Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Bible does not say anyone will be on Earth during the millenium.

...not one verse talking about the earth being empty of humanity during that time. What internet preacher do you listen to and believe?

(made me laugh!)

Nobody will be on the earth in the Millennium? Really? You still have not shown that to us.

My thought is that he *must* have left out a word in his sentence, which he had intended to say.

[?]

TMS said:
The Bible does not say anyone will be _____ on Earth during the millenium.

... and I think the word he INTENDED to put, belonged in that place ^ (underlined). lol

 

[Genez]

The bottom line is that nobody looses their salvation within the dispensation of grace. The objections I've seen this are always steeped in hypotheticals, with them necer explaining how anyone today can become UNborn again and UNsealed by Holy Spirit.

I would say that you feel differently now because NOW you are truly saved. Salvation is not a feeling, it's becoming a whole new creation.

MM

Those who think we can lose our salvation?
Have some other guy named Jesus, telling us...

"I died for all sins of the world.​

​

Except, for the sins I did not die for. ​

​

Jump into that pond?​

And, you wash away the blood that saves you!"​

​

They picture a nasty, petty, spiteful, legalistic god.

One needs to be a very spiteful person to see God in their own image.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

If the tribulations believers are raised post tribulation, who are they reigning over with Christ? There is no-one left to populate the earth for the Millennium.

I know that MANY folks [incorrectly] believe that UNBELIEVERS / the UNSAVED will be who ENTERS the Millennial Kingdom age (contrary to all that the Gospels have to say about that!)... and they *think* this [muchly-]BECAUSE they place the "Sheep and goat [separation-]judgment" (Matt25:31-46) at the GWTj time-slot of the chronology (i.e. FOLLOWING the 1000 yrs), which is NOT AT ALL "when" it will take place.


(That's just ONE factor of their "reasoning" on this point... there are several other incorrect notions they add to the mix, to come up with this; MISPLACING the time-frame for Dan7:12 is another one... [It is PAST history, not "FUTURE" to us!])

 

[Genez]

-------------------------------------------------------

Is this the first resurrection?? Rev 20:6

Revelation 20:6​

Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. ​

The second death has no power over them, but they will be ​

priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.​

First and Second speak of types... Not chronological order.

There are two kinds of resurrections.

One type is for the believer.
The Second type is the incinerator.

Those thrown into the Lake of Fire will take place only after all believers throughout history (church and non-church) have been resurrected in their everlasting bodies.

The unbeliever will be resurrected into his body of sin to stand before the Lord and be condemned.
They will appear in their body of this earth
That is why Jesus said that they would die in their sins!

The second death is stated as such because after being brought back to life physically, that body will be thrown into the flames to experience their second death! The antithesis of being born again!

 

[Genez]

I know that MANY folks [incorrectly] believe that UNBELIEVERS / the UNSAVED will be who ENTERS the Millennial Kingdom age (contrary to all that the Gospels have to say about that!)... and they *think* this [muchly-]BECAUSE they place the "Sheep and goat [separation-]judgment" (Matt25:31-46) at the GWTj time-slot of the chronology (i.e. FOLLOWING the 1000 yrs), which is NOT AT ALL "when" it will take place.


(That's just ONE factor of their "reasoning" on this point... there are several other incorrect notions they add to the mix, to come up with this; MISPLACING the time-frame for Dan7:12 is another one... [It is PAST history, not "FUTURE" to us!])

Like with after Noah's flood...
The new earth will begin with only believers.
Over time, unbelievers will be born into the world.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Like with after Noah's flood...
The new earth will begin with only believers.
Over time, unbelievers will be born into the world.

Agreed!

 

[Musicmaster]

Like with after Noah's flood...
The new earth will begin with only believers.
Over time, unbelievers will be born into the world.

Huh?

The new earth will have sinners born into it?

Where did THAT come from?

Didn't you mean the Millennial Kingdom?

MM

 

[sawdust]

The Tribulation believers are those that underwent the Great Tribulation.

They are raised at the end of the Great Tribulation. This is the first resurrection.

They only join with Jesus for a thousand year reign on earth.

I think the text explains what happens after the thousand year reign of Jesus.

Revelation 20:7-9
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come
out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather
them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came
up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city,
and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

After that Satan is thrown into the lake of fire.

Then we have the second resurrection.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened;
and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things
which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

So the nations of the earth are still there all the way through.

Are the Tribulation saints Jew or Gentile believers?

The text does not specify probably a mixture of Gentile and Jew.

To say the "Tribulation believers are those that underwent the Great Tribulation" is rather circular and doesn't tell me who you think they are. Are they the Church, those in Christ? Are they Jewish believers only? Are they a mix of Jewish believers and Gentile believers who live in and worship with Israel? Or a mix of Jewish and Gentile believers throughout the world?

I am trying to picture the practical ramifications of what you are saying.

Do you see only the Resurrected entering the Millennium? If so how can they be deceived at the end? Doesn't give us a great deal of hope if we can still be deceived in our resurrection bodies does it?

If only some believers are resurrected to enter the Millennium and others enter in their flesh bodies, what is the criteria that determines that separation?

Or do you picture there will be unbelievers entering the Millennium alongside believers?

Are you actually seeing in your mind the implication of what you say or are you simply repeating a verse without understanding?

 

[sawdust]

Huh?

The new earth will have sinners born into it?

Where did THAT come from?

Didn't you mean the Millennial Kingdom?

MM

I believe the Millennium is to what he is referring however do you understand Isaiah 65 as a reference to the eternal state or the Millennium?

 

[sawdust]

The Bible does not say anyone will be on Earth during the millenium.

This is a false teaching that has no biblical support.

Huh? Who gets deceived when Satan is loosed if there is no-one on earth? You think God let's him back into heaven to do his dirty work after already having had him thrown down to earth?

I may not be able to produce a specific verse but common sense based on what scripture says prevails when specifics don't.

Show me your scriptural reasoning for believing no-one is on earth during the Millennium.

 

[sawdust]

I know that MANY folks [incorrectly] believe that UNBELIEVERS / the UNSAVED will be who ENTERS the Millennial Kingdom age (contrary to all that the Gospels have to say about that!)... and they *think* this [muchly-]BECAUSE they place the "Sheep and goat [separation-]judgment" (Matt25:31-46) at the GWTj time-slot of the chronology (i.e. FOLLOWING the 1000 yrs), which is NOT AT ALL "when" it will take place.


(That's just ONE factor of their "reasoning" on this point... there are several other incorrect notions they add to the mix, to come up with this; MISPLACING the time-frame for Dan7:12 is another one... [It is PAST history, not "FUTURE" to us!])

Sometimes I wonder if people simply repeat Bible verses but never envision the practical outworking of what they say and think it through to it's logical end.

 

[Musicmaster]

I believe the Millennium is to what he is referring however do you understand Isaiah 65 as a reference to the eternal state or the Millennium?

By doing a perusal oversight, it looks like Isaiah 65 is definitely talking about the new Heaven and new Earth, where no corruption will ever invade.

MM

 

[Inquisitor]

Like with after Noah's flood...
The new earth will begin with only believers.
Over time, unbelievers will be born into the world.

The strangest reply I have ever seen?

 

[Inquisitor]

To say the "Tribulation believers are those that underwent the Great Tribulation" is rather circular and doesn't tell me who you think they are. Are they the Church, those in Christ? Are they Jewish believers only? Are they a mix of Jewish believers and Gentile believers who live in and worship with Israel? Or a mix of Jewish and Gentile believers throughout the world?

I am trying to picture the practical ramifications of what you are saying.

Do you see only the Resurrected entering the Millennium? If so how can they be deceived at the end? Doesn't give us a great deal of hope if we can still be deceived in our resurrection bodies does it?

If only some believers are resurrected to enter the Millennium and others enter in their flesh bodies, what is the criteria that determines that separation?

Or do you picture there will be unbelievers entering the Millennium alongside believers?

Are you actually seeing in your mind the implication of what you say or are you simply repeating a verse without understanding?

Have you read the text?

Have a look at Revelation 20 again.

Read it carefully.

Then get back to me.

 

[Inquisitor]

Rev 19, 20, 21 states the way it will all happen.

Jesus is coming as king of kings.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
He tells the birds to feast on the dead.
And the rest are destroyed.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant (remaining) were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Only the save survive the second coming

Rev 20 explains that the devil is cast into a bottomless pit. That Word means abyss
The same description given to the earth before creation. A void. Wasteland.

Rev 20:5-6
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

No evil will be with the saved. They are safe with Jesus.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Satan now has souls to tempt
Satan can start working against Jesus again. He is loosed out of his chains.

Rev 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The second death is for those not written in the book of life.
The unsaved.
After the 1000 years the heavenly city comes down to earth. Earth is cleansed by fire and recreated

Rev 21:1-2 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Vs 8 states that the unsaved face the second death.

Mat 5:3-10
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. .....5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. ......10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Both the new earth and the kingdom of Heaven will be given to the saved.

First 1000 years in heaven then the holy city comes down to earth and earth is recreated, made new.

Did you notice the following verse?

Rev 20:5-6
5 ...This is the first resurrection.

If the first resurrection took place then when is the second resurrection to take place?

 

[TMS]

Amen to that...although we won't be here for that...

MM

What happens if your wrong.

You are so sure about the order, but you haven't given bible verses

Test all things.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Show me from scripture please.

2Ti 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Show me that it is not a fable.
1Ti 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

 

[Inquisitor]

It says... They came to life. It does not say they were resurrected. They, like Lazarus... will be raised in their bodies,
and it says will reign (on earth) for 1000 years.

As for the Bride of Christ?

It won't be only for 1000 years.

For the Bride of the King reigns wherever the King reigns.
He will reign beyond a mere 1000 years! Reigns Forever!

There is a difference...

The text calls it "the first resurrection"!

How can you say they were not resurrected?

 

[Genez]

Huh?

The new earth will have sinners born into it?

Where did THAT come from?

Didn't you mean the Millennial Kingdom?

MM

I was talking about the Millennium "new earth."

There will be two new earths.
First one will be the earth of the Millennium.
At the end of 1000 years Satan will be loosed to wage war against the Lamb
and be destroyed with finality.

Then, when a thousand years are done?

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear
with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and
everything done in it will be laid bare." 2 Peter 3:10

God will destroy the heavens and earth with fire and begin with another "new" earth.
That new earth will be called "the Home of Righteousness."

But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven
and a new earth, the Home of Righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13

grace and peace .................

 

[Genez]

Huh?

The new earth will have sinners born into it?

Where did THAT come from?

Didn't you mean the Millennial Kingdom?

MM

There are two "new earths."

 

[Genez]

The text calls it "the first resurrection"!

How can you say they were not resurrected?

I am tired of trying to figure out how you are misunderstanding me.