Eastern Orthodoxy is not Talmud Pharisaism (Mishnaism).

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NitzWalsh

Guest
Quite frankly it doesn't much matter what you identify as, what matters is what you believe. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...



Seeing as these are age old assertions I'll post links to articles that address each of these issues.

1.Do Catholics Worship Statues?
2. Immaculate Conception and Assumption
3.Mary: Ever Virgin
4.Praying to the Saints
5.Call No Man "Father"?
6.Peter the Rock

Okay I read it, I already knew half the arguments on there, but that's okay...

The Catholic use of statues appears to me to be idol worship when I see people bowing down in front of them in prayer and kissing them. I never said you couldn't have artwork, it's like I said, the bowing down and kissing part that makes it seem like idol worship. I've never seen anyone kneeling down praying to and worshipping the bible like this article says, but I haven't seen every person in the world do whatever they do. I'm sorry I can't look at what the Catholic church does with images as anything other than idol worship.

The assumption of Mary is not supported by the scriptures, only by Catholic tradition, and since the Catholic church has no foundation to stand on(see my post about Peter not being the Rock) all of the Catholic traditions are automatically called into question.

As far as the Ever Virgin, there are plenty of scriptures that talk about how Mary had other children and at least one that talks about Joseph not knowing Mary until after Jesus was born, so no, Mary wasn't always a virgin.

I can't see Praying to the Saints as anything other than trying to communicate with God through someone (a dead person at that) other than Jesus Christ. To me it screams necromancy, contacting spirits of the dead in order to get something from them.

I don't agree with the article on calling no man father, it lists scriptures that have other people using the term father in a completely different context from what the priests called father are in, so it doesn't work. You can go on about people calling there dad's father, but that isn't going to work either because it's a completely different context. You have to look at it in context and the context in which you see the Catholic Priests being called Father is exactly the context that we are forbidden to use it in.

And I already covered the one about Peter in a different post.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
Okay I read it, I already knew half the arguments on there, but that's okay...

The Catholic use of statues appears to me to be idol worship when I see people bowing down in front of them in prayer and kissing them. I never said you couldn't have artwork, it's like I said, the bowing down and kissing part that makes it seem like idol worship. I've never seen anyone kneeling down praying to and worshipping the bible like this article says, but I haven't seen every person in the world do whatever they do. I'm sorry I can't look at what the Catholic church does with images as anything other than idol worship.
A important thing to note is the Second Council of Nicea which declared:

To summarize, we declare that we defend free from any innovations all the written and unwritten ecclesiastical traditions that have been entrusted to us. One of these is the production of representational art; this is quite in harmony with the history of the spread of the gospel, as it provides confirmation that the becoming man of the Word of God was real and not just imaginary, and as it brings us a similar benefit. For, things that mutually illustrate one another undoubtedly possess one another's message.

Given this state of affairs and stepping out as though on the royal highway, following as we are the God-spoken teaching of our holy fathers and the tradition of the catholic church--for we recognize that this tradition comes from the holy Spirit who dwells in her-- we decree with full precision and care that, like the figure of the honoured and life-giving cross, the revered and holy images, whether painted or made of mosaic or of other suitable material, are to be exposed in the holy churches of God, on sacred instruments and vestments, on walls and panels, in houses and by public ways; these are the images of our Lord, God and saviour, Jesus Christ, and of our Lady without blemish, the holy God-bearer, and of the revered angels and of any of the saintly holy men. The more frequently they are seen in representational art, the more are those who see them are drawn to remember and long for those who serve as models, and to pay these images the tribute of salutation and respectful veneration. Certainly this is not the full adoration in accordance with our faith, which is properly paid only to the divine nature, but it resembles that given to the figure of the honored and life-giving cross, and also to the holy books of the gospels and to other sacred cult objects. Further, people are drawn to honor these images with the offering of incense and lights, as was piously established by ancient custom. Indeed the honor paid to an image traverses it, reaching the model; and he who venerates the image, venerates the person represented in that image. (pp. 135-7).

The bowing or more specifically kneeling is actually kneeling in prayer and not to the statue itself.

The assumption of Mary is not supported by the scriptures, only by Catholic tradition, and since the Catholic church has no foundation to stand on(see my post about Peter not being the Rock) all of the Catholic traditions are automatically called into question.
The Assumption has been a belief since the earliest times. We find no need for it to be written for a few reasons, the most important of which is that most of the NT (with the possible exception of Revelation) was written before a probable date where she would have died.

As far as the Ever Virgin, there are plenty of scriptures that talk about how Mary had other children and at least one that talks about Joseph not knowing Mary until after Jesus was born, so no, Mary wasn't always a virgin.
I've debated this at length in another thread. Mainly it boils down to a couple of things: 1. All of the people said to be the "brothers of Jesus" are later identified to be the children of another woman (often times another Mary), and what the Greek word for "till" or "until" actually means.

I can't see Praying to the Saints as anything other than trying to communicate with God through someone (a dead person at that) other than Jesus Christ. To me it screams necromancy, contacting spirits of the dead in order to get something from them.
The teaching of the Catholic Church is that our departed brothers and sisters in Christ reign in heaven with God, who is a god of the living (cf. Matthew 22:32), and therefore enjoy an especially close relationship with him. This does not deny that Christians still combating their way through the trials of this world are saints (from the Latin for holy, sanctus), because we are children of God even now.


I don't agree with the article on calling no man father, it lists scriptures that have other people using the term father in a completely different context from what the priests called father are in, so it doesn't work. You can go on about people calling there dad's father, but that isn't going to work either because it's a completely different context. You have to look at it in context and the context in which you see the Catholic Priests being called Father is exactly the context that we are forbidden to use it in.

And I already covered the one about Peter in a different post.
I'll get to both of these tomorrow.
 
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NitzWalsh

Guest
A important thing to note is the Second Council of Nicea which declared:

To summarize, we declare that we defend free from any innovations all the written and unwritten ecclesiastical traditions that have been entrusted to us. One of these is the production of representational art; this is quite in harmony with the history of the spread of the gospel, as it provides confirmation that the becoming man of the Word of God was real and not just imaginary, and as it brings us a similar benefit. For, things that mutually illustrate one another undoubtedly possess one another's message.

Given this state of affairs and stepping out as though on the royal highway, following as we are the God-spoken teaching of our holy fathers and the tradition of the catholic church--for we recognize that this tradition comes from the holy Spirit who dwells in her-- we decree with full precision and care that, like the figure of the honoured and life-giving cross, the revered and holy images, whether painted or made of mosaic or of other suitable material, are to be exposed in the holy churches of God, on sacred instruments and vestments, on walls and panels, in houses and by public ways; these are the images of our Lord, God and saviour, Jesus Christ, and of our Lady without blemish, the holy God-bearer, and of the revered angels and of any of the saintly holy men. The more frequently they are seen in representational art, the more are those who see them are drawn to remember and long for those who serve as models, and to pay these images the tribute of salutation and respectful veneration. Certainly this is not the full adoration in accordance with our faith, which is properly paid only to the divine nature, but it resembles that given to the figure of the honored and life-giving cross, and also to the holy books of the gospels and to other sacred cult objects. Further, people are drawn to honor these images with the offering of incense and lights, as was piously established by ancient custom. Indeed the honor paid to an image traverses it, reaching the model; and he who venerates the image, venerates the person represented in that image. (pp. 135-7).

The bowing or more specifically kneeling is actually kneeling in prayer and not to the statue itself.



The Assumption has been a belief since the earliest times. We find no need for it to be written for a few reasons, the most important of which is that most of the NT (with the possible exception of Revelation) was written before a probable date where she would have died.



I've debated this at length in another thread. Mainly it boils down to a couple of things: 1. All of the people said to be the "brothers of Jesus" are later identified to be the children of another woman (often times another Mary), and what the Greek word for "till" or "until" actually means.



The teaching of the Catholic Church is that our departed brothers and sisters in Christ reign in heaven with God, who is a god of the living (cf. Matthew 22:32), and therefore enjoy an especially close relationship with him. This does not deny that Christians still combating their way through the trials of this world are saints (from the Latin for holy, sanctus), because we are children of God even now.




I'll get to both of these tomorrow.

I'm finding this all very interesting, thanks for the replies.
 
Aug 12, 2010
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The bold faced part is what I want to draw attention to. Your statement is not true unless one accepts the premise of Sola Scriptura. For the EO and the RCC Scripture and Tradition are two parts of the same thing, both equal and both required. Also I would be quick to point out that we only seem to be practicing traditions that contradict scripture when scripture is interpreted in a Protestant manner.

Finally, if what we were practicing was "clearly against the plain teaching of the Bible" I would think that someone would have figured that out sooner than 1500 years after the fact.
Oh really? They woulda figgered it out eh?

Well....people love the pomp and ceremony....they love the lies more than the truth..so they cling to it.

They are trapped in 'experience' worship....instead of worshiping in spirit and in truth.
 
Aug 12, 2010
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They are dead, biologically but they are alive to God, doing the will of the Holy Spirit even after death.
how do you know?

Can you look inside their heart and KNOW they are children of God?

Do you have that godlike ability?

Or is it just that your church sprays air freshener on their corpse and say he's a saint?

Thats good enough for you to risk consulting with familiar spirits....which applies to what you do no matter your lawyers jargan. You pray to them....thats consulting.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
how do you know?

Can you look inside their heart and KNOW they are children of God?

Do you have that godlike ability?

Or is it just that your church sprays air freshener on their corpse and say he's a saint?

Thats good enough for you to risk consulting with familiar spirits....which applies to what you do no matter your lawyers jargan. You pray to them....thats consulting.

Aren't you contacting Doctor Strangelove as a familiar spirit? Why are you so intent as representing yourself as a Peter Sellers fictional movie character? If your name is fictional, why aren't your words about the Bible also fictional? Strange indeed.

 
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NitzWalsh

Guest

Aren't you contacting Doctor Strangelove as a familiar spirit? Why are you so intent as representing yourself as a Peter Sellers fictional movie character? If your name is fictional, why aren't your words about the Bible also fictional? Strange indeed.

It's an internet forum, most people use some kind of nickname that isn't their real name. Just because you can't find fault in his point of view or answer his questions satisfactorily you start knocking his nickname and spelling(in another post). It's really showing you for who you are and not doing much for your case.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It's an internet forum, most people use some kind of nickname that isn't their real name. Just because you can't find fault in his point of view or answer his questions satisfactorily you start knocking his nickname and spelling(in another post). It's really showing you for who you are and not doing much for your case.
It is called desperation. He is lost. and can't respond. so they make ad hominem attacks againsdt other to discredit them.

They are only fooling themselves.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
It is called desperation. He is lost. and can't respond. so they make ad hominem attacks againsdt other to discredit them.

They are only fooling themselves.
Strangelove says, "Eastern Orthodoxy is a temple cult. It is Pharaisaic and Talmud." His only evidence given: none! His statement is based on his own word only. He gives no evidence that is so for his beliefs, yet he demands evidence for my belief. His definition is an ad hominem defintion. He merely labels something he does not like "sect" or "cult". No proof given from the holy Word of God, the Bible. I did not call him names other than Strangelove. And he gave himself that questionable, unreasonable names. It's not a good idea to use other names for oneself unless God gives you a name, you should stay with the name your two blessed parents gave you. Strangelove still hasn't proven the claim that all Protestants must make: the Gospel truth wasn't recovered /reformed until after 1517, until after 1647, until after 1830, or after 1914 or whenever. Whenever your Protestant denomination was founded.
Orthodoxy has been there from the beginning. Anyone who reads church history objectively will know that fact.

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Strangelove says, "Eastern Orthodoxy is a temple cult. It is Pharaisaic and Talmud." His only evidence given: none! His statement is based on his own word only. He gives no evidence that is so for his beliefs, yet he demands evidence for my belief. His definition is an ad hominem defintion. He merely labels something he does not like "sect" or "cult". No proof given from the holy Word of God, the Bible. I did not call him names other than Strangelove. And he gave himself that questionable, unreasonable names. It's not a good idea to use other names for oneself unless God gives you a name, you should stay with the name your two blessed parents gave you. Strangelove still hasn't proven the claim that all Protestants must make: the Gospel truth wasn't recovered /reformed until after 1517, until after 1647, until after 1830, or after 1914 or whenever. Whenever your Protestant denomination was founded.
Orthodoxy has been there from the beginning. Anyone who reads church history objectively will know that fact.
1 Timothy 1:4
nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

Take your geneology of apostolic succession. And telling me my gospel did not even excist until whenever. And do what Paul told timothy to do with it.

Your geneologies mean nothing Scott.

Read church history?? WRITTEN BY MEN.

Thanks. I will read Gods word. Written by God. with no bias!

And thanks for proving my point. You use every excuse, Even add hominem attacks against others. To prove to yourself your church is correct. Your not proving your church is correct to any of us. We see someone making excuses and attacks because he can't use scripture, except to use a few verses taken out of context. WHICH ANYONE CAN DO.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
1 Timothy 1:4
nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

Take your geneology of apostolic succession. And telling me my gospel did not even excist until whenever. And do what Paul told timothy to do with it.

Your geneologies mean nothing Scott.

Read church history?? WRITTEN BY MEN.

Thanks. I will read Gods word. Written by God. with no bias!

And thanks for proving my point. You use every excuse, Even add hominem attacks against others. To prove to yourself your church is correct. Your not proving your church is correct to any of us. We see someone making excuses and attacks because he can't use scripture, except to use a few verses taken out of context. WHICH ANYONE CAN DO.
You just quoted a Scripture out of context. Which anyone can do.
Can you read Scripture without any man guiding you? (Acts 8:30-31). Do you serve as your own pope (Protestant) over the word of God, the Scriptures? Or do you listen to the Church Christ founded (Matth. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15) to show what the Scriptures mean?
What is the true church according to you? The pope of Rome was the first Protestant, and Protestants all follow in the papist pretensions of private interpretation of the prophecy of the Holy Scriptures. Against Scripture!
Read Scripture, written by God: with no bias in your interpretation of Scripture? How do you KNOW you are UNDERSTANDING and rightly INTERPRETING the Scriptures?


 
Aug 12, 2010
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Strangelove says, "Eastern Orthodoxy is a temple cult. It is Pharaisaic and Talmud." His only evidence given: none! His statement is based on his own word only. He gives no evidence that is so for his beliefs, yet he demands evidence for my belief. His definition is an ad hominem defintion. He merely labels something he does not like "sect" or "cult". No proof given from the holy Word of God, the Bible.
Any religious group that relies on man made tradition that nullifies Gods Word is Pharisaical.

Authoritarian hierarchical priestly system
Vain repetitions
Magic/sorcery (kabbalah)
Priestly robes match pharisee garb almost identitically.
Traditions nullify Gods law.
Idolatry
Necromancy/consulting spirits.

This was the last post that you failed to respond to. It's been happening throughout the thread.

Yes that is where we differ.

You trust MEN enough to risk NECROMANCY.

Why not just NOT risk it? It is an abomination to the Lord, and theres a good chance that you practice this abomination.

There is no command to pray to saints. Therefore we dont need to.

By doing so, and trying to ensnare others ito yor sect that practices this, is to bring people into danger.

All from a matter of trust of MEN.


(Deuteronomy 18:10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

(Deuteronomy 18:11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

(Deuteronomy 18:12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
 
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NitzWalsh

Guest
You just quoted a Scripture out of context. Which anyone can do.
Can you read Scripture without any man guiding you? (Acts 8:30-31). Do you serve as your own pope (Protestant) over the word of God, the Scriptures? Or do you listen to the Church Christ founded (Matth. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15) to show what the Scriptures mean?
What is the true church according to you? The pope of Rome was the first Protestant, and Protestants all follow in the papist pretensions of private interpretation of the prophecy of the Holy Scriptures. Against Scripture!
Read Scripture, written by God: with no bias in your interpretation of Scripture? How do you KNOW you are UNDERSTANDING and rightly INTERPRETING the Scriptures?


Are you saying we need to have some bias in order to read the scriptures?

I'm going to repeat this... Jesus did not call Peter the Rock in Matthew 16:18, in Acts chapter 4 Peter himself says that it is Jesus that is the corner stone that the church is built on, and if you know anything about construction, the corner stone is the rock that you build something on... So yes, Peter himself was saying the rock the church is built on is not himself, but it is Jesus. Any claim of apostolic succession through Peter, be it by the Roman Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church or anyone else is fraudulent according to Peter's own words.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
Any religious group that relies on man made tradition that nullifies Gods Word is Pharisaical.

Authoritarian hierarchical priestly system
Vain repetitions
Magic/sorcery (kabbalah)
Priestly robes match pharisee garb almost identitically.
Traditions nullify Gods law.
Idolatry
Necromancy/consulting spirits.

This was the last post that you failed to respond to. It's been happening throughout the thread.

Yes that is where we differ.

You trust MEN enough to risk NECROMANCY.

Why not just NOT risk it? It is an abomination to the Lord, and theres a good chance that you practice this abomination.

There is no command to pray to saints. Therefore we dont need to.

By doing so, and trying to ensnare others ito yor sect that practices this, is to bring people into danger.

All from a matter of trust of MEN.


(Deuteronomy 18:10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

(Deuteronomy 18:11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

(Deuteronomy 18:12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.


Dear strangelove, You are abusing the Scripture and using it to say false, unfounded things about the EOC.
The Orthodox Church does not use divination, observe Jewish feasts, or use enchantment of witchcraft, nor does the Church engage in charms, consulting with familiar spirits, wizardry, or necromancy. You are being held accountable for your false witness. You say things in accusation, but give no proof. It's typical of Western rationalism, which states, "Whatever makes sense to me, and my private reading of the Scripture, guided by the Holy Spirit (of course!), I must be right!" Anything that smacks of Church history before 1517 AD must be a sect or a cult. The truth was only discovered after Martin Luther's time, or Luther made it possible for me to learn the truth. I follow Protestant tradition (of one sort or another)."
Scott R. Harrington
PS All those who misquote Deuteronomy (etc.) out of context for their own private agenda will have to account for their misuse and twisting of the Scriptures!

 
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Scotth1960

Guest
Are you saying we need to have some bias in order to read the scriptures?

I'm going to repeat this... Jesus did not call Peter the Rock in Matthew 16:18, in Acts chapter 4 Peter himself says that it is Jesus that is the corner stone that the church is built on, and if you know anything about construction, the corner stone is the rock that you build something on... So yes, Peter himself was saying the rock the church is built on is not himself, but it is Jesus. Any claim of apostolic succession through Peter, be it by the Roman Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church or anyone else is fraudulent according to Peter's own words.
Excuse me! What Scripture proves apostolic succession is false? Have you ever heard of the Apostolic Fathers? Some of them were written by the disciple of Saint John the Apostle!
Did the apostles found churches? Yes. Is that apostolic succession? Yes. Were their five ancient churches founded by the apostles? Yes. And a few more.
Rome (St. Paul and St. Peter)
Alexandria (St. Mark)
Antioch (St. Paul, St. Peter)
Constantinople (St. Andrew, St. Stachys was his successor)
Jerusalem (St. James)
Apostolic succession in the EOC! And Rome was until 1054 AD part of the WOC (Western Orthodox Church)? Yes it's so!
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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You just quoted a Scripture out of context. Which anyone can do.
Can you read Scripture without any man guiding you? (Acts 8:30-31). Do you serve as your own pope (Protestant) over the word of God, the Scriptures? Or do you listen to the Church Christ founded (Matth. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15) to show what the Scriptures mean?
What is the true church according to you? The pope of Rome was the first Protestant, and Protestants all follow in the papist pretensions of private interpretation of the prophecy of the Holy Scriptures. Against Scripture!
Read Scripture, written by God: with no bias in your interpretation of Scripture? How do you KNOW you are UNDERSTANDING and rightly INTERPRETING the Scriptures?
Acts 8:30-31 is in reference to a man who does not know Jesus Christ yet. And also apparently the NT bible hadn't been written yet. The bible is now complete. All the answers are now in there for everyone to read.

Matthew 16:18 is not referring to Peter as the rock. Let me explain. Peter says to Jesus "you are the Christ". Jesus answers him and says "you are peter" then goes on to explain that the Christ is the Rock on which the Church will be built. Later on in that chapter he tells Peter to "Get behind Me satan". Then He says if anyone will follow after ME let him take up his cross. He doesn't say if anyone will follow Peter take up his cross.

The church that Christ founded never had a pope. Jesus is Lord. Not a pope. Jesus Christ is the head of the church and has always been. Some sleight of hand has been used to transfer that authority to a pope. Come out of her, my people.

God Bless You


 
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Scotth1960

Guest
Acts 8:30-31 is in reference to a man who does not know Jesus Christ yet. And also apparently the NT bible hadn't been written yet. The bible is now complete. All the answers are now in there for everyone to read.

Matthew 16:18 is not referring to Peter as the rock. Let me explain. Peter says to Jesus "you are the Christ". Jesus answers him and says "you are peter" then goes on to explain that the Christ is the Rock on which the Church will be built. Later on in that chapter he tells Peter to "Get behind Me satan". Then He says if anyone will follow after ME let him take up his cross. He doesn't say if anyone will follow Peter take up his cross.

The church that Christ founded never had a pope. Jesus is Lord. Not a pope. Jesus Christ is the head of the church and has always been. Some sleight of hand has been used to transfer that authority to a pope. Come out of her, my people.

God Bless You
Grandpa, Does everyone who reads the Bible, OT and NT, automatically, thoroughly, and completely, understand each and every thing that is written down in the whole Bible? Even with the Holy Spirit to guide (John 16:13), does that automatically mean every Christian will know what God is saying? Did Saint Peter himself, who knew, loved, and confessed blessedly that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah), know and understand everything in the New Testament (NT)? No! If St. Peter didn't understand everything, how are we, as Christians, today, going to understand more than St. Peter understood, since St. Peter was deified by Christ and saw Christ in all of His Divinity on the Mount of Transfiguration? If, after that great spiritual experience with Christ, St. Peter still didn't understand everything in the Bible, how are we, who haven't been blessed enough to have seen Christ manifest His Divinity on the Mount of Transfiguration, going to know and understand every doctrine and meaning of the Greek NT?
We read:
"Wherefore, beloved, looking for these things, earnestly endeavor to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless; and be deeming that the long-suffering of the Lord is salvation, even as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom which was given to him, wrote to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the rest of Scriptures, to their own destruction."
2 St. Peter 3:14-16 ONT (Orthodox New Testament, Volume 2, page 471).
God bless you. Amen. In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington PS

By what sleight of hand does Protestantism transfer its ultimate authority to the private individuals, interpreting the Bible as they see fit privately, according to their own private Bible studies? Every Protestant is his own pope; the pope in separating from the One Church in 1054 AD became the first Protestant Reformer.

 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113

Grandpa, Does everyone who reads the Bible, OT and NT, automatically, thoroughly, and completely, understand each and every thing that is written down in the whole Bible?


Well it's written in every known language on earth, so everyone who reads the bible should get a really good idea of what it's ultimately about.

Even with the Holy Spirit to guide (John 16:13), does that automatically mean every Christian will know what God is saying? Did Saint Peter himself, who knew, loved, and confessed blessedly that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah), know and understand everything in the New Testament (NT)? No! If St. Peter didn't understand everything, how are we, as Christians, today, going to understand more than St. Peter understood, since St. Peter was deified by Christ and saw Christ in all of His Divinity on the Mount of Transfiguration? If, after that great spiritual experience with Christ, St. Peter still didn't understand everything in the Bible, how are we, who haven't been blessed enough to have seen Christ manifest His Divinity on the Mount of Transfiguration, going to know and understand every doctrine and meaning of the Greek NT?

Ultimately you have no idea what Peter understood or what is revealed to believers by the Holy Spirit. I say no one knows everything except Jesus Christ. Only Jesus is infallible.

"Wherefore, beloved, looking for these things, earnestly endeavor to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless; and be deeming that the long-suffering of the Lord is salvation, even as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom which was given to him, wrote to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the rest of Scriptures, to their own destruction."
2 St. Peter 3:14-16 ONT (Orthodox New Testament, Volume 2, page 471).
God bless you. Amen. In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington PS

You probably don't mean this as an apology but I forgive you anyway, just in case.

By what sleight of hand does Protestantism transfer its ultimate authority to the private individuals, interpreting the Bible as they see fit privately, according to their own private Bible studies? Every Protestant is his own pope; the pope in separating from the One Church in 1054 AD became the first Protestant Reformer.

The Protestant, as you call him, does not transfer authority to the private individual. He wrests it from the pope and gives it back to Jesus where it belongs.

Hence a pope cannot be a protestant reformer or he would fire himself as pope and place Jesus in his stead.

 
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Scotth1960

Guest
Well it's written in every known language on earth, so everyone who reads the bible should get a really good idea of what it's ultimately about.



Ultimately you have no idea what Peter understood or what is revealed to believers by the Holy Spirit. I say no one knows everything except Jesus Christ. Only Jesus is infallible.



You probably don't mean this as an apology but I forgive you anyway, just in case.



The Protestant, as you call him, does not transfer authority to the private individual. He wrests it from the pope and gives it back to Jesus where it belongs.

Hence a pope cannot be a protestant reformer or he would fire himself as pope and place Jesus in his stead.
Grandpa, Yes Jesus Christ, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, is the only authority. Where? In His Church (St. Matt. 16:18, 1 St. Tim. 3:15); one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one Body (Church), and one Spirit, one God and Father of all (Eph. 4).
With Protestantism, it is Jesus minus 1 St. Tim. 3:15, with a church based on Romans 3:28 with the non-biblical word "alone" added by Martin Luther, in contradiction of St. James 2:24. All based on Luther's theory of by "scripture alone", according to Luther's word. When asked why he was adding words to the New Testament, Luther amazingly replied, "It is so because I, Martin Luther, say it is so." So the problem of Protestant subjectivist interpretation of the Bible!" Followed in spirit by 38,000 and more Protestant denominations, each claiming themselves as the final authority in what the Bible says and means. Ignoring the Church that wrote the Bible, the Greek Orthodox Church!
God bless you. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington