Question about women in the church.

[cv5]

Do you know how many christians take this scripture out of context?
Do you know the historical context of the churches of Ephesus of which Timothy had overseeing authority?
I urge you to dig deep.... so far you've missed it completely.

Well....I am sure that the earliest Church fathers dug deeply. Much deeper than most in this day and age.
And there were zero women pastors recorded as leading any sort of duly consecrated body of believers for.....
hundreds of years. There were those engaged in assisting their husbands, yes. But never leading.

I will not waste time seeking to find exactly when the very first "woman pastor" is recorded leading a congregation showed up on the scene, but I will safely assume that it was relatively recently.

Ok I did take a quick look: so yes.....quite recently in fact.

• 1815: Clarissa Danforth was ordained in New England. She was the first woman ordained by the Free Will Baptist denomination.
• 1861: Mary A. Will was the first woman ordained in the Wesleyan Methodist Connection by the Illinois Conference in the United States. The Wesleyan Methodist Connection eventually became the Wesleyan Church.
• 1862: Bishop of London licenses Elizabeth Ferard as the first deaconess in the Church of England. Ferard founded the North London Deaconess Institution.[9]

1865: The Salvation Army was founded, which in the English Methodist tradition always ordained both men and women.[7] However, there were initially rules that prohibited a woman from marrying a man who had a lower rank.[7]

And on it goes.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women's_ordination

Surely this is not the final word on the matter. But it is food for thought.

 

[KohenMatt]

My church currently has a female Head Pastor and a Male Associate Pastor for the ~20 years the church has been in existence, we've had men as the Head Pastor and Associate Pastor (which I was for about 16 years.)

The verses in Corinthians and Timothy about women not teaching are usually taken out of context. The instruction was given to a specific church in to address a specific question or problem. Yes, we can learn much from the epistles, but knowing the context of the instruction is crucial to knowing what God is trying to communicate.

 

[cv5]

My church currently has a female Head Pastor and a Male Associate Pastor for the ~20 years the church has been in existence, we've had men as the Head Pastor and Associate Pastor (which I was for about 16 years.)

The verses in Corinthians and Timothy about women not teaching are usually taken out of context. The instruction was given to a specific church in to address a specific question or problem. Yes, we can learn much from the epistles, but knowing the context of the instruction is crucial to knowing what God is trying to communicate.

I would never.....ever......aid, abet, assist or attend a Church with a female Pastor leading. Ever.

And this is why.

1Ti 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

1Ti 2:13
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

The reasoning goes all the way back to the creation. And then the fall.
With all of the staggeringly enormous implications.
Sure most people do not "get it". But that would be their problem and not mine.

 

[daisyseesthesun]

It's not really that complicated; it comes down to money. If a congregation appears to be modern and with the times, it puts more butts in the seats. More butts in the seats = more cash flow. I'd just forget about them and keep moving until you find the right place for you.

Residentalien,

this reminds me of one part from the movie Sheffey.

Sheffey "you see the new attitudes creeping among your leaders" (the Christian leaders)
Ed Bailey "its so hard to understand, they pick the bible apart, they criticize everything i believe. they do it so smoothly i don't know what to think."

'what are they trying to do? They want to call themselves Christians because it respectable. but they try to tear down everything Christianity is every been based upon. They say Christ is not the son of God but they try to support a religion that is based on this very fact. They claim the bible is only a human book ( living bible) but everything they know about their religion is based on it. They claim to follow Christianity and then deny everything Christianity has ever taught.

Ed Bailey "on the other had theirs so many others, good men who still believe everything i believe (the whole bible)"

Sheffey "there are a good many, but they seem to have less and less influence. It's always the liberal attituded that are attractive.


Let them worship how they want but us be like "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord"

 

[Edify]

I would never.....ever......aid, abet, assist or attend a Church with a female Pastor leading. Ever.

And this is why.

1Ti 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

1Ti 2:13
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

The reasoning goes all the way back to the creation. And then the fall.
With all of the staggeringly enormous implications.
Sure most people do not "get it". But that would be their problem and not mine.

You DO know this scripture speaks only about personal christian conduct & family conduct, right?

 

[cv5]

You DO know this scripture speaks only about personal christian conduct & family conduct, right?

Right. And your point is?

 

[Edify]

Right. And your point is?

It has NOTHING to do with ministries or who does them.
It is not a ministry qualifier/disqualifier.

 

[daisyseesthesun]

Right. And your point is?

28While my soul was still searching but not finding, among a thousand I have found one upright man, but among all these I have not found one such woman." Ecclesiastes 7:28

This does not mean that there are no Righteous woman just that they are fewer in number. If God calls one to be a preacher or a teacher ect... what business is it of yours? "Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. " Romans 14:4–6

 

[cv5]

"Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. " Romans 14:4–6

Paul has already rendered Gods judgement on this matter.
My inputs are not relevant nor required.

But hey.....if you desire women pastors knock yourself out.
But you had better hurry. The eschatological clock is ticking down.

 

[cv5]

It has NOTHING to do with ministries or who does them.
It is not a ministry qualifier/disqualifier.

Really. Well, I guess that leaves you in a rather compromising position.

Thank God its not my problem.

 

[Mem]

I don't think that asking questions and trying to get to the truth of a matter according to God's will for us is ignorance.

I was demonstrating being quiet and holding my peace, even while speaking in a congregation of believers.

There are as many silly women as there are foolish men that shouldn't be preaching the word of God if they don't rightly understand it.

Are you asking this question because you are, indeed, genuinely, considering that you might not actually seeing the truth? or are you asking only for reinforcement of your position about it, so you feel better in continuing to discredit actual women given bonafide authority from Him which hold all authority, and He has every right dole that out as He sees fit, to handle the word of God?

 

[Derobo]

Here is a bit to chew on.
1. Jesus didn't choose any women disciples, none of the 12 were women. (think about this a bit)
also what does a disciple mean? it means a learner or a student.
Jesus was their teacher and he teached them the Gospel and everything they should know so that they would later proclaim those words, he choose women because since Adam and Eve the mans role is the leader role since he was first, Eve was made to be the helper.

Gen 2:18 Then the LORD God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”

2. There are none examples of any woman leader roles in the new testament, not during Jesus time and not after he left.
3. The Christian Church didn't ordain any women pastors until the 1800's. ( so for circa 1800 years no one ordained woman pastors )

Either Jesus, the disciples and the 1800 years of church history is wrong or the last 200 years is wrong, i know what im betting on, and we are in the end times its expected that there are heresies left and right, you see homosexual pastors, and all kind of unbiblical things along with woman pastors today, its all and the same, ( unbiblical and unhistorical )

I know this is a touchy subject having fair and share deal with it, in the end we all have to ask ourselves why would we change what Jesus did and why would we be different than the first 1800 years of church history, instead we should submit to each God given role and be blessed in it, no one are less because of their roles, but if we go against the history then imo we are rebellious and that is not good mildly said.

 

[cv5]

Here is a bit to chew on.
1. Jesus didn't choose any women disciples, none of the 12 were women. (think about this a bit)
also what does a disciple mean? it means a learner or a student.
Jesus was their teacher and he teached them the Gospel and everything they should know so that they would later proclaim those words, he choose women because since Adam and Eve the mans role is the leader role since he was first, Eve was made to be the helper.

Gen 2:18 Then the LORD God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”

2. There are none examples of any woman leader roles in the new testament, not during Jesus time and not after he left.
3. The Christian Church didn't ordain any women pastors until the 1800's. ( so for circa 1800 years no one ordained woman pastors )

Either Jesus, the disciples and the 1800 years of church history is wrong or the last 200 years is wrong, i know what im betting on, and we are in the end times its expected that there are heresies left and right, you see homosexual pastors, and all kind of unbiblical things along with woman pastors today, its all and the same, ( unbiblical and unhistorical )

I know this is a touchy subject having fair and share deal with it, in the end we all have to ask ourselves why would we change what Jesus did and why would we be different than the first 1800 years of church history, instead we should submit to each God given role and be blessed in it, no one are less because of their roles, but if we go against the history then imo we are rebellious and that is not good mildly said.

100%. Somebody has a firm grip on reality.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

So an informal setting for women to explain the the way of God more clearly to men is alright?
Where exactly in the Bible is that?

You just pointed out the example of Aquilla and Priscilla! Good grief!


🍄

 

[Derobo]

100%. Somebody has a firm grip on reality.

Amen brother, i just love the truth.
i have dived deep into the details of the Bible on particular subjects and also the early church and the history in general, many people don't have time for this but i do.
in the end im not perfect, but i hunger for the truth no matter what it is.
my feelings are not before Gods word!
God bless you.
its late here, Good night from Denmark 🇩🇰

 

[daisyseesthesun]

Here is a bit to chew on.
1. Jesus didn't choose any women disciples, none of the 12 were women. (think about this a bit).

Derobo,

Paul praised women like Priscilla and Lydia who were leaders in the early church, and his evangelistic ministry was one of partnership with women However, Paul said in I Cor. 14 that women were to keep silent in the church, and in I Timothy 2:12, “I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man” Paul's statement in 1 Timothy 2:12 appears to be a teaching related to role relationships, and he is saying that females should not "wear" the mantle of doctrinal authority in the local church.

Jesus couldn't have any female apostle. what even today they say peter was a secret girl or that he had a relationship with Mary,

also let just forget how jealous men are. lets just completely ignore that truth... How many women of prominence in the ancient world was killed by such men? LOTS1 well God knows he made the world and the men in it he made those guidelines to protect us.

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:”

 

[Webers.Home]

.
What instigated Suffrage? What instigated Feminism? What instigated ERA?
What instigated equal pay for equal work? What instigated Christian female
teachers and preachers, and female positions on church boards? Why is the
average woman so intent upon equality with men? Duh.

"The natural mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can
it do so. Those controlled by nature cannot please God." (Rom 8:7-8)

Progressive Christian women are not walking in the Spirit like they're
supposed to, no, they are walking in culture think instead; and that's
definitely not a good thing for them to be doing.

● 1John 1:6 . . If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the
darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
_

 

[KohenMatt]

I would never.....ever......aid, abet, assist or attend a Church with a female Pastor leading. Ever.

And this is why.

1Ti 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

1Ti 2:13
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

The reasoning goes all the way back to the creation. And then the fall.
With all of the staggeringly enormous implications.
Sure most people do not "get it". But that would be their problem and not mine.

And you are welcome to your opinion. I believe you take those Scriptures out of context, but that is your own personal viewpoint. We should be diligent in rightly dividing which Scriptures are for the Body at large, or the specific and local gatherings, which I believe applies to the Scriptures in Timothy and Corinthians.

 

[Derobo]

Derobo,

Paul praised women like Priscilla and Lydia who were leaders in the early church, and his evangelistic ministry was one of partnership with women However, Paul said in I Cor. 14 that women were to keep silent in the church, and in I Timothy 2:12, “I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man” Paul's statement in 1 Timothy 2:12 appears to be a teaching related to role relationships, and he is saying that females should not "wear" the mantle of doctrinal authority in the local church.

Jesus couldn't have any female apostle. what even today they say peter was a secret girl or that he had a relationship with Mary,

also let just forget how jealous men are. lets just completely ignore that truth... How many women of prominence in the ancient world was killed by such men? LOTS1 well God knows he made the world and the men in it he made those guidelines to protect us.

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:”

Im sorry but that is not true at all ☺️.

Priscilla and Lydia were no leaders in the early church.
Priscilla was a helper along with Aquila.
Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

And Lydia was a sales woman.

Act 16:14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

There are no examples in the whole New testament of a Woman leader in the church not 1, i checked it and have studied this for a long time, you will never find it.

and as i said. the fact that Jesus didn't choose 1 women out of the 12 disciples says ALOT.

then we have the first 1800s years of history with no woman leaders in the church,
it was simply never there until the beginning of the 1800 ( last 200 years )

if you love the truth you will search for this and put away your feelings. ( clearly you have something against men calling them all jealous )

God bless you sister, and don't take any of it personally, let us strive for the truth and not let our feelings get in the way.

anyway have to sleep now FOR REAL!!

 

[Edify]

You just pointed out the example of Aquilla and Priscilla! Good grief!


🍄

I meant, where in the NT is your doctrine taught?