Total Depravity
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No. I cannot predict ANY future event with 100% certainty.
You can predict that tomorrow you will get up and see the sunrise. And the LIKLIHOOD of that happening is very high. But it is absolutely NOT certain. NOTHING, outside of the scope of Scripture IS certain.
You are not guaranteed your next breath, much less seeing the next sunrise.
Jeremiah and Ezekiel prophesied King Zedekiah would see Nebuchadnezzar face to face, die in Babylon, yet not see Babylon.
But of course the LORD saw and ordained it. Zedekiah watched his 2 sons put to death and then had his eyes put out!
And died yrs later in Babylon. EXACTLY as foretold by the Lord.
But you are NOT the Lord. You CANNOT PREDICT ANYTHING to 100% certainty.
This is dangerous ground you tread.
You can predict that tomorrow you will get up and see the sunrise. And the LIKLIHOOD of that happening is very high. But it is absolutely NOT certain. NOTHING, outside of the scope of Scripture IS certain.
You are not guaranteed your next breath, much less seeing the next sunrise.
Jeremiah and Ezekiel prophesied King Zedekiah would see Nebuchadnezzar face to face, die in Babylon, yet not see Babylon.
But of course the LORD saw and ordained it. Zedekiah watched his 2 sons put to death and then had his eyes put out!
And died yrs later in Babylon. EXACTLY as foretold by the Lord.
But you are NOT the Lord. You CANNOT PREDICT ANYTHING to 100% certainty.
This is dangerous ground you tread.
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I can predict the sun rise time tomorrow where I live. You have a very specialised meaning for "knowing" that is a theoretical theological construct and you only apply when it is necessary to prop up your theology. If your mother were booked on a plane to arrive at a certain time next week, you would adjust your timetable to accommodate her coming. Why? Because you know she is coming on that date. If someone asks you,
"When will you see your mother next?" you would say, "
She's coming to visit next week." And if asked
"How do you know that?" you would say, "
She told me so," You would not say,
"I don't know she is coming, I only believe she intends to come."
We do not use language with the theological precision you want to impose on the Bible when the Bible reports people and God knowing stuff in it. Knowing something will happen simply means believing with a high degree of certainty that it will happen. We always have a silent caveat in mind: "... provided nothing unforeseen happens to prevent it."
The Bible was written by men and through men, but using their language, with the meaning they applied to words in real life.
"When will you see your mother next?" you would say, "
She's coming to visit next week." And if asked
"How do you know that?" you would say, "
She told me so," You would not say,
"I don't know she is coming, I only believe she intends to come."
We do not use language with the theological precision you want to impose on the Bible when the Bible reports people and God knowing stuff in it. Knowing something will happen simply means believing with a high degree of certainty that it will happen. We always have a silent caveat in mind: "... provided nothing unforeseen happens to prevent it."
The Bible was written by men and through men, but using their language, with the meaning they applied to words in real life.
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God speaks to Abraham about the future as though it is already the past:
Romans 4:16-17
Therefore [it is] of faith that [it might be] according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all (as it is written, [ "I have made you a father of many nations"]) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
Could you answer how open theism deals with verses like this:
And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
How does God know they are going to do that, if the future is open?
That is my one and only gripe with open theism, other than that, in my opinion it looks biblical. God is operating in time and is relational and a lot of the philosophical man-made omnis and imns just arent in the Bible
And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
How does God know they are going to do that, if the future is open?
That is my one and only gripe with open theism, other than that, in my opinion it looks biblical. God is operating in time and is relational and a lot of the philosophical man-made omnis and imns just arent in the Bible
Adam didn't get to choose to be put in the garden:
Genesis 2:8
The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed.
and Saul did not choose Jesus, but Jesus chose him:
Acts 9:3-8
As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?" And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It [is] hard for you to kick against the goads." So he, trembling and astonished, said, "Lord, what do You want me to do?" Then the Lord [said] to him, "Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought [him] into Damascus.
Acts 9:13-16
Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name." But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
you might say Love doesn't always force, but sometimes He certainly does.1And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.
2And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.
3The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said.
4And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed.
5And the LORD shall give them up before your face, that ye may do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have commanded you.
6Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
7And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it.
8And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.
9And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.
10And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,
11When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.
12Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
13And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.
14And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.
15And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.
16And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?
18And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
19Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
21And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
23And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.
24And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
26Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
27For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?
28Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.
29For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
30And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.
God Himself does not attribute this knowledge to some supposed unerring knowledge of the future exactly as it will be. God says He is basing this projection on His observations of their past and present behaviour and imaginations. v. 21 And Moses bases His knowledge of the same on his observations of their behaviour. v. 27
Both God and Moses are using "to know" in the same way we do. They are expressing their high degree of certainty that X is so, based on the past and present evidence to which they are so far privy.
21And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
27For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?
2And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.
3The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said.
4And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed.
5And the LORD shall give them up before your face, that ye may do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have commanded you.
6Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
7And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it.
8And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.
9And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.
10And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,
11When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.
12Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
13And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.
14And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.
15And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.
16And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?
18And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
19Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
21And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
23And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.
24And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
26Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
27For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?
28Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.
29For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
30And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.
God Himself does not attribute this knowledge to some supposed unerring knowledge of the future exactly as it will be. God says He is basing this projection on His observations of their past and present behaviour and imaginations. v. 21 And Moses bases His knowledge of the same on his observations of their behaviour. v. 27
Both God and Moses are using "to know" in the same way we do. They are expressing their high degree of certainty that X is so, based on the past and present evidence to which they are so far privy.
21And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
27For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?
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I said we can choose. This does not mean God can't work on us and in us.
We can accept or refuse the love of God.
We should pray 🙏 continually for God to work on our friends and ourself.
We are nothing without God but with God we can do great things.
The path we choose is a result of many influences and if we make God our first choice in all things, we will find ourself on the right path.
God doesn't force people to be in heaven.
God does everything to save us but He can't control our will.
We can accept or refuse the love of God.
We should pray 🙏 continually for God to work on our friends and ourself.
We are nothing without God but with God we can do great things.
The path we choose is a result of many influences and if we make God our first choice in all things, we will find ourself on the right path.
God doesn't force people to be in heaven.
God does everything to save us but He can't control our will.
NaBa
NaBa' : of religious ecstasy with or without song and music; later, essentially relifious instruction, with occasional prediction. (Brown-Driver- Briggs lexicon)
To cause to bubble up, hence to pour forth words abundantly, as done by those who speak with ardour or divine emotion of mind... (Genesius)
prophEteuO: from pro- (in composition, as a prefix, motion forward) and -phEmi (to make known one's thoughts, to declare); therefore to declare forth. (Thayer)
NaBa' : of religious ecstasy with or without song and music; later, essentially relifious instruction, with occasional prediction. (Brown-Driver- Briggs lexicon)
To cause to bubble up, hence to pour forth words abundantly, as done by those who speak with ardour or divine emotion of mind... (Genesius)
prophEteuO: from pro- (in composition, as a prefix, motion forward) and -phEmi (to make known one's thoughts, to declare); therefore to declare forth. (Thayer)
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Think about a giant court room with the devil and his angels on one side putting there case to the universe and Jesus putting His case to the universe..
The trial is for each person.
God the father said that nothing unclean will enter Heaven, He said sin shall not rise a seacond time. Sin = death.
Satan states that If God is to remain just and true He must not allow a sinner to be saved. No one can be given eternal life.
Sin = death. Justice requires it.
Satan says ... If God follows the rules everyone would die. And If God changes the rules He is unjust and unfair.
God said my plan was set to save the human race from sin. And I give the life of my son, the creator to pay for each person.
Is it more then enough. This is justice and mercy combined perfectly. Every sin is paid for in full. Justice requires it. Mercy let's us have a choice about our future.
Some choose to reject the saviours gift
Others choose to accept it by faith.
If God can force His created beings to follow Him why did Satan rebel. Why did Adam rebel. Jesus died because of our bad choices. If God could have stopped these bad choices and saved Jesus from the torture of the cross why didn't He?
The trial is for each person.
God the father said that nothing unclean will enter Heaven, He said sin shall not rise a seacond time. Sin = death.
Satan states that If God is to remain just and true He must not allow a sinner to be saved. No one can be given eternal life.
Sin = death. Justice requires it.
Satan says ... If God follows the rules everyone would die. And If God changes the rules He is unjust and unfair.
God said my plan was set to save the human race from sin. And I give the life of my son, the creator to pay for each person.
Is it more then enough. This is justice and mercy combined perfectly. Every sin is paid for in full. Justice requires it. Mercy let's us have a choice about our future.
Some choose to reject the saviours gift
Others choose to accept it by faith.
If God can force His created beings to follow Him why did Satan rebel. Why did Adam rebel. Jesus died because of our bad choices. If God could have stopped these bad choices and saved Jesus from the torture of the cross why didn't He?
If God gives a gift you and you don't want to open it or accept it. Would it be fair of God to force you to accept it.
If God tells people that "if you love me with all your heart you will be saved" and people don't have a choice, why does He even ask us to love Him?
Many of you are saying God forces His follower to follow Him. God forces those that love Him to love Him.
That is not love.
If God tells people that "if you love me with all your heart you will be saved" and people don't have a choice, why does He even ask us to love Him?
Many of you are saying God forces His follower to follow Him. God forces those that love Him to love Him.
That is not love.
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