The GAP Theory

glf · Oct 3, 2024

cv5 said:

Heb 1: 5-7
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1: 13, 14
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Angels have never been called sons and daughters of the Lord. Those titles are reserved for mankind...

cv5 · Oct 3, 2024

Genez said:

No, it is not speculation.... Genesis 1:2 in the Hebrew indicates utter destruction.

So much so, that Jeremiah cited Genesis 1:2 (in the Hebrew) to slam the disobedient rebellious Jews to show them how badly God was going to destroy their nation.

Jeremiah 4:23 is the same Hebrew as Genesis 1:2.

And, take a look! Because the Jews understood Hebrew, and understood the utter destruction found in Genesis 1:2?
Jeremiah in verse 27 had to soften it up a bit.... and tell them, in their case, they will not face utter destruction..

Young earthers typically never get that shown to them.

Here it is....

Jeremiah 4:22-27

22 “For my people are foolish,

they have not known me.

They are foolish children,

and they do not have insight.

They are skillful at doing evil,

and they do not know how to do good.”

23 I looked at the earth, and behold, it was wasteland and emptiness,

and to the heavens, and they were without their light. (Gen 1:2!)

24 I looked at the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,

and all of the hills were jolted to and fro.

25 I looked and behold, there was no person,

and all of the birds of the sky had fled.

26 I looked and behold, the fruitful land was a desert,

and all of its cities were ruined before Yahweh,

before the face of his burning anger.

27 For thus says Yahweh, “All of the land will be a desolation,

yet I will not make a complete desolation. (like Genesis 1:2 spoke of!)

There we have it!

Agree those passages definitely and intentionally refer to Genesis 1:2.
No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Also agree with your interpretation of verse 27.

glf · Oct 3, 2024

daisyseesthesun said:

I always think of the Lord to be everywhere present and nowhere absent, and also, every-when present and no-when absent...

glf · Oct 3, 2024

DavyP said:

Lucifer's boast of Isaiah 14, which God is using against him, is about Lucifer's original claim that he would sit on GOD's Throne.

Isa 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
KJV

Lucifer's rebellion in that old world which God destroyed involved a previous 'beast' kingdom...

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

That 'beast' kingdom above is not... the one shown later in Revelation 13. That above beast kingdom happened when Lucifer first drew those one third of stars (angels) to earth, at his original first rebellion of old. Notice the number of 'crowns' are different, that one of old had only 7 crowns. The one in Rev.13:1 for the end of this world is to have 10 crowns.

What Lord Jesus is showing us with the above Scripture is a reference to those "nations" under Lucifer before he rebelled, in the old world before Adam and Eve. Those who struggle with this simply do not know about that "world that then was" of 2 Peter 3, and instead follow men's traditions instead of keeping what God's Word shows about this.

Thusly, is Revelation 13 when speaking of the beast that is to have ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns mean a literal beast kingdom over this earth at the end? Yes. The first beast of Rev.13:1 is a beast kingdom. But the Rev.13:11 "another beast", is about the concept of a 'beast king', like what is covered in Revelation 17. Will that Rev.13:1 beast kingdom involve nations on this earth? Yes, which is what the Rev.13:4-8 Scripture specifically points to. And the 'great city' Rev.17 points to that is over it all, i.e., the beast kingdom headquarters for the end, is Jerusalem. That is revealed at the end of Rev.17:18 and at Rev.11:8 of where Lord Jesus Christ was crucified.

Rev.9:11 reveals that Satan is the 'king' over the bottomless pit. Might he have been a type of king over those Rev.12:3 beast nations? Possibly, but that's really only speculation. The important matter is to mark what God said about Lucifer wanting to be The KING, sitting in GOD's Throne. This is what today's world is being prepared for with the future Rev.13:1 beast kingdom. God is going to allow Satan to come to our present world and sit upon the throne in Jerusalem in place of Christ (2 Thess.2).

As I said before on this thread, knowing about that old world before Lucifer rebelled in coveting God's Throne is not a Salvation issue. Yet knowing about it can help explain many things written in God's Word.

Is 14: 18-20
All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Here we see that the evil one was a mortal who was kicked out of his grave to be a disembodied spirit, held in chains of darkness. He will be cast into a bottomless pit during Jesus' millennial reign and then cast into the lake of fire at the Lord's great white throne judgement, forevermore...

cv5 · Oct 3, 2024

glf said:

Adam knew exactly what he was doing. Precisely what he was doing.
And so did Jesus Christ of Whom he is a type.

Both were taking responsibility for the sin of their wives by willingly dying for their sake.

Genez · Oct 3, 2024

cv5 said:

Satan studies his potential victims to find the areas of weakness before tempting them .

Satan was watching while the Lord would teach Adam and the woman in the Garden.
I would assume that the woman and Adam were both enthralled with the Lord.
And, possibly Adam felt a sense of inadequacy for himself when he saw how Eve adored the Lord's superior mind.

One pastor I learn from exegeted the Hebrew.
Much to my surprise, he taught that when Adam ate? He munched and ate with gusto.
I used to wonder why that was so.

Well... When Adam heard that the fruit would make him to be like the Lord?
Adam who craved to be like the Lord, when he ate, he was not just eating to get food!
Adam wanted very much to become like the Lord.
In a way it was a noble desire. But, naïve.
And, required disobedience to fulfill it.

“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will
be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Once his resistance broke down, Adam jumped on the idea!

The rest is history.

Kroogz · Oct 3, 2024

glf said:

No question about it.

And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a wrongdoer.

cv5 · Oct 3, 2024

cv5 said:

Both were taking responsibility for the sin of their BRIDES by willingly dying for their sake.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 3, 2024

Genez said:

Pure SPECULATION. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. How in the world can anyone imagine that "without form" means "destruction"? On the face of it, and based upon all biblical evidence regarding creation, it simply means "formless".

Having no defined form. And that is exactly how this present globe was. A massive "lump of clay" if you will. When a sculptor begins a sculpture, that is exactly how his clay it. Without form, which means he will work on it to create a well-defined sculpture.

As to "void" it simply means "empty", which makes perfect sense. No living thing was on the earth at that time.

So just abandon all your speculations, and go back to Bible truth. Leave the foolishness to others.

glf · Oct 3, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

Pure SPECULATION. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. How in the world can anyone imagine that "without form" means "destruction"? On the face of it, and based upon all biblical evidence regarding creation, it simply means "formless".

Having no defined form. And that is exactly how this present globe was. A massive "lump of clay" if you will. When a sculptor begins a sculpture, that is exactly how his clay it. Without form, which means he will work on it to create a well-defined sculpture.

As to "void" it simply means "empty", which makes perfect sense. No living thing was on the earth at that time.

So just abandon all your speculations, and go back to Bible truth. Leave the foolishness to others.

The Hebrew word for was is the same word for became...

Genez · Oct 3, 2024

Nehemiah6 said:

Pure SPECULATION. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. How in the world can anyone imagine that "without form" means "destruction"? On the face of it, and based upon all biblical evidence regarding creation, it simply means "formless".

Having no defined form. And that is exactly how this present globe was. A massive "lump of clay" if you will. When a sculptor begins a sculpture, that is exactly how his clay it. Without form, which means he will work on it to create a well-defined sculpture.

As to "void" it simply means "empty", which makes perfect sense. No living thing was on the earth at that time.

So just abandon all your speculations, and go back to Bible truth. Leave the foolishness to others.

That's a rather generic translation that had become a traditional way of rendering Genesis 1:2.

Stay where you are...

cv5 · Oct 4, 2024

Genez said:

I stridently disagree. Sinful desire had NOTHING to do with Adam eating. Only the woman was tempted by this sinful desire.
Not Adam and never Adam even after what must have been many attempts by Satan.

Adam always only loved his God. Unlike Satan who grew to hate his God.

And at the trial, God honors Adams sacrifice, and Adam honors Eve's confession.

From an earlier post:

==============================================================================================
"Adam sweat great drops of blood in the garden agonizing over his deliberate (NOT DECEIVED per 1 Tim 2:14) FREE WILL choice to be SEPARATED (aka ***die***) from his God in a calculated gambit to SAVE his bride the Woman.

Which of course is why Adam is a type of Christ."
================================================================================================
"Adam did not keel over when he ate the fruit. But he did willingly decide to DIE aka SEPARATE from his God to save the woman.

The first Adam in the first garden sweat great drops of blood (in effect) agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming a sinner) to take responsibility of the sin of his bride to save his bride.

The last Adam in the olive garden sweat great drops of blood agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming sin for us) to take responsibility of the sin of His Bride to save His Bride."

Genez · Oct 4, 2024

cv5 said:

I stridently disagree. Sinful desire had NOTHING to do with Adam eating. Only the woman was tempted by this sinful desire.
Not Adam and never Adam even after what must have been many attempts by Satan.

Adam always only loved his God. Unlike Satan who grew to hate his God.

And at the trial, God honors Adams sacrifice, and Adam honors Eve's confession.

From an earlier post:

==============================================================================================
"Adam sweat great drops of blood in the garden agonizing over his deliberate (NOT DECEIVED per 1 Tim 2:14) FREE WILL choice to be SEPARATED (aka ***die***) from his God in a calculated gambit to SAVE his bride the Woman.

Which of course is why Adam is a type of Christ."
================================================================================================
"Adam did not keel over when he ate the fruit. But he did willingly decide to DIE aka SEPARATE from his God to save the woman.

The first Adam in the first garden sweat great drops of blood (in effect) agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming a sinner) to take responsibility of the sin of his bride to save his bride.

The last Adam in the olive garden sweat great drops of blood agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming sin for us) to take responsibility of the sin of His Bride to save His Bride."

It was not a sinful desire.
I did say it was naive.
It was his disobedience which was sinful.

Don't you ever wish you could be like Jesus? Is that sinful?????

I know what I said... unless there was a typo.

cv5 · Oct 4, 2024

Genez said:

This part of your post here....
Not so.

"Well... When Adam heard that the fruit would make him to be like the Lord?
Adam who craved to be like the Lord, when he ate, he was not just eating to get food!
Adam wanted very much to become like the Lord. "

It is Satan who lusted and had sinful desire. Definitely not Adam.
Frankly, if Adam DID have the same sin of Satan for the same reasons, we would all be doomed.

Genez · Oct 4, 2024

cv5 said:

Not making sense yet.

For whom the Lord loves He chastens,

And scourges every son whom He receives.” Heb 12:6

All angels were at one time sons of God.

Satan's desire alone is not what doomed him.

It was his constant refusal to repent after God punished him that doomed him.
He refused to repent, like Pharaoh refused after being given many signs....
Satan after being disciplined a number of times, finally cursed the Lord to His face.
That is why Satan made cursing the Lord to His face an issue with Job!

Incontrast?

Adam repented instantly...

That is why the Lord immediately provided shed blood of an animal to provide Adam and Eve animal skins to cover themselves with.

......

cv5 · Oct 4, 2024

Genez said:

For Satan it is both. Agree.

But in Adams case, it was neither. Adam had no sinful desire. He sinned not being deceived, and he repented ASAP.

Something else: Adam also protected and surely PREVENTED the woman from eating from the tree of life, while refusing to eat himself as well. A point that is extremely important, because if they ate they would be unredeemable. Just like those who take the mark of the beast!

=================================================================================

Jesus is ALWAYS offering Satan the legit opportunity to repent. But he will not and never will.
Eventually Satan (and unredeemed men and fallen angels) are SEPARATED forever in the lake of fire.....and its OVER.
Forever. No more chance at repentance.

For the saved, no more darkness, no more evil. Its gone forever and never will return in the new creation.

Jhn 13:26
Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.

Jhn 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Jesus in good faith give the sop of honor and fellowship to Judas-Satan. In a "last-ditch" gesture of love and offer of repentance.
Jesus God and Satan were quite literally communicating, thought the rest of the disciples had NO IDEA.

Genez · Oct 4, 2024

cv5 said:

Unlike Satan, Adam did not want to replace the Lord as Satan did... Big difference.

Adam simply admired the Lord and wanted to be like Him.
Satan thought he could REPLACE the Lord, and do a better job.

Got to get the distinction of those notions fine tuned, or you will keep blurring Adam for having the same sin as Satan.
Adam's sin was disobedience. There was nothing wrong with wanting to be like the Lord.

Clayman · Oct 5, 2024

Kroogz said:

You say Satan had dominion over the previous earth, could you expand upon this, was there animals, plants? dinosaurs that Satan ruled over in the first creation? Also why was there no consequence, If Satan mucked up the first creation to the point it needed remade and started again, then is it not a weird to have him in the refurbished creation?

Genez · Oct 5, 2024

Clayman said:

Our creation? It's a setting for a hearing.

We are in a courtroom hearing concerning the judgment of Satan.
In this hearing we are to live our own lives with many totally unaware of what is taking place.
Only those who mature in Bible doctrine will know what we are up against.

Why do you think Satan was allowed to ask permission to go after Job?
And, permission was granted!

It was for evidence that Satan would use to vindicate himself, to prove God's judgment of him as unfair and unjust.

We got to get out of the Sunday school mentality of happy happy happy if we are ever to glorify Christ with knowledge
and having a proper application = wisdom and insight.

cv5 · Oct 5, 2024

Genez said:

Pretty much agree. This would include both holy and fallen angels.

1Co 4:9
For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.

The GAP Theory

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