Ryan Walters wants taxpayers to buy Bibles for Oklahoma classrooms

[Mem]

My main problem was that it was incredibly restricted to only a very few Bibles (mainly that just about the only eligible Bible was the Trump endorsed Bible, which he makes money off of and I don't agree with using the Bible for political gain), but we've moved on from that as I have said for the 3rd time now...Oklahoma amended that request. Now, the Bibles don't have to be so restricted to only those very few that were previously requested.

---

This issue can keep going around and around. One side is going to stick with their side and the other theirs. I've said what I said already about what I think about this issue.

Np, it was a weak attempt to triangulate your position on the issue in general, which I do not begrudge your every right to take whatever that may be. I will take that bibles are ok as long as they are not (just) the "Trump" bible, even though I don't know exactly what that is. To me, this sounds like great news progressing into great news, if it indeed is approved, regardless of who might think this is a stupid idea.

 

[ZNP]

Np, it was a weak attempt to triangulate your position on the issue in general, which I do not begrudge your every right to take whatever that may be. I will take that bibles are ok as long as they are not (just) the "Trump" bible, even though I don't know exactly what that is. To me, this sounds like great news progressing into great news, if it indeed is approved, regardless of who might think this is a stupid idea.

I agree that getting Bibles back into public school does sound like great news, but I suspect public education is doomed to failure. I think there is a variation on a homeschool where the homeschool operates out of the local church which will be the most successful model. With Khan academy, many excellent sites that teach a variety of subjects online, AI, and public libraries I would argue a home school can be far more successful than a public school and if 10% of the students did leave to be homeschooled the situation in the public schools would deteriorate to twice as bad as it is now.

 

[Mem]

I agree that getting Bibles back into public school does sound like great news, but I suspect public education is doomed to failure. I think there is a variation on a homeschool where the homeschool operates out of the local church which will be the most successful model. With Khan academy, many excellent sites that teach a variety of subjects online, AI, and public libraries I would argue a home school can be far more successful than a public school and if 10% of the students did leave to be homeschooled the situation in the public schools would deteriorate to twice as bad as it is now.

It isn't a coincidence that 'disciple' is the root of 'discipline,' and I suspect that is the primary reason for the failure in the system. It isn't easy to maintain a healthy balance, and everyone generally prefers the easy route.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Bibles were amongst the original textbooks in early American schools. And one of the reasons public education was begun was so young people could read the Bible.
Also, there is no separation of church and state in the US Constitution. The state is forbidden from involving itself in religion or imposing religious beliefs on citizens, but citizens are free to exercise their religion anywhere, anytime so long as they aren't imposing on the rights of others. It's not freedom of religion, but the free exercise of religion. There is a difference.

Exactly! Most of the colleges in the US wouldn't exist now if it weren't for Christianity. Or schools themselves for that matter. There has been a retelling of American history, and it is untrue, sadly Christians have fallen for it.

"American schools thus began with the Puritans in the 1600s to ensure Bible literacy. As expected, the Bible was the core of learning in schools. The New England Primer, the first reader in America, included Bible truths, stories, poems, hymns, and prayers. The Puritans founded many of the first colleges and universities in America—including Harvard, Yale, and Dartmouth—and they did so with a strong Christian purpose."

"For example, Harvard’s rules and precepts declared, “Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well that the main end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life, John 17:3, and therefore to lay Christ in the bottom as the only foundation of all knowledge and learning.” These and future schools shaped the leaders and thinkers of early America, including the Founding Fathers of the United States."

"The Puritans’ emphasis on education influenced the American public school system, widespread literacy, and the idea of an informed citizenry in America. This emphasis on literacy and education promoted strong religious convictions among colonists and led to the creation of the most literate, educated society in the world."


Why would we ever want to vote for that??

 

[Mem]

Why would we ever want to vote for that??

I found this antique dome-top trunk being offered on eBay for $65,000 obo.
If anyone found this in their attic, who wouldn't like it to be restored it to mint condition in order to fetch the premium value? And why is a sock drawer so much more valued than the ideals which provided the original owners of such trunks the resolve to accomplish such a feat as establishing a free nation where "all men are created equal" to which so many would venture to dream of immigrating? Why would anyone want to trade that so readily for a Chinese imitation?
Idk, I guess there must be truth in that old adage about familiarity. The Cambridge Dictionary explains the idiom familiarity breeds contempt as "used to say that if you know someone very well you stop respecting them because you have seen all of their bad qualities," yet its apparent that only the bad qualities have endured after scrapping those supposedly problematic ideals.

 

[MeowFlower]

Yes, I realize this is a Christian forum. What a hoot lol. I'm a Christian and I live in Oklahoma, and I do not agree with the use of the Bible for political gain. And personally, I don't want anything to do with a Trump endorsed Bible that he makes money off of. There are plenty of non-Trump endorsed Bibles we could use...and as I have said already more than once Oklahoma amended that request so we don't have to use the Trump endorsed Bible.

You can think what you want, doesn't mean I have to agree.

I like what Rob Miller, the Bixby Superintendent, said, "As a Christian myself, the idea of diminishing the word of God to a mere classroom prop is repulsive to me."

I think you are so anti-Trump fixated that you not only don't make sense in your rhetoric you also demonstrate an obstinacy against being educated on the facts.

Transgender literature is entering classrooms in our public schools.

Laws are being passed in some states that forbid teachers to inform a parent if their child is Transitioning while on campus. I E insists on being addressed using an opposite gender pronoun,changing their given name, etc...

Bibles in public schools are at least a resource that gives righteous moral instruction. As opposed to elementary school age kids being given Tommy the Tampon coloring books so to "learn" their little boy classmates may menstruate!

God says The Adversary to righteousness is let to be Lord of this world. Boy,is he ever active in Government tax payer funded public schools .


And given it is our tax dollars paying for those educators,we have a right to oppose perverse literature being bought and paid for with our money in order to warp through hardwiring of impressionable young minds that are in the custody of the perverse programmers for longer than those children are at home.

Trump is a businessman. If he makes money promoting perfume,sneakers, and even Lee Greenwoods Bible, God bless him.

I'll buy a Bible to support Lee Greenwood any day,when my tax dollars,without my permission, paid for books that promote Satanic fallen mental illness so to insist those psychiatric disorders are the new tolerable normal. Especially when Tranny activists admit public library story hours are where they intend as Tranny's dressed the part to "groom" the children of the future.


Someone gripes about Bibles as an option in schools and libraries in the face of that?

Too bad! Pick a side.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I think you are so anti-Trump fixated that you not only don't make sense in your rhetoric you also demonstrate an obstinacy against being educated on the facts.

Transgender literature is entering classrooms in our public schools.

Laws are being passed in some states that forbid teachers to inform a parent if their child is Transitioning while on campus. I E insists on being addressed using an opposite gender pronoun,changing their given name, etc...

Bibles in public schools are at least a resource that gives righteous moral instruction. As opposed to elementary school age kids being given Tommy the Tampon coloring books so to "learn" their little boy classmates may menstruate!

God says The Adversary to righteousness is let to be Lord of this world. Boy,is he ever active in Government tax payer funded public schools .


And given it is our tax dollars paying for those educators,we have a right to oppose perverse literature being bought and paid for with our money in order to warp through hardwiring of impressionable young minds that are in the custody of the perverse programmers for longer than those children are at home.

Trump is a businessman. If he makes money promoting perfume,sneakers, and even Lee Greenwoods Bible, God bless him.

I'll buy a Bible to support Lee Greenwood any day,when my tax dollars,without my permission, paid for books that promote Satanic fallen mental illness so to insist those psychiatric disorders are the new tolerable normal. Especially when Tranny activists admit public library story hours are where they intend as Tranny's dressed the part to "groom" the children of the future.


Someone gripes about Bibles as an option in schools and libraries in the face of that?

Too bad! Pick a side.

Sorry, emojis aren't working. Would have given a "winner" to this post if I could, well said!

 

[gb9]

I think you are so anti-Trump fixated that you not only don't make sense in your rhetoric you also demonstrate an obstinacy against being educated on the facts.

Transgender literature is entering classrooms in our public schools.

Laws are being passed in some states that forbid teachers to inform a parent if their child is Transitioning while on campus. I E insists on being addressed using an opposite gender pronoun,changing their given name, etc...

Bibles in public schools are at least a resource that gives righteous moral instruction. As opposed to elementary school age kids being given Tommy the Tampon coloring books so to "learn" their little boy classmates may menstruate!

God says The Adversary to righteousness is let to be Lord of this world. Boy,is he ever active in Government tax payer funded public schools .


And given it is our tax dollars paying for those educators,we have a right to oppose perverse literature being bought and paid for with our money in order to warp through hardwiring of impressionable young minds that are in the custody of the perverse programmers for longer than those children are at home.

Trump is a businessman. If he makes money promoting perfume,sneakers, and even Lee Greenwoods Bible, God bless him.

I'll buy a Bible to support Lee Greenwood any day,when my tax dollars,without my permission, paid for books that promote Satanic fallen mental illness so to insist those psychiatric disorders are the new tolerable normal. Especially when Tranny activists admit public library story hours are where they intend as Tranny's dressed the part to "groom" the children of the future.


Someone gripes about Bibles as an option in schools and libraries in the face of that?

Too bad! Pick a side.

2nd sentence-

they are not entering the schools, they are in.

 

[MeowFlower]

2nd sentence-

they are not entering the schools, they are in.

Yes, that is the process. They enter,they're in. They're not yet in all public schools however.

I'm waiting for a move by state or federal government to shut down parochial education.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I ran across this video which, I have to say, is pretty funny. Ryan Walters is all for religious liberty until it's actually put into practice. What he's for, which should be fairly obvious, is his brand of Christian nationalism and forcing out all other religions; not to mention other versions of Christianity that still believe in the separation of church and state.

The guy in the video is an atheist and some of his language some might find offensive. But in his evaluation of Walters he's spot on.

 

[ZNP]

I ran across this video which, I have to say, is pretty funny. Ryan Walters is all for religious liberty until it's actually put into practice. What he's for, which should be fairly obvious, is his brand of Christian nationalism and forcing out all other religions; not to mention other versions of Christianity that still believe in the separation of church and state.

The guy in the video is an atheist and some of his language some might find offensive. But in his evaluation of Walters he's spot on.

Calling something Satanic is not equivalent to calling it evil*. There is a reason that Satan is depicted as being a serpent just like Medusa. Classical Greek Mythology is considered to be stories about fallen angels from the Bible's point of view. Again, supporting the reference to being "Satanic". These are very ignorant people who are taking offense, Satan is not the name of an angel but means "enemy". These fallen angels like Medusa oppose the rule of Jesus Christ and therefore are "enemies" to the kingdom of the heaven.

What is spot on is how hypocritical and deceitful these people are. Anyone who has prayed in public using the name of Jesus Christ as Lord of all has suffered persecution for the last 2,000 years, particularly since they took prayer out of the schools. If a teacher were to pray in the name of Jesus Christ at a public assembly for the last 50 years they most likely would have been fired. We have had coaches suspended because they took a knee to pray before or after a football game.

So yes, from a Biblical point of view the prayer was Satanic and saying that it was Pagan is not some kind of contradiction to that. Second, complaining because people took issue with your prayer is the height of hypocrisy since the pagans have taken issue with all things Christian for the last fifty years.

*Satan is depicted of convincing Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil and if she would eat she would know Good and Evil. Satan is not focused exclusively on being evil, if he can get you to miss Jesus Christ by being good that is sufficient.


Also the video he provides did not have Ryan Walters

 

[ZNP]

I doubt RA has actually met Ryan Walters or listened to him. The idea that he is a champion for religious liberty is a twisting of what he really stands for. He is focused on schools in Oklahoma. He is putting Bibles into schools and provides undeniable justification for why the Bible should be in school libraries. He also argues that the Federal government has no right to say anything about whether or not Oklahoma puts Bibles into schools based on the US constitution.

That does not mean he is a champion of religious liberty. His point is simply they have a constitutional right to put Bibles into schools. Oklahoma was at the very bottom of the barrel when their schools were compared with other states so he decided they needed to make changes.

I listened to him speak at a large gathering to describe what he is doing. Never once did he even suggest he was a champion for paganism, Satanism, or witchcraft. There is no hypocrisy for him or anyone else who wants Bibles in public schools to take issue with someone invoking the name of Medusa to protect all the Satanists and pagans.

All that prayer proved is that we do have Pagans, Satanists and those involved in Wtichcraft in positions of power in Tulsa and everywhere else.

 

[ZNP]

So instead of talking about Ryan Walters who is not on this forum to defend himself and also since it is not given to Christians to be judging others I will talk about myself.

I am a member of Mom's for Liberty, an organization concerned about school policy. I was a teacher in NYC and I support Bibles in public schools. I believe that the US constitution prohibits the Federal government from making any law to establish or prohibit the exercise of a religion in the US and based on that I feel the Federal government has no say in whether or not Bibles are in public schools.

Does that mean I am a champion for freedom of religion? Of course not, it means that in the US there is freedom of religion and therefore I believe it applies to Christians and the Bible as much as it does to anyone else.

I heard the woman invoking the name of Medusa and saying that it is Satanic is a fair description in my opinion. That does not mean I think that what she did was illegal or should be banned. Instead I would shine the light on the fact that the people telling you that you can't have prayer in schools, can't have Bibles in schools and can't say the name of Jesus Christ, that these people are pagans involved in witchcraft and satanism. How foolish that Christians are letting Satanists, pagans and witches tell them what they can and cannot do.

 

[MeowFlower]

I ran across this video which, I have to say, is pretty funny. Ryan Walters is all for religious liberty until it's actually put into practice. What he's for, which should be fairly obvious, is his brand of Christian nationalism and forcing out all other religions; not to mention other versions of Christianity that still believe in the separation of church and state.

The guy in the video is an atheist and some of his language some might find offensive. But in his evaluation of Walters he's spot on.

A Liberal pod caster.

Clearly Christian Nationalism doesn't hold sway in Oklahoma or this pagan woman's invocation to Medusa would have never happened.

It's a curious thing. Freedom of religion is being defended while opposition to Christianity and free speech is being assailed under the false banner affiliation of Nationalism.

And one fear of this Christian Nationalist movement taking hold is the arrival of Bibles in public schools. The horror. What's next? The thought that children may be quietly praying during class?

In an environment where biological boys may violate girls privacy just by claiming to be female. Entering gym locker rooms/changing rooms ,showers,bathrooms, all girls sporting events.

Where books that describe in graphic detail homosexual sexual congress, in the name of inclusion and education in human sexuality. And coloring books are handed out that "teach" little boys are able to Menstruate because Tommy the Tampon says so.

But Bibles? In our tax payer funded Oklahoma public schools where we're already paying for all that other stuff to go on?

Oh Hell no!

That's the start of Christian Nationalism for sure.

Be on the lookout for jackboots next
It's only a matter of time people!

Heil Christos! *Lifts hands in prayer*

 

[Dude653]

How long before people start arguing over which version of the Bible they should be using if it's being read properly?

 

[ResidentAlien]

A victory for the Constitution.

 

[Dude653]

A Liberal pod caster.

Clearly Christian Nationalism doesn't hold sway in Oklahoma or this pagan woman's invocation to Medusa would have never happened.

It's a curious thing. Freedom of religion is being defended while opposition to Christianity and free speech is being assailed under the false banner affiliation of Nationalism.

And one fear of this Christian Nationalist movement taking hold is the arrival of Bibles in public schools. The horror. What's next? The thought that children may be quietly praying during class?

In an environment where biological boys may violate girls privacy just by claiming to be female. Entering gym locker rooms/changing rooms ,showers,bathrooms, all girls sporting events.

Where books that describe in graphic detail homosexual sexual congress, in the name of inclusion and education in human sexuality. And coloring books are handed out that "teach" little boys are able to Menstruate because Tommy the Tampon says so.

But Bibles? In our tax payer funded Oklahoma public schools where we're already paying for all that other stuff to go on?

Oh Hell no!

That's the start of Christian Nationalism for sure.

Be on the lookout for jackboots next
It's only a matter of time people!

Heil Christos! *Lifts hands in prayer*

View attachment 270610

I feel like the Bible should be taught at home for a few reasons.
For one. Christians can't agree on which translation to use, so that's probably going to cause problems
Second, if your Christian do you want someone else teaching your kids, the Bible and misinterpreting what it says, as Christians often can't agree on what the Bible says.
Also, I guarantee you there's going to be a massive poopy fit when Muslim students want the Quran in school too

 

[ResidentAlien]

They don't want to teach the Bible in schools. What they're trying to do is indoctrinate children into Christian nationalism. Ryan Walters says he wants to teach the Bible as part of American history. What seems pretty clear to me is he wants to introduce into the curriculums the idea that the US was founded as a Christian nation; that's the main reason he wants Bibles with the founding documents attached.

What I find the most amusing about this idea that the US was founded as a Christian nation is the fact that the settlers, whether they were fleeing Catholicism or the Church of England, were fleeing the oppression of CHRISTIANITY! Why would they go to all that trouble only to enslave themselves again to a government that had the power to impose their version of Christianity on everyone. It's ridiculous. The Constitution is clear, the state shall be out of the religion business.

 

[Dude653]

They don't want to teach the Bible in schools. What they're trying to do is indoctrinate children into Christian nationalism. Ryan Walters says he wants to teach the Bible as part of American history. What seems pretty clear to me is he wants to introduce into the curriculums the idea that the US was founded as a Christian nation; that's the main reason he wants Bibles with the founding documents attached.

What I find the most amusing about this idea that the US was founded as a Christian nation is the fact that the settlers, whether they were fleeing Catholicism or the Church of England, were fleeing the oppression of CHRISTIANITY! Why would they go to all that trouble only to enslave themselves again to a government that had the power to impose their version of Christianity on everyone. It's ridiculous. The Constitution is clear, the state shall be out of the religion business.

I wish every American would read the founding myth by Andrew Seidel.
It completely destroys The narrative that America was built on biblical principles
Christian nationalism is neither constitutional nor biblical.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say Christianity is to be enforced by law

 

[ResidentAlien]

I wish every American would read the founding myth by Andrew Seidel.
It completely destroys The narrative that America was built on biblical principles
Christian nationalism is neither constitutional nor biblical.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say Christianity is to be enforced by law

I haven't read that book, but from what I know, many of the founders were influenced by principles of morality from the Bible. But principles of morality are a long way from endorsing a certain religion.