Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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God must put people who reject Him in Hell.

Why?

Because, if He caused them to live on in eternity as the rest of us, as they wish themselves to be?
They would desire to make it Hell for everyone they saw loving the Lord!

Just like some who come here with evil teachings as a means to try to hurt those with tender hearts towards the Lord!

The point of it is that people make the choice to reject God, that is why they end up in hell.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
1,532
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The point of it is that people make the choice to reject God, that is why they end up in hell.
Calvinists fail to see how God makes it possible for fallen people to be made free to make their own choice.
Our flesh is opposed and antagonistic to the Spirit.
And, our souls were born into slavery to our flesh!

Grace silences the flesh!
The power of grace shuts down the influence of the flesh over our soul,
so that our soul in the body is freed from the depravity of the flesh.

And, while in that state of enabling grace?
The soul is made free to choose!

Irresistible grace was an attempt to explain what they were impatiently trying to find an immediate answer for.


It actually becomes simple and logical to understand once one can drop his arrogance of denominational conditioning.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
1,532
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I only disagree when you try to give credit to men rather than giving God all the glory!

Credit for what?

If someone walked up to you and gave you a million dollars?
Are you going to boast about your greatness for accepting it?

.......
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
1,519
155
63
Note!



They are spoken of in the Bible.
They will be amongst us...

These people do know Scripture!
They can quote it.
They just can not know what it means.
But willfully force themselves to believe that they do.
And, impose their self belief upon others.

Delusional theology is their forte...


Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul
also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all
his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are
hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other
Scriptures, to their own destruction."

2 Peter 3:15-16


grace and patience ................
Projection will get you nowhere. You lost all credibility as soon as you denied that Satan sought God's permission to afflict evil on Job and God granted it to him.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
1,519
155
63
Calvinists fail to see how God makes it possible for fallen people to be made free to make their own choice.
Our flesh is opposed and antagonistic to the Spirit.
And, our souls were born into slavery to our flesh!

Grace silences the flesh!
The power of grace shuts down the influence of the flesh over our soul,
so that our soul in the body is freed from the depravity of the flesh.

And, while in that state of enabling grace?
The soul is made free to choose!

Irresistible grace was an attempt to explain what they were impatiently trying to find an immediate answer for.


It actually becomes simple and logical to understand once one can drop his arrogance of denominational conditioning.
And the enemies of the Cross of Christ who preach a false gospel "fail to see" (to borrow your phrase) that neither God or his Son are ever represented in scripture as POSSIBLE or POTENTIAL saviors. Here's a novel idea for you: This might be due to the fact that nothing is impossible with God! How's that grab you? :rolleyes:
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
1,519
155
63
Since no one tackled the three dilemmas that I presented a few days ago in my 9699, I answer my own questions in the next post.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
1,519
155
63
By way of quick review, let's see how we determined in my 9669 that fools, who are never spoken well of in scripture, are in a three-fold moral-spiritual dilemma. We learned about the unwise:

Fools are wicked (2Sam 13:13; Ps 92:5-7; 94: 3, 8)

Fools despise Wisdom (Prov 1:7) and hate Knowldedge and love their simple ways (Prov 1:22, 29).

Fools have no desire for Wisdom (Prov 17:16)

Fools have no Understanding (Ps 92:6)

Fools take no pleasure in Understanding (Prov 18:2, cp. Jer 6:10)

Fools have no desire to choose the Fear of the Lord, thus it's impossible for them to hate and shun evil (Prov 3:7; 8:13).

We also learned that the Fear of the Lord is a godly disposition of the heart (mind, passions, conscience and volition), whereby the whole man is engaged in this activity (Deut 5:29; Jer 32:39-40), thus finding great delight in God's commandments (Ps 112:1).

Further, we saw that The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom (Prov 9:10) and also the beginning of Knowledge (Prov 1:7).

And that Knowledge of the Holy One is the locus of spiritual Understanding (Prov 9:10).

But fools do not choose to Fear the Lord (Prov 1:29), thus it's impossible for them to hate and shun evil (Prov 3:7; 8:13).

And this led us to ask:

Therefore, how can fools seek Wisdom, Knowledge and Understading that they so hate even though all men are commanded to diligently and earnestly seek after it (Prov 4:5-9)?

And how can fools choose to Fear the Lord when they have no desire to (Prov 1:29; Rom 3:18) and yet the Fear of the Lord is the precursor to and the key to seeking the very Knowledge and Wisdom they hate ((Prov 1:7; 9:10; Isa 33:6), while simultaneously loving the Darnkess and Death (Prov 8:36; Jn 3:19) which also makes it impossible for them to hate and shun evil?

And how can fools have any true spiritual Understanding when they hate Knowledge of the Holy One, which is the warp 'n' woof of Understanding, in which fools also find no pleasure (Prov 18:2; Rom 3:11)?

Or...to condense the 3 into 1 question: How are Fools saved; or does God save only the Wise in which He has sovereignly chosen to instill Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding as He did with Solomon?

The short answer to these three dilemmas is: The Unconditonal, Unilateral Promises of Election and Effectual Grace in the New Covenant!.

Now, I'll lay out the biblical evidence, bearing in mind all the time the Three Dilemmas above and that the Fear of the Lord is the prerequisite to obtaining Wisdom and Knowledge.

God gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning (Dan 2:21).
Daniel in his last vision pertaining to Jerusalem was told the wicked will not undersand but those who are wise will (Dan 12:9-10).
The knowledge of the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven is given to only Christ's chosen disciples (Mat 13:11-15).
Christ promised his disciples that during the tribulation words of wisdom would be given to them (Lk 21: 14-15).
He gave understanding of the scriptures to his disciples after his resurrection (Lk 24:27, 45).
The message of wisdom was given to Christ's disciples (1Cor 2:6-14).
God made his light shine in the hearts of his people to give them the knowledge of His glory in the face of Christ (2Cor 4:6).
The elect are commanded to understand what the will of the Lord is (Eph 5:17).
The Son of God came to give his elect understanding so we may know him who is true (1Jn 5:20).
Paul and others prayed unceasingly for the Colossian Church for God to fill them with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding (Col 1:9).

Having said that, specifically how does the NC Church come by the Fear of the Lord that is necessary to gaining Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding that inheres in Special Revelation? Answer: By Effectual Grace. Consider these New Covenant Promises of God:

1. He promised to make a New Covenant with his covenant people that would be unlike the Old, and He would put his laws in the minds of his covenant people and also write those on their hearts so that all his people would know Him, i.e. have Knowledge of the Holy one which is Understanding (Prov 9:10), making it unnecessary for people to teach their neighbor or brother, saying "'know the Lord', for they will all know the Lord." (Jer 31:31-34).

2. God promised his covenant people that He would cleanse them from their sins, give them a new heart, put a new spirit in them, replace their old heart of stone with a new heart of flesh, put his own Spirit within them and cause them to follow his decrees and keep his laws (Ezek 36:24-27, also cp. Prov 3:7; 8:13; Ps 112:1).

3. Then God further reinforced his promise to his covenant people that He would indeed be their God and that they would be His people, that he would give them one heart and one way (cp. Jn 14:6), so that they may Fear Him always for their good, that He would make an everlasting covenant with them, that He would not turn away from them to do them good, that He would put the Fear of Himself in THEIR hearts, so that they would not turn away from him (Jer 32: 36-41), thereby effectively assuring them that they would fulfill their whole duty toward Him (Eccl 12:13).

4. Therefore, it follows from all this that God's chosen covenant people will walk in God's ways, follow his statues and obey his laws as result of having the Spirit of Christ within them, who Himself has the Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding, the Spirit of Counsel and Power and the Spirit of Knowledge and Fear of the Lord that will effectually empower them to Fear the Lord and obey his commandments (Isa 11:1-3, cp Eccl 12:13). And don't miss the intimation to the Trinity in this passage.

This, Unconditional, Unilateral New Covenant with all its promises then, is the biblical remedy for the tripartite dilemma stated earlier.
And we learn from the conditions of this covenant that God made the promises, contained therein, only to his chosen covenant people, and that the power that God exerts within his covenant people must be effectual since he's omnipotent and that, unlike the Old Covenant, there are no conditions that his chosen covenant people are required to agree to or fulfill, since their Federal Head perfectly fulfilled them all on their behalf, and is fulfilling them in them through the process of sanctification, and He will culminate his fulfillment for his people at the General Resurrection on the Last Day when they will receive their new glorified, spiritual bodies.

One final thing: How we answer this next question determines if our faith is biblical or not. Ponder this rhetorical question carefully:

Ps 94:8
8 Take heed, you senseless ones among the people;
you fools, when will you become wise?
NIV

If you cant' honestly answer this question and the evidence we have looked at still doesn't convince you, then I can suggest only one other passage. And if Job 11:12, in all its interesting variations, doesn't do the trick, then there might be no remedy for you.