The word of God is not a secret code that needs unlocked.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#23
-- of Paul's writings (which Peter includes as themselves being "scriptures") "[are] some things hard-to-be-understood"... Peter acknowledges
True. But only "some things", and very few things. But the words of Christ are easy to be understood. He always spoke plainly, directly, and without wasting words. He knew He was addressing simple folks.

As to parables, they were given to hide spiritual truths from His enemies. But we have been shown what they mean. And parables are just that. Earthly stories with heavenly meanings. Doctrine cannot be based exclusively on parables.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#24
I do not belive the word of God is a secret code that has to be figured out, unlocked or decoded.
God is not a god of mystery, he is not a god of confusion.
Except when God confused the languages of the people at the tower of Babel. The word itself means 'confusion'.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#27
Except when God confused the languages of the people at the tower of Babel. The word itself means 'confusion'.
Now you are the confused one. This has nothing to do with the plainness of Scripture (no hidden codes). That was all about stopping united idolatry.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#28
Now you are the confused one. This has nothing to do with the plainness of Scripture (no hidden codes). That was all about stopping united idolatry.
I think the peeps at the tower were the ones who were now confused.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#29
EVERYONE reads the Bible with their own personally made blinders and filters.
It requires a friend to help. (Cognitive Biases and Cognitive Dissonances)

Because you can't be a Christian alone....you have to do it with people.

The first word of the Lord's prayer should be the clue.

"Our" of "Our Father...." means that someone is speaking on behalf of others.
I never picked up on that, "Our". That definitely implies more than one.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#30
??? I have a KJV, it is not written in "16th-century English".
You probably have the King James 2000 Bible. Which effectively destroys the narrative about 17th century English (which is not that quaint at all). Thousands still us the standard KJV without any problem. And all Christians should be using it.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#31
true.

But very few have done this.. for the rest. they need something written in their own language..
The KJV is the English translation. It's language is precise. No need to water it down to the American language of today...slang.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#32
Thousands still us the standard KJV without any problem.
Millions...just saying.

When you picture a country family in the hills of West Virginia, kids playing in the yard, mom and dad sipping tea, not much education...what bible do you think is on their mantle? The KJV.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#33
Millions...just saying. When you picture a country family in the hills of West Virginia, kids playing in the yard, mom and dad sipping tea, not much education...what bible do you think is on their mantle? The KJV.
And that's all? That's your take on how many Christians use it? Go to Amazon and see how many different kinds of King James Bibles are being offered. If there was no wide market for them, do you think the publishers would keep printing them? Pastor John Hagee has more than 22,000 members in his church and he uses the KJV exclusively. Don't you think all those members would also be using them?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,799
113
#34
???
I have a KJV, it is not written in "16th-century English".
Yes, it is. Why do you think it contains words strange to modern readers like "wimples", "beesom", and "thou"? It was penned by scholars who were already adults by the time the 16th century turned into the 17th, so their language was from the previous.

If you think otherwise, I welcome you to present your argument, "No, it's not" doesn't qualify.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
2,530
113
#35
You probably have the King James 2000 Bible. Which effectively destroys the narrative about 17th century English (which is not that quaint at all). Thousands still us the standard KJV without any problem. And all Christians should be using it.
Define: "without any problem"
:cool:
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#36
Define: "without any problem"
:cool:
That is quite simple. When you disregard some of the spellings (like "hast" for "has", "doest" for "does") and accept the fact that when one person is addressed the KJV uses "thou", and when there are many it is "you" (like in German) what do you have?

Plain English (no hidden codes) as see here in John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth [shines] in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. Just one word that goes by the older spelling. Of course a child would need the explanation for "comprehended". So would any adult.

Could a child read this and understand as in the KJV 2000?: And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness overcame it not. But even "overcame" is not entirely correct. The meaning of katalambano is "to lay hold of" or "to seize" or "to capture". So here is where anyone would need to use proper Bible study tools. That should be SOP for anyone studying the Bible.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#37
Yes, it is. Why do you think it contains words strange to modern readers like "wimples", "beesom", and "thou"?
So you pick the very few ancient words, but "thou" is not ancient and it is more accurate (explained above). And why do you think you have a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance along with Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Vine's Expository Dictionary?

Words such as "wimple" etc may be a couple of dozen. Not a big deal as you would have people believe.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,799
113
#38
So you pick the very few ancient words, but "thou" is not ancient and it is more accurate (explained above). And why do you think you have a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance along with Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Vine's Expository Dictionary?

Words such as "wimple" etc may be a couple of dozen. Not a big deal as you would have people believe.
I am not in need of explanations, thanks. I am also well aware of the reference material. The fact remains that the KJV was written in 16th-century English. That some and even most words have not changed is irrelevant. Many modern readers find it sufficiently incomprehensible as to reject it in favour of a modern translation.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,799
113
#39
17th century English?
The men who penned the KJV were all mature adults by 1600, which is the beginning of the 17th century. They would have learned English during their formative years... in the 16th century. I'm confident they did not pander to linguistic fads only a decade old or less. ;)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,340
29,589
113
#40
The men who penned the KJV were all mature adults by 1600, which is the beginning of the 17th century. They would have learned English during their formative years... in the 16th century. I'm confident they did not pander to linguistic fads only a decade old or less. ;)
You make a very good point! .:)