There will be no Rapture!!!

[cv5]

Because he wasn't deceived. He knew eating led to death.

Evidently you are confused.

Cameron143 said:
But I disagree that his motivation was selfless in partaking of the fruit.

 

[Aaron56]

The operative, spiritual judgment of Adam and Eve was that they were “one flesh”. This superseded the physical evidence that they were two separate people.

Because of this, that God saw them as “one flesh”, had Adam not eaten the fruit he would have redeemed Eve by his faithfulness to God. God, by His own judgment, could not have removed Eve and kept Adam whole. By remaining true to God Adam would have become the Lord of all.

 

[posthuman]

Adam did not possess eternal life before sinning. As God's representative for the human race, he could only attain it by not sinning. He couldn't become sin for her.

before Adam sinned, there was no death in him, because death only enters through sin.
so Adam did have eternal life - it wasn't something he had to 'attain' - but something he lost when he added death to himself by sin.

Romans 5:12​

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned​

​

this isn't the same as the eternal life given to him, and to us through Christ, because we now have sin atoned for.
Adam had life without sin, and the freedom to reject it. after he sinned, we all have death with sin, and the freedom to receive life through the promise of God, the finished redemptive work of the Son.

 

[posthuman]

She was part of the human race he was representing.

the second Adam redeemed us

 

[Cameron143]

before Adam sinned, there was no death in him, because death only enters through sin.
so Adam did have eternal life - it wasn't something he had to 'attain' - but something he lost when he added death to himself by sin.

Romans 5:12​

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned​

​

this isn't the same as the eternal life given to him, and to us through Christ, because we now have sin atoned for.
Adam had life without sin, and the freedom to reject it. after he sinned, we all have death with sin, and the freedom to receive life through the promise of God, the finished redemptive work of the Son.

Adam, like Christ, was under a works covenant. In order to receive eternal life, he would have to fulfill all righteousness. He would have to be the end of righteousness for his lone law.
Also, eternal life is less than eternal life if it can be lost.

 

[Cameron143]

the second Adam redeemed us

Because the first Adam failed.

 

[cv5]

God, by His own judgment, could not have removed Eve and kept Adam whole.

It was Adam, who decided to join the Woman in sin. By an act of his own free will and no other.
God had nothing to do with it.

 

[cv5]

Adam, like Christ, was under a works covenant.

I think not.
Adam was not laboring to keep anything. Or earn anything. Or pay for anything.
Nor was Adam expecting, requiring or demanding doggie treats from some infinite cosmic vending machine by his works.

 

[Cameron143]

I think not.
Adam was not laboring to keep anything. Or earn anything. Or pay for anything.
Nor was Adam expecting, requiring or demanding doggie treats from some infinite cosmic vending machine by his works.

The fact that God gave him a commandment put him under the law.

 

[posthuman]

The fact that God gave him a commandment put him under the law.

if i warn you that this is poison, are you under a law against drinking it?

the apostle wrote saying 'be careful you don't bite and devour each other, or you will be consumed by each other!' - but we aren't under the law, or a covenant of works.

in any case God having warned Adam was prohibitive, not proscriptive. there wasn't anything he had to 'do' to have life - he was created with it: there was something he could choose to do, to have death. in this sense Adam was nothing like those under Moses.

 

[Cameron143]

if i warn you that this is poison, are you under a law against drinking it?

the apostle wrote saying 'be careful you don't bite and devour each other, or you will be consumed by each other!' - but we aren't under the law, or a covenant of works.

in any case God having warned Adam was prohibitive, not proscriptive. there wasn't anything he had to 'do' to have life - he was created with it: there was something he could choose to do, to have death. in this sense Adam was nothing like those under Moses.

And the LORD commanded the man....Genesis 2:16.
Yes it was prohibited, just like every other commandment that says...thou shalt not...
And every one of those are covenental.

If Adam is not in covenant with God, he cannot represent mankind.

 

[posthuman]

If Adam is not in covenant with God, he cannot represent mankind.

why not?
he was the only man that existed - was it possible he would not represent himself?

was there ever any doubt Christ would do everything He sent Himself to do?

 

[Cameron143]

why not?
he was the only man that existed - was it possible he would not represent himself?

was there ever any doubt Christ would do everything He sent Himself to do?

Do you believe the Father and Son were in covenant relationship?

We know from Romans 5 that he represented mankind.

 

[j55]

Ezekiel chapter 13.

Fly away doctrine.

The rapture is false doctrine. No rapture.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

There will be no pre or mid tribulation rapture.

Unless there IS ONE!!!! "Eschatology" = Rank Speculation. Nothing more.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Unless there IS ONE!!!! "Eschatology" = Rank Speculation. Nothing more.

You're so bold because you probably think you're so old that you won't ever get to see the antichrist be revealed - but what if you ARE still around when that happens?


🍄

 

[JJoseph]

There will be no pre or mid tribulation rapture. This is an invention of the dispensationalists. The Pre-Rapture was invented by the dispensationalist John Darby in the 19th century. It did not exist before that. Church history did not know a Pre-Rapture before the 19th century.

The Bible clearly states that Christians must go through the Tribulation, for Revelation 20:4 describes how Christians will be beheaded for their faith during the Tribulation. If there really was a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, then logically there would be no Christians in the Tribulation, but because there will be Christians in the Tribulation, that means there will be no Pre-Tribulation Rapture! Revelation 13:7 also declares that Christians will be given into the hand of the Antichrist, which means the Antichrist may overcome Christians and kill them.

Jesus will return only once and that is after the tribulation. Then he will gather all Christians.

Agreed. The real Biblical rapture is Post-Tribulation. It says so plainly in 1 Thess 4. Just read it. Believers will be caught up (1) only after the saints rise again and (2) the saints rise again on the last day (John 6:40). Therefore, the rapture happens only at the end of time.

"13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. "