. (just saying)

I do not mind being blunt, because I find your OP to be distasteful at best, and disgusting at worst as if you were the one to determine who deserves salvation and who does not.

What church group are you a part of?
Click to expand...
[Pro 15:1 KJV] 1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
The lady is going thru a trial or has questions that we may not understand. We should try to be a little more patient.
Prisoners feel like rejects and outcast of society, much like the leper, notice that Jesus touched him.

[Mar 1:40-42 KJV] 40 And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down to him, and saying unto him, If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 41 And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth [his] hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean. 42 And as soon as he had spoken, immediately the leprosy departed from him, and he was cleansed.

I was going to suggest she consider a prison ministry and see her opinions might change.
 
R

rrcn

Active member
#14
Oct 15, 2023
470
144
43
#14
HistoryPrincess said:
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
Click to expand...

[Mat 25:34-40 KJV] 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#15
Jan 18, 2011
12,317
6,689
113
#15
rrcn said:
[Pro 15:1 KJV] 1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
The lady is going thru a trial or has questions that we may not understand. We should try to be a little more patient.
Prisoners feel like rejects and outcast of society, much like the leper, notice that Jesus touched him.

[Mar 1:40-42 KJV] 40 And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down to him, and saying unto him, If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 41 And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth [his] hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean. 42 And as soon as he had spoken, immediately the leprosy departed from him, and he was cleansed.

I was going to suggest she consider a prison ministry and see her opinions might change.
Click to expand...
i support a prison ministry ( prison fellowship is it's name).

they show letters from prisoners , and they are so inspiring and uplifting to read...
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#16
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
13,783
113
#16
HistoryPrincess said:
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know it was a sin to point out sin! Apparently, sin doesn't even exist!
Click to expand...
I didn't suggest anything of the sort. I just pointed out yours, and I'm guessing you didn't appreciate it. That's understandable, but rejecting the truth of my statement doesn't get you closer to right standing with the Lord. ;)
 
Eli1

Eli1

Well-known member
#17
Apr 5, 2022
4,758
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#17
HistoryPrincess said:
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
Click to expand...
Try a different denomination which might have a different understanding of salvation.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#18
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#18
rrcn said:
[Pro 15:1 KJV] 1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
The lady is going thru a trial or has questions that we may not understand. We should try to be a little more patient.
Prisoners feel like rejects and outcast of society, much like the leper, notice that Jesus touched him.
Click to expand...
Trial or not. She was quite blunt in condemning the kind of heaven God has created. Sometimes it is necessary to speak plainly. Jesus knew and did this on many an occasion. The open condemnation of Gods saving grace is not something to simply be "kindly" about IMO. But, hey, to each his own.
 
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