Dietary laws, do you keep them?
- Thread starter Hakawaka
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
In Ephesians 4 we read clearly that Paul admonishes the worshipers in Ephesus to not get drunk on wine....
Paul was not licensing the worshipers to get drunk on beer or strong drink. (something akin to liquor but not quite because distilling wasn't a thing yet)
We can infer this today to include liquor or even intravenous drug use.
Fairly easy enough to extrapolate the intent Paul had to include these things today that Paul couldn't fathom then.
Paul does NOT come to the conclusion about righteous works of the Torah/Law all by himself.....oh no!
Look at Mark 7: 1-23 (where Jesus declares all foods clean v. 19) @SavedByBlood
Paul goes into great detail what and why in Colossians 2: 4 -3:4
Food and drink are earthly things...not heavenly. Law was just a shadow or foreshadowing of the Christ which is our reality.
Paul was not licensing the worshipers to get drunk on beer or strong drink. (something akin to liquor but not quite because distilling wasn't a thing yet)
We can infer this today to include liquor or even intravenous drug use.
Fairly easy enough to extrapolate the intent Paul had to include these things today that Paul couldn't fathom then.
Paul does NOT come to the conclusion about righteous works of the Torah/Law all by himself.....oh no!
Look at Mark 7: 1-23 (where Jesus declares all foods clean v. 19) @SavedByBlood
Paul goes into great detail what and why in Colossians 2: 4 -3:4
Food and drink are earthly things...not heavenly. Law was just a shadow or foreshadowing of the Christ which is our reality.
-
1
- Show all
In Torah there is very specific laws concerning milk and meat together.
Meaning no cheeseburgers whatsoever....
Also no ham and cheese sandwiches either....obviously.
But what really gets confusing is no cream for your coffee while meat is still on the table....or butter for your bread or vegetables (even mashed or baked potatoes) no gratin potatoes either because this is a violation of the law.
Meaning no chili-cheese dogs or fries.
No bacon ranch dressing either.
No garlic butter breadsticks....all sorts of foods we do not recognize as sinful today. Maybe considered rich and not something to eat every day....but not to the level of sin.
So....not even kosher sausage and pancakes is allowed. (Crime against good eating in my book)
Meaning no cheeseburgers whatsoever....
Also no ham and cheese sandwiches either....obviously.
But what really gets confusing is no cream for your coffee while meat is still on the table....or butter for your bread or vegetables (even mashed or baked potatoes) no gratin potatoes either because this is a violation of the law.
Meaning no chili-cheese dogs or fries.
No bacon ranch dressing either.
No garlic butter breadsticks....all sorts of foods we do not recognize as sinful today. Maybe considered rich and not something to eat every day....but not to the level of sin.
So....not even kosher sausage and pancakes is allowed. (Crime against good eating in my book)
-
1
- Show all
Are God's councils given for our good?
God gave health principles because they are for our good. They are health principles.
If we obey them we are healthier and if we disobey them we are hurting our bodies.
Physical or spiritual we need to take care of this body. Use it to glorify God.
I know we will be given a new body but what we do now is a reflection of the heart.
When I surrender myself to God that includes my physical self.
Drugs, Alcohol, and foods that are bad for us are clearly outlined in the word.
God gave health principles because they are for our good. They are health principles.
If we obey them we are healthier and if we disobey them we are hurting our bodies.
Physical or spiritual we need to take care of this body. Use it to glorify God.
I know we will be given a new body but what we do now is a reflection of the heart.
When I surrender myself to God that includes my physical self.
Drugs, Alcohol, and foods that are bad for us are clearly outlined in the word.
-
1
- Show all
What foods and drinks are bad for us is subject to genetics...not an arbitrary list by you or anyone.
Recreational drugs are bad for everyone. A lifetime of using emotional crutches makes someone unable to handle any serious life situation if they survive the physical deterioration from steady abuse.
Coffee for some people is horrible for them.
Milk for some people is bad.
Celiac disease is hard on people too.
But....for me, all these things are necessities for daily life. Even pork fat....
So one size does not fit all.
Recreational drugs are bad for everyone. A lifetime of using emotional crutches makes someone unable to handle any serious life situation if they survive the physical deterioration from steady abuse.
Coffee for some people is horrible for them.
Milk for some people is bad.
Celiac disease is hard on people too.
But....for me, all these things are necessities for daily life. Even pork fat....
So one size does not fit all.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
The word is "counsels" (directions or advice); a council is a group of people gathered for a specific purpose, such as administering a community ("the town council"). The only "councils given for our good" are the nuclear family and the elders of the local church.
Nowhere in Scripture are the regulations concerning food presented as "health principles". You're free to believe that, but you have no biblical support for the idea.
That is unvarnished speculation with neither biblical nor scientific warrant. The relevant passages in the Law give no indication as to recommended ratios of macronutrients, nor which foods contain needed micronutrients, and it certainly doesn't do anything for people with food allergies. They don't suggest when it is optimal to ingest, nor provide direction on how much is needed at each meal.
Alcohol is mentioned, and not always negatively. Drugs? I'm not aware of any references in Scripture. The Law identifies some things that the ancient Israelites weren't permitted to consume, but I don't know of any verses where certain foods that are identified as "bad for us".
Nowhere in Scripture are the regulations concerning food presented as "health principles". You're free to believe that, but you have no biblical support for the idea.
That is unvarnished speculation with neither biblical nor scientific warrant. The relevant passages in the Law give no indication as to recommended ratios of macronutrients, nor which foods contain needed micronutrients, and it certainly doesn't do anything for people with food allergies. They don't suggest when it is optimal to ingest, nor provide direction on how much is needed at each meal.
Alcohol is mentioned, and not always negatively. Drugs? I'm not aware of any references in Scripture. The Law identifies some things that the ancient Israelites weren't permitted to consume, but I don't know of any verses where certain foods that are identified as "bad for us".
-
1
- Show all
The problem with speaking about the ceremonial law is that the authors of the Bible never listed which laws are part of the ceremonial law and never even referred to that as being a category of law. If a group of people were to create lists of which laws they thought were part of the ceremonial law, then they would end up with a wide variety of lists and none of those people should interpret the authors of the Bible as referring to a list that they just created, especially when there is no way to establish that the author of the Bible even considered that to be a category of law. Moreover, just because a law arguably has a ceremonial aspect does not mean that it is not also a moral issue, for example, marriage is a ceremonial, moral, and civil issue. The only reason why it matters whether or not a law is ceremonial is that some people have arbitrarily decided that they can be acting morally while disobeying the laws that they personally consider to be ceremonial.
In Deuteronomy 17:8-13, it gives authority to priests and judges to make ruling about how to correctly obey the Torah, which God passed down as case law. In Matthew 23:2-4, Jesus recognized that the scribes and Pharisees had this authority by saying that they sit in the seat of Moses and by instructing his followers to do and observe all that they said, but do not follow their example of hypocrisy of doing things for show.
In Deuteronomy 17:8-13, it gives authority to priests and judges to make ruling about how to correctly obey the Torah, which God passed down as case law. In Matthew 23:2-4, Jesus recognized that the scribes and Pharisees had this authority by saying that they sit in the seat of Moses and by instructing his followers to do and observe all that they said, but do not follow their example of hypocrisy of doing things for show.
-
2
- Show all
I understand about the authority of the Scribes and Pharisees sitting in the seat of authority as said by Jesus. He was disgusted by them putting the weightier matters of the law aside like, Matt:23:23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
In our time we have no Scribes, Pharisees or Temple. Messiah is our chief priest and our body is the temple.
In our time we have no Scribes, Pharisees or Temple. Messiah is our chief priest and our body is the temple.
Yes...
Locust "boiled" in ghee (clarified butter) and seasoned are rather good. They can't be put in a foil bag and sold in the snack food section....they are fragile and a little chewy in spots.
Not the sort of thing that is very common. But good enough to try if you are offered an opportunity. (Just don't look at them)
Locust "boiled" in ghee (clarified butter) and seasoned are rather good. They can't be put in a foil bag and sold in the snack food section....they are fragile and a little chewy in spots.
Not the sort of thing that is very common. But good enough to try if you are offered an opportunity. (Just don't look at them)
-
2
- Show all
2nd Timothy:
16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Pay close attention to the profitable, reproof, correction and instruction. Also the man of God may be completed equipped for every good work.
16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Pay close attention to the profitable, reproof, correction and instruction. Also the man of God may be completed equipped for every good work.
And Paul, when writing this letter to his apprentice Timothy, was referring to the Old Testament....since the New Testament was in process of being written. The only New Testament book written at this point was the Book of James.
However....ALL of the writings and instructions by Paul were about how the legalisms from the Old Testament were not needed to be followed as they were only used to point to the purity and holiness of Jesus.
However....ALL of the writings and instructions by Paul were about how the legalisms from the Old Testament were not needed to be followed as they were only used to point to the purity and holiness of Jesus.
In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weather matters of the law, so he was not opposing what they were doing, but was calling them to have a higher level of obedience to God's law in a manner that is in accordance with its weightier matters. Orthodox Jew have an unbroken chain from one rabbi to another back to the Pharisees of the 1st century, so they are the modern Pharisees.
-
1
- Show all