4 views of Mark 16:16

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Beckworth

Active member
#1
May 15, 2019
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#1
Jesus said in Mark 16:16–“He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. But he that does not believe shall be condemned.”
The reason “baptism” is not mentioned in the second half of that scripture is because no unbeliever would ever be baptized. So it was not necessary for Jesus to say “ He that does not believe and is not baptized shall be condemned.” Jesus gave us credit for having enough common sense to understand this.
There are four views of this verse:
(1). He that believes and is NOT baptized shall be saved. This is the popular teaching of most denominations.
(2) He that does NOT believe and is baptized shall be saved. This is the belief of those who believe in sprinkling babies.
(3) He that does NOT believe and is NOT baptized shall be saved. This is the view of the Universalists who believe everyone will be saved no matter what.
(4) He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. This is the BIBLE view—Because it is what Jesus said. John 17:17 says your word is TRUTH. So now we know the TRUTH about Mark 16:16.
MARK 16:16 is like saying 1 + 1 = 2. Belief + baptism = salvation.
Belief without baptism is saying 1 = 2 or 1 —1 = 2 That is the wrong answer and is not what Jesus taught.
Believe the TRUTH and put your trust in the scriptures.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#3
May 15, 2019
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#3
ResidentAlien said:
Just get baptized, simple, end of story.
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Ah, yes, but then you have a new set of questions. What “mode” of baptism is acceptable? Sprinkling, pouring, or immersion? And what is the PURPOSE of baptism? Just to join a church? Just an “outward sign of an inward grace”, or “for the remission of sins?” (Acts 2:38) Could you be baptized wrong and need to be re-baptized? ( Acts 19:1-5)

The subject of “baptism” is important. We need to get our answers from the Bible.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#4
Apr 21, 2021
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#4
Beckworth said:
Ah, yes, but then you have a new set of questions. What “mode” of baptism is acceptable? Sprinkling, pouring, or immersion? And what is the PURPOSE of baptism? Just to join a church? Just an “outward sign of an inward grace”, or “for the remission of sins?” (Acts 2:38) Could you be baptized wrong and need to be re-baptized? ( Acts 19:1-5)

The subject of “baptism” is important. We need to get our answers from the Bible.
Click to expand...
Just get baptized. You worry too much.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5
Dec 18, 2021
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#5
2 things,

1. Unbelievers get baptized all the time.
2. Is it water baptism Jesus spoke about. or spirit baptism
3. Jesus in no other place said he who believes and is baptized will not be condemned, It is odd that Jesus left baptism out in all the other passages.
4. Get bit by snakes and drink poison, Many believers in God have died of snake bites and drinking poisonous substances, So because of point 3 and 4, many people have found that these were not in the origional autographs, but added at a later date
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#7
Dec 18, 2021
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#7
Beckworth said:
Ah, yes, but then you have a new set of questions. What “mode” of baptism is acceptable? Sprinkling, pouring, or immersion? And what is the PURPOSE of baptism? Just to join a church? Just an “outward sign of an inward grace”, or “for the remission of sins?” (Acts 2:38) Could you be baptized wrong and need to be re-baptized? ( Acts 19:1-5)

The subject of “baptism” is important. We need to get our answers from the Bible.
Click to expand...
It is just as important as the lords supper. Serving the poor, assembling together. and every other command God gave us.

the problem is, people put this command above other commands and act as if God will save you fore this work, and not the rest.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#8
May 15, 2019
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#8
ResidentAlien said:
Just get baptized. You worry too much.
Click to expand...
—Did you know that in the book of Deuteronomy God tells His people 17 times (and counting) BE CAREFUL “to do as the Lord has commanded you.” Don’t turn to the right or the left. Be careful to observe his commandments. Etc, over and over. I haven’t finished going through the whole book.
— Did you know that God killed two of Aaron’s sons for using a different fire (than the one he told them to use) to light the incense? Leviticus 10.
—- Did you know that God removed Saul’s family from the kingship because he only did PART of what God told him to do?
—Did you know God killed Uzzah for just trying to save the ark from falling, because God said “Don’t touch it”?
Yes. You are right. I believe in being very “careful” how I treat God and His. word. What’s that old saying—-better “safe” than sorry?? When I get to judgment I won’t be able to do it over.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#9
May 15, 2019
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#9
Everlasting-Grace said:
It is just as important as the lords supper. Serving the poor, assembling together. and every other command God gave us.

the problem is, people put this command above other commands and act as if God will save you fore this work, and not the rest.
Click to expand...
The reason baptism is discussed so much is because there is so much controversy surrounding it. There is division over it. There are so many different views about it and so many different beliefs. No one differs on whether or not we should “serve the poor.” We are mostly all in agreement over that. Or love our neighbor or eat the Lord’s supper. There is no need to discuss such things for we pretty much all agree. It’s mostly our “differences” that we debate.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#10
May 15, 2019
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#10
Everlasting-Grace said:
Yes

But because you are saved, not in order to try to appease God and get saved
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I can’t find a single verse in the Bible that says to “get baptized because you are saved”
But I CAN find where it says baptism is “FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. (Actsc2:38) and where baptism WASHES AWAY SINS. (Acts 22:16) and where it puts baptism BEFORE salvation (Mark 16:16) and I can find where the Bible says BAPTISM SAVES US. (1 Peter 3:21) BUT I have never seen a scripture that says we are baptized because we are already saved.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#11
May 15, 2019
461
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#11
Everlasting-Grace said:
2 things,

1. Unbelievers get baptized all the time.
2. Is it water baptism Jesus spoke about. or spirit baptism
3. Jesus in no other place said he who believes and is baptized will not be condemned, It is odd that Jesus left baptism out in all the other passages.
4. Get bit by snakes and drink poison, Many believers in God have died of snake bites and drinking poisonous substances, So because of point 3 and 4, many people have found that these were not in the origional autographs, but added at a later date
Click to expand...

Point #3: That does not prove anything. Peter did not say “Repent and be baptized in any other place but that does not prove it’s not true. There is only one scripture that says confession is unto salvation Romans 10:10. It’s not said anywhere else in the Bible but that does not prove it’s not true. God only needs to say it once for it to be true.
The reason God did not say “He that does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned” is because He did not need to say that. It’s obvious that no UNBELIEVER would ever be baptized! I guess God credited us with enough sense to figure that out.

I don’t know what other passages you are talking about where Jesus left baptism out. You will have to give me those in order for me to know how to answer.

Point #4: obviously not every believer could speak in tongues, lay hands on people and heal them, not every believer could cast out demons, handle serpents or drink poison. This was a time when spiritual gifts were in existence. Paul said those “gifts” would cease when the perfect will of God was completed. Jesus in this setting is speaking to the eleven apostles and we know they could do these things but it was never a general prediction for every saved person in the kingdom. Since these special powers have ceased, of course if you try to handle serpents or drink poison today, you will very likely die. That does not disprove what Jesus said to His disciples..

I guess claiming that scriptures that you can’t refute were added at a later time may be considered one way to “get around them,” but the problem is, that these scriptures that you want to claim were added later do not contradict anything else in the Bible. They are consistent with the rest of the New Testament; so I don’t see how that is going to help your case. For example, in Acts 8:12 you have Mark 16:16 repeated. Men and women believed and were baptized. Simon “believed and was baptized. The Ethiopian eunuch believed and STOPPED THE CHARIOT to be baptized. Saul of Tarsus believed and was baptized (Acts 22:16). The Phillipian Jailer believed in verse 31 and was baptized in verse 32. The 3000 Jews on Pentecost believed and were baptized.and had their sins remitted which is the same as were “saved.” So even if you removed Mark 16:16 from the Bible, there is still enough evidence of its truth in the scriptures that it would not be hard to figure out. Especially since 1 Peter 3:21 removes any doubt about whether or not baptism is necessary to salvation.

Point #2– we can figure out whether it’s water baptism or Spirit baptism that saves us by looking closely at the scriptures.
First, there were 3 ways you could get the Holy Spirit according to scripture. 1) by a miraculous baptism ( pouring out) of the Spirit, 2) by the apostles laying their hands on you and giving it to you, or 3) by being baptized in water (Acts 2:38). We know Acts 2:38 was water baptism because the Holy Spirit was promised to them as a “gift” AFTER they were baptized for the remission of sins. When you have your sins remitted that is evidence of salvation. So the Spirit was given to them AFTER they were saved. If the baptism in verse 38 had been “Spirit” baptism then they got the Spirit twice—the first time when they were baptized with it and again after they were baptized. So What Peter would have been saying is be baptized with spirit baptism and you will receive the gift of the Spirit. No, that doesn’t even make sense. .
We know the Eunuch’s baptism was water because he said “here is water. I want to be baptized.” We know Cornelius ‘s baptism was water because they had already been baptized with the Holy Spirit when Peter commanded them to be baptized. As far as what the Bible records there was only 2 times a miraculous baptism fell on people; that was in Acts2 and Acts 10. Since there are no apostles alive today to lay their hands on us and give us the spirit, I’m going to say that water baptism is the “one” baptism in Eph. 4:4. We know that Peter was talking about water baptism when he said it saves us because he used the waters of the flood as a parallel.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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#12
Apr 21, 2021
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#12
And here we have it, yet another thread to further confuse people over one of the simplest things in the New Testament.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#15
Dec 18, 2021
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#15
Beckworth said:
The reason baptism is discussed so much is because there is so much controversy surrounding it. There is division over it. There are so many different views about it and so many different beliefs. No one differs on whether or not we should “serve the poor.” We are mostly all in agreement over that. Or love our neighbor or eat the Lord’s supper. There is no need to discuss such things for we pretty much all agree. It’s mostly our “differences” that we debate.
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i agree

Everything knows we should serve the poor. People do not do it as a means to get saved (Well i am sure some do as everything they do they think is going to pay their debt to God to be saved) But baptism is put in a pedestal as the one stop get saved work.

It truly replaced circumcision in the NT as the means to salvation.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#16
Dec 18, 2021
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#16
Beckworth said:
I can’t find a single verse in the Bible that says to “get baptized because you are saved”
But I CAN find where it says baptism is “FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. (Actsc2:38) and where baptism WASHES AWAY SINS. (Acts 22:16) and where it puts baptism BEFORE salvation (Mark 16:16) and I can find where the Bible says BAPTISM SAVES US. (1 Peter 3:21) BUT I have never seen a scripture that says we are baptized because we are already saved.
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lol. Whatever.. Those passages do nto say what you think they say, but hey, you want to earn your salvation feel free.. don;t let me stop you
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#17
Dec 18, 2021
5,577
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#17
ResidentAlien said:
And here we have it, yet another thread to further confuse people over one of the simplest things in the New Testament.
Click to expand...
Baptism is the new circumcision.

the jew added circumcision, many in the church add water baptism.. great symbols of the circumcision or baptism performed by God and great teaching tools..

But sadly. Satans greatest victories to keep people from the truth.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#18
May 15, 2019
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#18
Beckworth said:
Point #3: That does not prove anything. Peter did not say “Repent and be baptized in any other place but that does not prove it’s not true. There is only one scripture that says confession is unto salvation Romans 10:10. It’s not said anywhere else in the Bible but that does not prove it’s not true. God only needs to say it once for it to be true.
The reason God did not say “He that does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned” is because He did not need to say that. It’s obvious that no UNBELIEVER would ever be baptized! I guess God credited us with enough sense to figure that out.

I don’t know what other passages you are talking about where Jesus left baptism out. You will have to give me those in order for me to know how to answer.

Point #4: obviously not every believer could speak in tongues, lay hands on people and heal them, not every believer could cast out demons, handle serpents or drink poison. This was a time when spiritual gifts were in existence. Paul said those “gifts” would cease when the perfect will of God was completed. Jesus in this setting is speaking to the eleven apostles and we know they could do these things but it was never a general prediction for every saved person in the kingdom. Since these special powers have ceased, of course if you try to handle serpents or drink poison today, you will very likely die. That does not disprove what Jesus said to His disciples..

I guess claiming that scriptures that you can’t refute were added at a later time may be considered one way to “get around them,” but the problem is, that these scriptures that you want to claim were added later do not contradict anything else in the Bible. They are consistent with the rest of the New Testament; so I don’t see how that is going to help your case. For example, in Acts 8:12 you have Mark 16:16 repeated. Men and women believed and were baptized. Simon “believed and was baptized. The Ethiopian eunuch believed and STOPPED THE CHARIOT to be baptized. Saul of Tarsus believed and was baptized (Acts 22:16). The Phillipian Jailer believed in verse 31 and was baptized in verse 32. The 3000 Jews on Pentecost believed and were baptized.and had their sins remitted which is the same as were “saved.” So even if you removed Mark 16:16 from the Bible, there is still enough evidence of its truth in the scriptures that it would not be hard to figure out. Especially since 1 Peter 3:21 removes any doubt about whether or not baptism is necessary to salvation.

Point #2– we can figure out whether it’s water baptism or Spirit baptism that saves us by looking closely at the scriptures.
First, there were 3 ways you could get the Holy Spirit according to scripture. 1) by a miraculous baptism ( pouring out) of the Spirit, 2) by the apostles laying their hands on you and giving it to you, or 3) by being baptized in water (Acts 2:38). We know Acts 2:38 was water baptism because the Holy Spirit was promised to them as a “gift” AFTER they were baptized for the remission of sins. When you have your sins remitted that is evidence of salvation. So the Spirit was given to them AFTER they were saved. If the baptism in verse 38 had been “Spirit” baptism then they got the Spirit twice—the first time when they were baptized with it and again after they were baptized. So What Peter would have been saying is be baptized with spirit baptism and you will receive the gift of the Spirit. No, that doesn’t even make sense. .
We know the Eunuch’s baptism was water because he said “here is water. I want to be baptized.” We know Cornelius ‘s baptism was water because they had already been baptized with the Holy Spirit when Peter commanded them to be baptized. As far as what the Bible records there was only 2 times a miraculous baptism fell on people; that was in Acts2 and Acts 10. Since there are no apostles alive today to lay their hands on us and give us the spirit, I’m going to say that water baptism is the “one” baptism in Eph. 4:4. We know that Peter was talking about water baptism when he said it saves us because he used the waters of the flood as a parallel.
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“Come, let us reason together, says the Lord.” Isaiah 1:18. The Lord invites you to use your MIND and use your intellect, and even your common sense and examine what he says.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#19
May 15, 2019
461
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#19
Everlasting-Grace said:
lol. Whatever.. Those passages do nto say what you think they say, but hey, you want to earn your salvation feel free.. don;t let me stop you
Click to expand...
So, if they don’t say what I am saying, WHAT DO THEY SAY? Please, enlighten me.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#20
May 15, 2019
461
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#20
Everlasting-Grace said:
2 things,

1. Unbelievers get baptized all the time.
2. Is it water baptism Jesus spoke about. or spirit baptism
3. Jesus in no other place said he who believes and is baptized will not be condemned, It is odd that Jesus left baptism out in all the other passages.
4. Get bit by snakes and drink poison, Many believers in God have died of snake bites and drinking poisonous substances, So because of point 3 and 4, many people have found that these were not in the origional autographs, but added at a later date
Click to expand...
Not sure I understand this. I agree babies are unbelievers and get baptized; I believe that was view #

Magenta said:
Yep. Babies, too.
Click to expand...
Everlasting-Grace said:
2 things,

1. Unbelievers get baptized all the time.
2. Is it water baptism Jesus spoke about. or spirit baptism
3. Jesus in no other place said he who believes and is baptized will not be condemned, It is odd that Jesus left baptism out in all the other passages.
4. Get bit by snakes and drink poison, Many believers in God have died of snake bites and drinking poisonous substances, So because of point 3 and 4, many people have found that these were not in the origional autographs, but added at a later date
Click to expand...

I know babies get baptized; that is VIEW# 2 in the original post. But who are the other UNBELIEVERS who are getting baptized? And what kind of baptism are they getting? Surely not the one that’s “in the name of Jesus”? Since they don’t believe in him—why are they being baptized? We are not talking about some foreign god or foreign baptism. We are talking about the baptism that Jesus commanded in Matthew 18:18-19. Where they are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. There are unbelievers being baptized in the name of the Trinity?? Really??
 
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