Does thought(s) actually control us

[GaryA]

The numbers look correct. In which of those verses does 'thought' appear more than once?

(Hint: there are 5 verses in which it appears exactly twice in each verse.)

Isaiah 55:8
Isaiah 55:9
Isaiah 59:7
Jeremiah 29:11
Matthew 6:34

 

[GaryA]

For what it may be worth:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...d-vs-heart-knowledge.46568/page-6#post-970494

 

[HeIsHere]

For what it may be worth:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...d-vs-heart-knowledge.46568/page-6#post-970494

Interesting thread.

Although some men such as Aristotle taught that thought came from the brain, it wasn’t generally accepted until about 1,500AD. Scripture was written for the understanding of the people of the time it was written, so often when scripture says “heart” it refers to our thoughts. We still say we will "learn by heart" even though we know it is our brain that controls memorization.

Agree with RedTent, heart and mind are the same, it is different language used at it different times. The actual heart is an organ in the body.

"Heart" in scripture means the seat of man, his very core.

The question is what is consciousness, that is where the debate lies is it in the mind or something intangible?

 

[The_old_guy]

A carnal mind isn't just someone who isn't saved,but a worldly mind that goes to and fro on the earth as satan when asked where did he come from.
That's exactly what the mind does.Think of it as Jesus when he was tempted by satan.He's the head of the church.If you want to make him the head of your temple/church,the foundation of your thoughts and actions should be rooted on his word.They should be on Jesus.
Nobody is perfect and the carnal mind will wonder to and fro on the the things of the earth temping you.
If you call a Christian carnal minded they'll get offended because most think that only unborn again people are carnal minded.
Giving into a carnal mind can be as simple as stressing out over something.
People can be tempted by a carnal mind daily.

John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

 

[The_old_guy]

Regardless, Jesus calls us to give all our reasoning, feelings, and deciding over to him to rule. That's the constant struggle of the Christian life. We can begin and continue doing it by claiming Jesus' victory in his death to sin and rising for our new life.

 

[Burn1986]

Proverbs 23:7
for as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be
James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

I see, 'I" have done this verse above, anyone else? Of coarse I want, need, y'all "I" bet too

What is better in need?
To let go of doing what one knows is right, or give that up to have a place to live in?
It would be better for the below verses to include man in those verses too. Yet it did not get translated as that did it. Even though God called Adam's help-mate Adam. Adam called Her Eve, Bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh
\No separating male and female IMOP

1. Proverbs 21:9
   It is better to live in the corner of an attic than with a crabby woman in a lovely home.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Proverbs 25:24
   It is better to live in a corner of an attic than in a beautiful home with a cranky, quarrelsome woman.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Kings 4:21-23

Authorized (King James) Version

21 And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life.
22 And Solomon’s provision for one day was thirty measures of fine flour, and threescore measures of meal, 23 ten fat oxen, and twenty oxen out of the pastures, and an hundred sheep, beside harts, and roebucks, and fallowdeer, and fatted fowl.

Why did Solomon get all this surplus, I know it was from God and so do we all. Why did God do this fro Solomon?

Because Solomon only wanted what is best for the people. Wisdom to judge correctly.
As their were two women, claiming the same baby, and that put Solomon in a betwixt.

God told Solomon what to say as we are told this today


Luke 21:14-15

Authorized (King James) Version

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Seeking, daily for God Father's lead in risen
Son Jesus for me and y'all, I hope too, thank you

Out of all this what topic are you wanting clarification on? Is the question - 1) stay at home with a contentious woman, or 2) get out of the house so you can think?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Matthew 25:21
Thank you for the inspiration .

Awe Thank you as always for your inspired talent that you share I adore this and it will be on my screen thing indefinately !! Thank you sister I know it takes time and effort to create those and it’s truly appreciated from my heart . You are and always have been a blessing Thank you truly

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A carnal mind isn't just someone who isn't saved,but a worldly mind that goes to and fro on the earth as satan when asked where did he come from.
That's exactly what the mind does.Think of it as Jesus when he was tempted by satan.He's the head of the church.If you want to make him the head of your temple/church,the foundation of your thoughts and actions should be rooted on his word.They should be on Jesus.
Nobody is perfect and the carnal mind will wonder to and fro on the the things of the earth temping you.
If you call a Christian carnal minded they'll get offended because most think that only unborn again people are carnal minded.
Giving into a carnal mind can be as simple as stressing out over something.
People can be tempted by a carnal mind daily.

John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Amen Paul’s letters arent written to teach doctrine to non believers , but to people who had already believed and joined the church.

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free

from the law of sin and death.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

…But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2, 5-6, 9-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

pauos telling believers this who heard the gospel and believes prior to his letter

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To accept and believe the gospel saves us and also is Gods power to exchange our sin for righteousness as we hear and believe and grow in faith.

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free

from the law of sin and death.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

…But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2, 5-6, 9-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Romans 8:1-2; 5:57 + 58b

John 8:36 plus Romans 8:2 If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Magenta]

Awe Thank you as always for your inspired talent that you share I adore this and it will be on my screen thing indefinately !! Thank you sister I know it takes time and effort to create those and it’s truly appreciated from my heart . You are and always have been a blessing Thank you truly

You are ever so very much welcome, bro! I just counted the number of faces hair elements eyes etc that I tried and did not use for that panel and there are over 60!!! LOL. That's a lot. I finally just went and got new ephemera, starting with this face, and then changing the eyes and mouth, hat etc. I am glad you like it, and designing this panel has helped to bring me out of my hiatus a bit more... So thank you!!!

 

[Sipsey]

The question was whether or not our thoughts control us. Of course desires aren't thoughts. I simply said I believe that it is thoughts filtered through the prism of the understanding of the heart that directs the thoughts into action.

Filtered or no, are they not still thoughts?

 

[Cameron143]

Filtered or no, are they not still thoughts?

No. I just Googled synonyms for thoughts. Desire wasn't on the list. Now I wouldn't exactly call this definitive evidence, but it's a start.

 

[Burn1986]

No. I just Googled synonyms for thoughts. Desire wasn't on the list. Now I wouldn't exactly call this definitive evidence, but it's a start.

That was actually smart

 

[maxwel]

I think, emotions respond to thought. Therefore whatever a person thinks, so is he (Proverbs 23:7)
Thought to this day has not been found in our brains. Eye sight, feelings of, hearing, touch etc.
Thought I do believe comes from the Heart. Either one's heart gets seen as evil by the first born person and in need of new life, which is the risen Jesus Christ for us the people to get given the new heart, offered by belief, 100%. Ezekiel 36:26. God gives it. I need to be dead to the first born me, reckoned this as in Romans 6:1-12

Me I see this, I am in a body of unredeemed flesh and blood, that fallen nature of the first Adam. Which is why man cannot be perfect to fulfill Law, man can do a few, some many, yet not all. yet can't be perfect, no flesh can or could but Son Jesus, (Romans 8:1-3) who was born of Woman, not man
Back to Emotions

Emotions, do not know any right or wrong. Emotions, predictably respond to whatever is in the mind at that moment of that person, and it is by thought one is controlled in emotions over the thought, happening in the mind at that time.
Try this/ Get Angry, mad Upset, right now. without the thought(s) of anger, upset's!
That is why, we are to take all thought captive to the mind of Christ.
Hoping, to help us grow deeper in the grace given us to see it clearer. Then see the other side of the double edged sword. And know God is sharper than any double edged sword.
The other side of the command to not sin, where sin takes occasion by the commandment to not do, one does it anyways. Romans 7
Then one learns not to do it and stops, EX: drinking too much. Then Pride tries to take you for a ride and make you a "Betty better than you" (Luke 18:9-14)
Guilt and pride are not of God. God hates, guilt and pride that evil gets us into doing evil, by commanding one to not do it. Sin happened before the Commandments, and after that sin got worse, being made aware of Sin. Yet God's Grace abounds deeper, for us to leave the command alone and simply uphold it s best for you to be in it by God for you, not self flesh or anyone else's either
By God through risen Son , where the new life is at, now able to say no freely. Is Real. Yet once one sees this and chooses this truth, sin does begin to fall off of them, that had them trapped in it. Yet it take=s time, in continuance to continue to trust God, that you remain in thanksgiving and praise for the grace given. (2 Cor 12:7-10) by God forgiven and are learning new, now wiping out bad habits that developed in you prior to seeing the truth of God, (it is no longer you trying to do it, it is God in risen Son now doing it new through you. In, It is finished for you on that cross of Son. God wiped out all sin, then and there, so we can have a relationship, with you, to see what God tell's us is best for us. To become willing to do or not do. To learn it is God alive living the new you through you, only if you are willing between God and you
Thank you

Bottom line, the born again, cannot harm people anymore. Yet it does not take away the thought(s) of wanting to harm or hurt or manipulate for self gain. That is the reality y'all

1.) I think you're appealing to some fairly arbitrary and subjective definitions of words (e.g. emotions, thoughts, heart etc..)

2.) When we have our own subjective definitions for words, we can find whatever meaning we want.... and then we can use that to build whatever conclusion we want.

3.) As we work at defining these terms more carefully, we may reach some different conclusions.



Have a great week.

.

 

[maxwel]

A desire is a want.

I didn't realize we were debating. I thought we were engaged in a discussion. I have no problem defining terms as I understand them or answering questions to give additional information or clarify what I have shared. But I'm not debating anyone when I post here. I'm learning and sharing what I have learned.

What's in a name?

When people have a "discussion" around a thesis, in which they have divergent views, and they ask each other questions, and give each other answers, and challenge each other's responses while making a case for their preferred view... that pretty much fits the definition of a friendly, informal DEBATE.

You are free to call it whatever you like.


In this forum you regularly take an opposing view to other members, challenge them, rebut them, and give counter arguments in order to forward your own view... most people would call this thing you do all the time... a debate.


Again, you are free to call it whatever you like.... any name works fine for me.

"What's in a name? That which we call a debate by any other name would smell as sweet."
- Debatespeare

.

 

[Burn1986]

Generally with God you 1) Act the way you want to feel and the feeling will follow. It’s tough sometimes

 

[maxwel]

Cameron, one more thing.

Having a "friendly debate" or "spirited discussion" or whatever you want to call these things... it doesn't, for me, indicate any other opinions or feelings beyond the discussion itself.

I generally agree with your views on almost everything, and I always consider you a good guy. And that doesn't change when I nitpick some odd little bit of doctrinal strangeness... even when I'm giving you a hard time about it.
: )

Have a great week.

.

 

[Cameron143]

Cameron, one more thing.

Having a "friendly debate" or "spirited discussion" or whatever you want to call these things... it doesn't, for me, indicate any other opinions or feelings beyond the discussion itself.

I generally agree with your views on almost everything, and I always consider you a good guy. And that doesn't change when I nitpick some odd little bit of doctrinal strangeness... even when I'm giving you a hard time about it.
: )

Have a great week.

.

I never thought otherwise. Grace and peace.

 

[Burn1986]

Pretty sure OP exited thread

 

[Sipsey]

I found myself in SE Asia during the good ole days of ree-to-reel recordings. There was free reels of music to be listened to at a small building on base. Someone told me i should check out a song by the Funkadelics. It had a risqué title that i shall slightly alter. “Free your mind, and your butt will follow.” I always found the title to be somewhat profound. The Bible talks about being truly free, and for some strange reason, this title reminds me of that Biblical truth.