Question about women in the church.

[Magenta]

Genesis 2:18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” (ezer kenegdo explanation)

 

[Dino246]

The thing is, you do not understand it either. Bummer.

Hmm… no evidence to support your insult. That reflects rather poorly on you.

 

[tourist]

Interesting that you assume what I do or don't know about Eve's name. But no hard feelings, there is much I hope you find out eventually as well .



Not nearly as tragic nor as common as being sure when you are not.

For sure.

 

[cv5]

Hmm… no evidence to support your insult. That reflects rather poorly on you.

Here you go:

https://christianchat.com/threads/question-about-women-in-the-church.216511/post-5374136

“Cursed is the ground because of you” is something that most men work *against*, not with. It’s something that (most) Christian men don’t wish upon others nor do they tell others to embrace it or even accept it. They don’t cultivate the thorns and thistles, but remove them so good things can flourish.

This is your exegetical treatment? Well....it doesn't get much more clueless than that.

I will tell you what man. You can redeem yourself if you are able to comprehensively concatenate these passages.
Believe me, I am not holding my breath. And yes, it would (and should) fill at least 12 hours of lectures. Call it a solid 20 hours.
For starters just as a primer. Then begin the hard work of filling several volumes in the hundreds and hundreds of hours.

Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

===================================================================================

Gen 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

=================================================================================

Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

[Dino246]

Here you go:

https://christianchat.com/threads/question-about-women-in-the-church.216511/post-5374136

“Cursed is the ground because of you” is something that most men work *against*, not with. It’s something that (most) Christian men don’t wish upon others nor do they tell others to embrace it or even accept it. They don’t cultivate the thorns and thistles, but remove them so good things can flourish.

This is your exegetical treatment? Well....it doesn't get much more clueless than that.

I will tell you what man. You can redeem yourself if you are able to comprehensively concatenate these passages.
Believe me, I am not holding my breath. And yes, it would (and should) fill at least 12 hours of lectures. Call it a solid 20 hours.
For starters just as a primer. Then begin the hard work of filling several volumes in the hundreds and hundreds of hours.

Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

===================================================================================

Gen 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

=================================================================================

Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

None of which is any evidence that I denied Scripture. Your insult is still baseless.

 

[Beckworth]

I went to a new church yesterday with hopes of maybe being discipled, to get some guidance and help in the faith.

As well as the pastor speaking, a woman and the pastor's wife done a bit of preaching.

This doesn't seem right at all, 1 Timothy 2:11-14 comes to mind.

11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.


I have nothing against women but do against the modern day attitude influenced by feminism and western culture that blatantly goes against God's word.

Also it seems a bit disturbing that no one speaks out about this, pastor's, people who have been in the faith for a long time, you'd think they'd know better? Why are people just letting this happen?

It seems most religious people believe it does not matter what you do in religion, they are going to be saved anyway. Almost as if God is OBLIGATED to save them. Satan has done a good job convincing people that it really doesn’t matter. They believe God is going to save them on their terms rather than on What the Bible says. Many people believe the Bible is irrelevant and that “culture” super-cedes what the Bible says. These are the ones pictured in Matthew 7 where, on judgement day, they will say “Lord, Lord…” and Jesus will say, “Deoart from me, I never knew you.”

The Bible is full of scriptures that warn us to obey what God says. 1Cor. 7:19, John 14:15, Matt. 7:21. God did not give us the Bible just so we could ignore what it says.
Ecclesiastics 12:13-“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter. FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. For this is man’s all.”

 

[Snackersmom]

Let us not forget @Snackersmom @Dino246 @Brasspen

There was a RANK and ORDER......to the Apostles!
In fact they were more or less divided into 4 groups.
Some had greater access, privilege and responsibility, some less.
A hierarchy that was instituted by the Chooser Himself. Who of course knew exactly what He was doing and why.

Oh the humanity!

Hi cv5.... I'm not sure why I was tagged in this post. But I do believe in a structure and order in church "hierarchy". People come through the doors at all different levels of understanding and you can't have the blind leading the blind. I'm very respectful of those God has placed in leadership.

I'm just very leery of those who place themselves in it.

 

[TheLearner]

not keeping up

 

[stilllearning]

"cursed is the ground for thy sake"

A fact that you did not, nor cannot explain or understand.
But I do understand perfectly well what God is saying......and why.

I also understand perfectly well why this mandate is still in force today.

Yet again you do grievously err. And it happens a lot. Tragically.

I have been of the thought that this fact is such damning evidence against secular academia. Anthropology and History acknowledge this fact. They acknowledge that around 4000 B.C. that mankind suddenly figured out agriculture and it made civilization possible. So the clearly see a time when growing food was not happening then it was happening.

Genesis 8:20-21 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

After the flood the Lord had lifted that curse from man. Secular academia records that with the tech of agriculture mankind was able to build civilization. Which prior to that the absence of growing food was a impediment to civilization.

So we have the Lord saying he cursed the ground then after the flood lifted that curse. Then in Genesis 9 we find the table of nations and then Genesis 10 mans first mass organization. Out of which grew city states and government till what we have today in the modern world of nation states and government.

So we have secular academia saying we could not grow food then we could grow food. It is the same thing that the Lord declares and indeed evidence that he exists as it is just as he has declared. Evidence that nature in fact speaks witness of him and even our very own history we acknowledge does as well. It happened as he has said.

 

[stilllearning]

I have been of the thought that this fact is such damning evidence against secular academia. Anthropology and History acknowledge this fact. They acknowledge that around 4000 B.C. that mankind suddenly figured out agriculture and it made civilization possible. So the clearly see a time when growing food was not happening then it was happening.

Genesis 8:20-21 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

After the flood the Lord had lifted that curse from man. Secular academia records that with the tech of agriculture mankind was able to build civilization. Which prior to that the absence of growing food was a impediment to civilization.

So we have the Lord saying he cursed the ground then after the flood lifted that curse. Then in Genesis 9 we find the table of nations and then Genesis 10 mans first mass organization. Out of which grew city states and government till what we have today in the modern world of nation states and government.

So we have secular academia saying we could not grow food then we could grow food. It is the same thing that the Lord declares and indeed evidence that he exists as it is just as he has declared. Evidence that nature in fact speaks witness of him and even our very own history we acknowledge does as well. It happened as he has said.

Post edit.........LOL

Genesis 10 the table of nations and Genesis 11 man organizing.

 

[cv5]

I have been of the thought that this fact is such damning evidence against secular academia. Anthropology and History acknowledge this fact. They acknowledge that around 4000 B.C. that mankind suddenly figured out agriculture and it made civilization possible. So the clearly see a time when growing food was not happening then it was happening.

Genesis 8:20-21 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

After the flood the Lord had lifted that curse from man. Secular academia records that with the tech of agriculture mankind was able to build civilization. Which prior to that the absence of growing food was a impediment to civilization.

So we have the Lord saying he cursed the ground then after the flood lifted that curse. Then in Genesis 9 we find the table of nations and then Genesis 10 mans first mass organization. Out of which grew city states and government till what we have today in the modern world of nation states and government.

So we have secular academia saying we could not grow food then we could grow food. It is the same thing that the Lord declares and indeed evidence that he exists as it is just as he has declared. Evidence that nature in fact speaks witness of him and even our very own history we acknowledge does as well. It happened as he has said.

"smite any more. H5750 "

Disagree. What God is saying is that he will not augment, or proclaim ADDITIONAL curses.
Then, God allows humans to consume animals. This would not be necessary if the ground was super productive.
Furthermore, there are thorns and thistles on the earth today, and agriculture is extremely difficult task and basically a war against the thorns, thistles and bugs. If you have a garden you know what I mean.

yaw-saf'; a primitive root; to add or augment

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. to add, increase, do again
   1. (Qal) to add, increase, do again
   2. (Niphal)
      1. to join, join oneself to
      2. to be joined, be added to
   3. (Hiphil)
      1. to cause to add, increase
      2. to do more, do again

BTW, here is the full quote. Both the cursed ground AND the sorrow are here with us to this present day.

Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

 

[cv5]

I have been of the thought that this fact is such damning evidence against secular academia. Anthropology and History acknowledge this fact. They acknowledge that around 4000 B.C. that mankind suddenly figured out agriculture and it made civilization possible. So the clearly see a time when growing food was not happening then it was happening.

Genesis 8:20-21 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

After the flood the Lord had lifted that curse from man. Secular academia records that with the tech of agriculture mankind was able to build civilization. Which prior to that the absence of growing food was a impediment to civilization.

So we have the Lord saying he cursed the ground then after the flood lifted that curse. Then in Genesis 9 we find the table of nations and then Genesis 10 mans first mass organization. Out of which grew city states and government till what we have today in the modern world of nation states and government.

So we have secular academia saying we could not grow food then we could grow food. It is the same thing that the Lord declares and indeed evidence that he exists as it is just as he has declared. Evidence that nature in fact speaks witness of him and even our very own history we acknowledge does as well. It happened as he has said.

BTW, there is a critical reason that God cursed the ground. To prevent mankind from becoming ever more decadent and evil.
Think in terms of the very wealthy and their "problems".

This is the same reasoning for preventing Adam and Eve from eating from the tree of life. God is doing both a big favor.
He always does.

Arguably, the pre-flood world (fallen angels and hybrids), Sodom, the land of Canaan, Jericho were all seeking to "reverse the curse".
In fact I am quite convinced that is will be an aspect of what the anti-christ (the Satan-man) will be "MERCHANDISING" at the end times. Maybe some kind of super-soldier DNA altering type deal. And the vast majority will be crashing the gates to get it.

Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Ecc 7:3
Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.

 

[stilllearning]

"smite any more. H5750 "

Disagree. What God is saying is that he will not augment, or proclaim ADDITIONAL curses.
Then, God allows humans to consume animals. This would not be necessary if the ground was super productive.
Furthermore, there are thorns and thistles on the earth today, and agriculture is extremely difficult task and basically a war against the thorns, thistles and bugs. If you have a garden you know what I mean.

yaw-saf'; a primitive root; to add or augment

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. to add, increase, do again
   1. (Qal) to add, increase, do again
   2. (Niphal)
      1. to join, join oneself to
      2. to be joined, be added to
   3. (Hiphil)
      1. to cause to add, increase
      2. to do more, do again

BTW, here is the full quote. Both the cursed ground AND the sorrow are here with us to this present day.

Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Oh not at all my friend. Just to be on the same page we will use your notes and research.

5750 in the blue letter bible gives these as definitions of how the word can be used.

עוֹד ʻôwd, ode; or עֹד ʻôd; from H5749; properly, iteration or continuance; used only adverbially (with or without preposition), again, repeatedly, still, more:—again, × all life long, at all, besides, but, else, further(-more), henceforth, (any) longer, (any) more(-over), × once, since, (be) still, when, (good, the) while (having being), (as, because, whether, while) yet (within).

It comes from 5749 with these definitions: ʻûwd, ood; a primitive root; to duplicate or repeat; by implication, to protest, testify (as by reiteration); intensively, to encompass, restore (as a sort of reduplication):—admonish, charge, earnestly, lift up, protest, call (take) to record, relieve, rob, solemnly, stand upright, testify, give warning, (bear, call to, give, take to) witness.

Strong's gives for a definition of 5749, Transliteration: uwd, Definition: to return, go about, repeat, do again.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5749.htm

From your research using the blue letter bible it says for biblical usage it says: I a going round, continuance.

II still, yet, again, besides

1. still, yet (of continuance or persistence)
2. still, yet, more (of addition or repetition)
3. again
4. still, moreover, besides

Gen 8:12
And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more. H5750

So it can be used and mean continue, any more, any longer. Which I pointed out how even the secular world recognizes there was a change in the production of food. As well as after the flood when does the bible use food or eating as a curse?

We have Thanksgiving coming up and part of the blessing and joy is what? Food, eating celebrating with food involved. Jewish holidays that the Lord gave them as a celebration and blessing again eating and food involved. Marriage supper of the Lamb. After the flood it is no longer a curse as God has lifted that curse or no longer continued it.

They produced so much food after the Lord brought them into the Promised land that he required that whatever they dropped to let it lay so that those without could pick it up. God required that they saved the corners of their fields to be harvested by the needy.

It is no longer a curse and God has made it now so that food is used in celebration, to honor such as when God visited Abraham's tent.

The worlds first super power Egypt. What made them as such their abundance of food. They were amongst the first that they could produce so much that they had a populace that could now excel in the sciences, math, construction, etc.

With the abundant production of food we were able to use ones labor for other advancements, hence the explosion of civilization. We read of nothing like this prior to the flood or does history record such. It is only after the flood or around 4000 B.C on the historical timeline do we start to see this. Reason being God had lifted or he no longer continued the curse as your own notes show that is a meaning of how the word can be used.

 

[CS1]

If many Christian men have also focused on Loving their wife as Christ Loves the church and gave himself for her as much as they follow women are to be silent in the church they would not have gone through a divorce which too is just as bad as women preachers.

 

[cv5]

Oh not at all my friend. Just to be on the same page we will use your notes and research.

5750 in the blue letter bible gives these as definitions of how the word can be used.

עוֹד ʻôwd, ode; or עֹד ʻôd; from H5749; properly, iteration or continuance; used only adverbially (with or without preposition), again, repeatedly, still, more:—again, × all life long, at all, besides, but, else, further(-more), henceforth, (any) longer, (any) more(-over), × once, since, (be) still, when, (good, the) while (having being), (as, because, whether, while) yet (within).

It comes from 5749 with these definitions: ʻûwd, ood; a primitive root; to duplicate or repeat; by implication, to protest, testify (as by reiteration); intensively, to encompass, restore (as a sort of reduplication):—admonish, charge, earnestly, lift up, protest, call (take) to record, relieve, rob, solemnly, stand upright, testify, give warning, (bear, call to, give, take to) witness.

Strong's gives for a definition of 5749, Transliteration: uwd, Definition: to return, go about, repeat, do again.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5749.htm

From your research using the blue letter bible it says for biblical usage it says: I a going round, continuance.

II still, yet, again, besides

1. still, yet (of continuance or persistence)
2. still, yet, more (of addition or repetition)
3. again
4. still, moreover, besides

Gen 8:12
And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more. H5750

So it can be used and mean continue, any more, any longer. Which I pointed out how even the secular world recognizes there was a change in the production of food. As well as after the flood when does the bible use food or eating as a curse?

We have Thanksgiving coming up and part of the blessing and joy is what? Food, eating celebrating with food involved. Jewish holidays that the Lord gave them as a celebration and blessing again eating and food involved. Marriage supper of the Lamb. After the flood it is no longer a curse as God has lifted that curse or no longer continued it.

They produced so much food after the Lord brought them into the Promised land that he required that whatever they dropped to let it lay so that those without could pick it up. God required that they saved the corners of their fields to be harvested by the needy.

It is no longer a curse and God has made it now so that food is used in celebration, to honor such as when God visited Abraham's tent.

The worlds first super power Egypt. What made them as such their abundance of food. They were amongst the first that they could produce so much that they had a populace that could now excel in the sciences, math, construction, etc.

With the abundant production of food we were able to use ones labor for other advancements, hence the explosion of civilization. We read of nothing like this prior to the flood or does history record such. It is only after the flood or around 4000 B.C on the historical timeline do we start to see this. Reason being God had lifted or he no longer continued the curse as your own notes show that is a meaning of how the word can be used.

The curses only begin to be reversed after the Second Coming.

Furthermore this theory of yours is going to be short-circuited by the rapture and tribulation.
The end of the age is on the very threshold.