Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.

[Beckworth]

And where does the word of God. SAY that? You expect us to believe it just because you say it? Where is your proof from God?

Sorry. I misread your post. I see what you are saying.

 

[Beckworth]

When you say, "but no evidence that he "prayed through" to salvation" how do you know that? You even admitted that "Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying." So how do you know it was not praying for salvation?

Also, as you stated, "Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to "Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins." For your information you have at Acts 10:44-48 a situation or a "model" if you will of Cornelius and his household at Acts 10:45, "And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because (or why) they received the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also,." Then at vs47, Surely no one can refuse the water for those to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" This means that one is saved first and then they are to be water baptized. In other words, you do not get water baptized to be saved.

And what about those three days of Saul fasting and praying, what happened? I submit the answer can be found at Galatians 1:11-12. "For I would have you know brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. Vs12, "For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ." In fact if you read the rest of chapter 1 of Galatians Paul explains his and how he came to salvation.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

If Saul of Tarsus was saved during the 3 days he was praying and fasting, then he was “saved” in his sins; because when Ananias came to him at the end of the 3 days, he told Saul to “Arise, and be baptized and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS.” His sins were not forgiven until he was baptized which harmonizes perfectly with what Peter said happens in Acts 2:38-“…be baptized …. FOR THE REMISSION of SINS.” This is proof that Saul was not saved during the 3 days he was fasting and praying.

Also, you are ASSUMING. That Holy Spirit baptism saves people. It did not. Where is your proof that it ever saved anyone. It was a “sign” to the Jews that God granted salvation to the gentiles. And this MIRACULOUS out pouring of the Spirit only happened twice in the New Testament—once in Acts 2 and again in Acts 10. Neither time was it for salvation.

Acts 8 shows people in Samaria being saved-they believed and were baptized THEN, the apostles LAID THEIR HANDS ON THEM and they received the Holy Spirit. These people were saved BEFORE they received the Spirit. They were baptized BEFORE they got the Spirit. You are just ASSUMING the Spirit saved them in Acts 10– you have no proof and Acts 8 DIS-proves that.

 

[Beckworth]

Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

It does not say Ananias told him arise and be baptized and wash away your sins but he would have to be water baptized to wash away his sins.


There are 2 accounts of Saul’s conversion. One in Acts 9 and another in Acts 22. In Acts 22 Paul is telling his conversion story and he says in verse 16 that Ananias said to him “Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins.”

I do believe water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God, and water baptism is for the washing away of sins.

Jesus said a person must be born of the water and Spirit.

Acts 2:38 says baptism is for the remission of sins.

Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans were all water baptized, and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized again.

Romans says we are buried with Christ by baptism into death, for if we are planted together with Christ in the likeness of His death then we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection.

We are not baptized to be part of the Church, or to show we have faith, but we are baptized to identify with the man Christ Jesus in His death.

We have to identify in His death, burial, and resurrection, by repenting of our sins, being water baptized to lay down our sins, and to receive the Holy Spirit.

We cannot cut out the middle man, water baptism, for it is part of the salvation plan of God and we have to identify the man Christ Jesus.

The Bible speaks of the flood and how 8 people were saved by water and the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

It is obvious it is speaking of water baptism for it states it is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh which water will do, and it is identified with the flood which is water.

Which it says baptism does now save us.

Some people say we are not saved by works and water baptism is work.

But the Bible says it is the work of faith, and faith works by love.

Faith is work, repentance is a work, for everything we do, and say, and think is a work.

Also they say we are saved by faith alone, but the Bible says charity, love in action, is greater than faith.

Which means no love then no faith because love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Which many people that say faith alone violate love because they hold on to sin because they think they cannot fall so they enjoy sin, but love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth.

And they go by their wants but Paul said if any person teaches godliness is gain from such withdraw yourselves having food and clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Which some have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

So these people will fall short of fully understanding the Bible which many that say faith alone would fall under that which they also say water baptism is not part of God's salvation plan even though the Bible says water baptism does now save us.

 

[Beckworth]

Wait a minute, I never said that one should not get baptized. I'm saying water baptism is not required to receive salvation. You then said this: "I will explain that to you when you explain to me why Jesus LAST, FINAL instructions to his disciples was:" Wait a minute, I ask you first to explain the verses of what Jesus stated. However, since I'm such a nice guy I will address the Great Commission verses at Matthew 28:29-20.

The first thing of notice are the words, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations." They are "disciples" first and then the disciples are baptized because they are already disciples. Baptism is the initiation of disciples, a public declaration of this dedication to discipleship, this desire to learn and do all Jesus has commanded.

Now, can you please explain what happens if a person by faith puts his trust in Jesus Christ but it is impossible for them to get water baptized? Does God now "deem" them not saved? Let's say a person is on their death bed and receives Jesus Christ but cannot get baptized, what then?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

First, you are trying to use an IMAGIANARY, hypothetical situation to nullify what the scriptures say. How many people do you personally know who on their deathbed wanted to be baptized but couldn’t??
(1) everyone has a Bible and in their lifetime have 1000’s of opportunities to be baptized.
(2) I actually know of at least 4 people who, on their deathbed wanted to be baptized and WERE. One of these was in the hospital and the hospital staff made arrangements to help him be baptized. One was baptized in a bathtub. It CAN be done. And do you think God does not love us enough to allow a person to live long enough to be baptized if he really wanted to. Jesus said that He didn’t want anyone to perish.
(3). But most of all, you need to read the story in John 21. There was a rumor that John would not die. The rest of the apostles asked Jesus about this. His answer was, “ if I will that he remain until I come back, what is that to you?” Jesus is saying, “ what happens to John is none of your business. I will decide about John. That is MY business—not yours. Now the next thing Jesus said is the POINT! He said, YOU FOLLOW ME”. In other words, you need to worry about yourselves and make sure YOU do what you need to do. They knew his teachings. They knew what He wanted. They Knew His commandments. So he is saying you worry about yourselves and let ME decide what happens to John.

That’s what we should do, too. Good advice from the Lord to us—especially those who want to worry about a hypothetical person who dies on his deathbed without baptism. It proves NOTHING! Jesus will deal with that situation “If” it ever happens. You just need to make sure YOU follow Him and do what He says. You certainly cannot use THAT as a reason ( or excuse) not to obey Christ in baptism.

 

[Magenta]

... you need to read the story in John 21. There was a rumor that John would not die. The rest of the apostles asked Jesus about this.

Which translation is that? The one I looked at, it was just Peter who asked. The rumor then spread as a result of Jesus' answer to Peter.

 

[Beckworth]

Which translation is that? The one I looked at, it was just Peter who asked. The rumor then spread as a result of Jesus' answer to Peter.

I said there was a rumor. ??? I didn’t say how it started. I don’t see a problem. Regardless of how the rumor started or who said, what first, I wonder if you understood the point Jesus was making in relation to the rumor?

 

[Beckworth]

I said there was a rumor. ??? I didn’t say how it started. I don’t see a problem. Regardless of how the rumor started or who said, what first, I wonder if you understood the point Jesus was making in relation to the rumor?

I reread the story and, yes, Peter is the one asking him and the rumor started after that. But how Jesus DEALT WITH THAT SITUATION and WHAT HE SAID was the point I was trying to make.