Gods will vs mans free will

[Kroogz]

Anybody can look and see that you were responding to posts from me.

And one more time, I was not straying from my original point.

God bless sister.

 

[phil36]

Your question is loaded with presupposition.



It is His amazing Grace, He would never act ungracious, you have it backwards.

Don't fool yourself, we all have presuppositions. But which are more aligned to scripture is the question.

Your right God is never anything but gracious. He's is love, He is Holy Holy Holy, and He is Just. In fact he is just in all his decrees and actions.. Apparently some don't like that part

So really its back to what i said earlier.

Would you say that God is unjust or to pass over his enemies while he shows mercy to those whom from all eternity he has devided to save? For it is by sheer amazing grace that God would choose to save any at all, we all deserve to be passed over and face the consequences of our sin and rebellion against our creator.

Or would you say man has the deciding factor by his own will? I will choose if i will make Christs atonement effective in my life?

 

[HeIsHere]

No.....thats what YOU have said. And you know what I'm gonna do?
Find that old post of yours and paste it. So that everyone can see it for themselves.

I knew it would need to happen eventually. Hope to get to that little job tonight.

It was in this thread #782

You never stated God was a rapist, your point was they/the other side of the argument made God be like a rapist with their position regarding Mary and her consent.

 

[HeIsHere]

Don't fool yourself, we all have presuppositions. But which are more aligned to scripture is the question.

Your right God is never anything but gracious. He's is love, He is Holy Holy Holy, and He is Just. In fact he is just in all his decrees and actions.. Apparently some don't like that part

So really its back to what i said earlier.

Would you say that God is unjust or to pass over his enemies while he shows mercy to those whom from all eternity he has devided to save? For it is by sheer amazing grace that God would choose to save any at all, we all deserve to be passed over and face the consequences of our sin and rebellion against our creator.

Or would you say man has the deciding factor by his own will? I will choose if i will make Christs atonement effective in my life?

Since I am not a Calvinist my presuppositions are far less of this I am quite sure.

Define enemy?

 

[Magenta]

Oh its worse than that.

According to @Cameron143 and @Magenta ,
-God's offer of repentance is fraudulent
-repentance never actually occurs
-the repenters are the victim of an hoax and have actually been kidnapped
-the kidnap victims are headed to a shotgun wedding far beyond their choice or control
-those that God does NOT kidnap are the losers in the VIP kidnapping lottery
-these losers were created by God and then purposely abandoned, so that they will spend eternity in the lake of fire

In other words, they think that Holy God is a scheming tyrant, unjust judge, kidnapper with wholly nefarious attributes.

Here is one of the disgusting lying posts from cv5 misrepresenting what I and another believe.

It is one of many.

 

[Magenta]

It was in this thread #782

You never stated God was a rapist, your point was they/the other side of the argument made God be like a rapist with their position regarding Mary and her consent.

Mary was not asked to/for consent but cv5 refuses to be honest.

And you should very know very well his lies went way beyond that one post.

You even liked what he said about God kidnapping people against their will.

Whereas he is lying to say it is what I and Cameron believe, but that means
nothing to you. You applaud his lies regardless because you lack integrity.

 

[cv5]

He also says God is a rapist and kidnaps people against their will, being a tyrant,

And there we go. YOU did in fact say that Mary was VIOLATED against her will.....without her permission!

Aug 10, 2023
#777
Mary was not asked permission any way you look at it.

=====================================================================

Aug 10, 2023
#779
cv5 said:
False. Mary definitely gave permission. Free will is THE primary mandate that God bequeathed to man.
The fundamental lie of Satan is that God is evil because this free will does not exist.

@Magenta said:
Mary was not asked permission no matter how hard you try to twist the text to make it say what you want .

==========================================================================

https://christianchat.com/threads/i...d-is-about-6000-years-old.211443/post-5131174

@cv5 said:
Did Holy God violate the free will of Mary and impose upon her His will without consent? In effect a case of raping a virgin?

Yes or no?

Hiding behind a smokescreen of psycho-bafflegab will just not do in this case.

My resolute position is that Mary gave consent of course.

 

[daisyseesthesun]

And there we go. YOU did in fact say that Mary was VIOLATED against her will.....without her permission!

Aug 10, 2023
#777
Mary was not asked permission any way you look at it.

=====================================================================

Aug 10, 2023
#779
cv5 said:
False. Mary definitely gave permission. Free will is THE primary mandate that God bequeathed to man.
The fundamental lie of Satan is that God is evil because this free will does not exist.

@Magenta said:
Mary was not asked permission no matter how hard you try to twist the text to make it say what you want .

==========================================================================

https://christianchat.com/threads/i...d-is-about-6000-years-old.211443/post-5131174

@cv5 said:
Did Holy God violate the free will of Mary and impose upon her His will without consent? In effect a case of raping a virgin?

Yes or no?

Hiding behind a smokescreen of psycho-bafflegab will just not do in this case.

My resolute position is that Mary gave consent of course.

she was never asked she was told ---- Your in the wrong cv5

"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus."

 

[Kroogz]

And there we go. YOU did in fact say that Mary was VIOLATED against her will.....without her permission!

Aug 10, 2023
#777
Mary was not asked permission any way you look at it.

=====================================================================

Aug 10, 2023
#779
cv5 said:
False. Mary definitely gave permission. Free will is THE primary mandate that God bequeathed to man.
The fundamental lie of Satan is that God is evil because this free will does not exist.

@Magenta said:
Mary was not asked permission no matter how hard you try to twist the text to make it say what you want .

==========================================================================

https://christianchat.com/threads/i...d-is-about-6000-years-old.211443/post-5131174

@cv5 said:
Did Holy God violate the free will of Mary and impose upon her His will without consent? In effect a case of raping a virgin?

Yes or no?

Hiding behind a smokescreen of psycho-bafflegab will just not do in this case.

My resolute position is that Mary gave consent of course.

Wow.

 

[Magenta]

And there we go. YOU did in fact say that Mary was VIOLATED against her will.....without her permission!

Nope. I plainly said that is your claim. You have said it many times, now.

The truth of the matter, not that you are interested, is that Mary was informed.

It is your view that somehow that makes God the wicked things you claim others believe when I have said no such thing.
Nor has Cameron. But you can't help yourself, can you? You must lie and misrepresent others because that is your desire.

I realize you hate this fact about as much as you hate admitting the truth.

 

[daisyseesthesun]

that doesn't mean Mary didn't want to be the mother of Christ she probably did, but it was not her will but Gods that matter

 

[Magenta]

that doesn't mean Mary didn't want to be the mother of Christ she probably did, but it was not her will but Gods that matter

Mary definitely consented. How anyone turns that into rape? Well, it's just dishonest.

The dishonesty is compounded to claim it is what others believe. cv5 is a liar.

 

[phil36]

Since I am not a Calvinist my presuppositions are far less of this I am quite sure.

Define enemy?

Don't worry you will have as many presuppositions as anyone else. We can easily deceive ourselves.

Enemy -

For behold, your enemies, O LORD, for behold, your enemies shall perish; all evildoers shall be s scattered. Psalm 92:9

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:7

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs Rom 11:28.

For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. Philippian 3:18f

And the list goes on. I am refering here to the human enemy those who are not saved. But there are other enemies Satan etc even death itself.

The good thing is, as John reminds us:

For God so loved the world, 9 that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world m to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:16ff.

And while wenwerenyet still enemies, christ dies for us.. The us being those in christ.

 

[cv5]

Mary definitely consented. How anyone turns that into rape? Well, it's just dishonest.

The dishonesty is compounded to claim it is what others believe. cv5 is a liar.

You have literally been caught RED HANDED lady. And now what is your reaction?
DENY IT. And then somehow desperately try and blame ME.

So here it is again. Let the board judge who is lying who is telling the truth.

===============================================================================================

And there we go. YOU did in fact say that Mary was VIOLATED against her will.....without her permission!

Aug 10, 2023
#777
Mary was not asked permission any way you look at it.

=====================================================================

Aug 10, 2023
#779
cv5 said:
False. Mary definitely gave permission. Free will is THE primary mandate that God bequeathed to man.
The fundamental lie of Satan is that God is evil because this free will does not exist.

@Magenta said:
Mary was not asked permission no matter how hard you try to twist the text to make it say what you want .

==========================================================================

https://christianchat.com/threads/i...d-is-about-6000-years-old.211443/post-5131174

@cv5 said:
Did Holy God violate the free will of Mary and impose upon her His will without consent? In effect a case of raping a virgin?

Yes or no?

Hiding behind a smokescreen of psycho-bafflegab will just not do in this case.

My resolute position is that Mary gave consent of course.

 

[Kroogz]

she was never asked she was told ---- Your in the wrong cv5

"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus."

"cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be." This is her CHOOSING. This is her pondering the whole dialog with the angel.

Kept pondering (1260)(dialogizomai from dia = intensifies meaning + logizomai - to reason, reckon, consider. Related to our English word "dialogue" a conversation between two or more people) means to consider, reason or reckon thoroughly, to think through, to deliberate by reflection. "To bring together different reasons." (Vine) To hold a discussion. To take full account of, to stop to consider, to distinguish between.

 

[cv5]

Here is one of the disgusting lying posts from cv5 misrepresenting what I and another believe.

It is one of many.

Despite your denials, desperate dodging and odious rancor, the guilty party is YOU!
And I am correct of course.

@Magenta said:
Mary was not asked permission no matter how hard you try to twist the text to make it say what you want .

Luk 1:38
And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

=============================================================================================

@cv5 said:
Did Holy God violate the free will of Mary and impose upon her His will without consent? In effect a case of raping a virgin?

Yes or no?

Hiding behind a smokescreen of psycho-bafflegab will just not do in this case.

My resolute position is that Mary gave consent of course.

 

[Magenta]

"cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be." This is her CHOOSING. This is her pondering the whole dialog with the angel.

Kept pondering (1260)(dialogizomai from dia = intensifies meaning + logizomai - to reason, reckon, consider. Related to our English word "dialogue" a conversation between two or more people) means to consider, reason or reckon thoroughly, to think through, to deliberate by reflection. "To bring together different reasons." (Vine) To hold a discussion. To take full account of, to stop to consider, to distinguish between.

Are you arguing against Scripture again?

 

[cv5]

she was never asked she was told ---- Your in the wrong cv5

"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus."

What in the world is wrong with everyone? The offer was made, THEN permission was GRANTED.
A FREE WILL DECISION without coercion, force or threat. In other words, fully informed consent.

Luk 1:38
And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

 

[Magenta]

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:7

He is has said that this "mind of the flesh" applies only to believers and not to the natural man. I wonder where people get such weird ideas.

 

[Kroogz]

Are you arguing against Scripture again?

No, just pointing out the FACT that Mary considered the whole dialog.Very carefully by the way. and she FREELY chose to obey.