The word of God is not a secret code that needs unlocked.

[Bible_Highlighter]

Here is the video from the KJV research council:

I don't believe a KJV update is possible in these last days, which is what Mark Ward was pushing for by this debate.
There are certain requirements I believe need to happen for a KJV update to happen in my book. But I believe that such a task will not happen for two reasons. One, there has been a lot of mistrust because of all of the the problems and deceptions employed by Modern Scholarship which began with Westcott and Hort. Second, we are living in the last days. Many in the realm of Christianity today are not like believers of the past. Scripture does warn that many will depart from the faith, and I believe we are living in those days. So we should be crazy and wildly careful of trusting anyone these days.

I think a better alternative is to helping people to understand the KJV is to have improved educational tools, and programs by various different KJV groups or churches. These tools should be rooted in trusted dictionaries, the Hebrew, Greek, context, and more. So in my humble opinion, a KJV update is not necessary. Many have tried and failed because they showed to be dishonest or unqualified about tackling such a major project.

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[Genez]

I looked at Biblehub and compared the top popular Modern Versions (NIV, ESV, CSB, NASB) with the KJV. How do you see these corrupted Alexandrian Modern Bibles as saying something better than the KJV?

The only difference I noticed was that some of these Modern Bibles say "loaves of bread."
How is that significant?
Are you trying to suggest that this verse is proof that all Modern Bibles basically say the same thing?
Some in the Modern Bible camp have actually did tell me such nonsense. In this case, I believe such individuals are living in an alternative universe who are simply ignoring the facts. I have shown 50 plus false doctrines in Modern Bibles. Then there are the changed truths, as well. All these changes are for the worse, and not for the better....

You said the following....

I believe the King James Bible is the perfect words of God in English.

If it's perfect?
Then it should perfectly say what the Greek says. Right?

Since the KJV is perfect, please tell us what was Satan's objective in Matthew 4:3?

​

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, ​

command that these stones be made bread. ​

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I believe that the KJV is a word for word interpretation of the original Greek translation. Most of the other bible translations are interpretations of what the translator thinks that the words are meaning. I'll take the KJV over those.

I believe the Pure Cambridge KJV edition (circa 1900) is the final and settled pure words of God in English today. But does the Hebrew and Greek offer a deeper and richer meaning at times? Absolutely! Words like "I AM" (a reflection of the triadic declaration) and "hell" (Gehenna, Hades, Tartaroo). have a deeper meaning in the original languages. It is not that the English is not correct by any means. But there is a depth of meaning that is not present with the English. I believe this was by design. But those who study the original languages, will of course know the deeper truth on such matters.


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[Bible_Highlighter]

You said the following....

I believe the King James Bible is the perfect words of God in English.

If it's perfect?
Then it should perfectly say what the Greek says. Right?

Since the KJV is perfect, please tell us what was Satan's objective in Matthew 4:3?

​

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, ​

command that these stones be made bread. ​

Before I even seen this post, I have just recently demonstrated that there are times where the Hebrew and Greek reveals a deeper layer of added meaning. Its not that the English is inaccurate by any means. It is still perfect and the inerrant words of God in English. Something that does not convey all the information is not imperfect. There were times Jesus did not give a reply to people. Does that make Him imperfect? No. Something is only imperfect if we see a known corruption or problem that can lead people away from God and His beautiful truths. There is no evidence that God preserving His words in English would do that. In fact, the opposite is true. The KJV has led to three of the great revivals in our history. The KJV helped to promote idioms that people in English speaking countries still speak today. The KJV has led to more good in English speaking countries in ways we cannot calculate. What has the Modern Bibles done? What has Modern Scholarship done that compares? Nothing.


...

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

You said the following....

I believe the King James Bible is the perfect words of God in English.

If it's perfect?
Then it should perfectly say what the Greek says. Right?

Since the KJV is perfect, please tell us what was Satan's objective in Matthew 4:3?

​

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, ​

command that these stones be made bread. ​

The problem we face is that those who reject the KJV more often than not are following corrupted Hebrew, and Greek manuscripts of some sort. They don't even realize that the texts they favor teach false doctrines even in the original language manuscripts they favor.
Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes are the Modern scholars of our day who want to keep people dumb and stupid while they hold all the keys of knowledge (Just like the Catholic church used to do by them preaching to their lay-people in Latin).


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[Genez]

Before I even seen this post, I have just recently demonstrated that there are times where the Hebrew and Greek reveals a deeper layer of added meaning. Its not that the English is inaccurate by any means. It is still perfect and the inerrant words of God in English. Something that does not convey all the information is not imperfect. There were times Jesus did not give a reply to people. Does that make Him imperfect? No. Something is only imperfect if we see a known corruption or problem that can lead people away from God and His beautiful truths. There is no evidence that God preserving His words in English would do that. In fact, the opposite is true. The KJV has led to three of the great revivals in our history. The KJV helped to promote idioms that people in English speaking countries still speak today. The KJV has led to more good in English speaking countries in ways we cannot calculate. What has the Modern Bibles done? What has Modern Scholarship done that compares? Nothing.


...

Therefore...

What you admitted to about the Greek? It reveals that the KJV is not always revealing the true meaning of God's Word.

And, besides... if you ventured to tell me what Matthew 4:3 means by reading it from the KJV? You would soon find out it's not the case at all.

The only true translation of God's Word is to be found by locating one of the few pastors who is capable of exegeting the Scriptures accurately from the Hebrew and Greek.

You are entitled to your opinion about the KJV. But, do not do so boastfully as so many KJV Only people do.
For if you could boast as you claim? You should be able to tell me what Matthew 4:3 means, without hesitation.

But, you can't tell me.

 

[Genez]

Before I even seen this post, I have just recently demonstrated that there are times where the Hebrew and Greek reveals a deeper layer of added meaning. Its not that the English is inaccurate by any means.
...

But the English as it stands in some passages would be totally misleading.

Wishful thinking, no matter how noble it may seem, is not a good thing when it comes to understanding God's Word.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Therefore...

What you admitted to about the Greek? It reveals that the KJV is not always revealing the true meaning of God's Word.

That is a misrepresentation to say, " the KJV is not always revealing the true meaning of God's Word."
The KJV reveals the true meaning in English and it is God's choice to do so. Yet, the Hebrew, and Greek are not hiding anywhere. One can also look up the original languages, as well.

=YouAnd, besides... if you ventured to tell me what Matthew 4:3 means by reading it from the KJV? You would soon find out it's not the case at all.

The verse is pretty straight forward in what it says in the KJV and Modern Bibles.
Do you believe there is some hidden meaning in the Greek that say something radically different?
If so, I am not into playing those kind of silly games where one believes the Hebrew and Greek corrects our English Bible (the KJV).
If you are suggesting such nonsense, you can hang it up because most likely you do not speak, write, hear, and read Hebrew and Greek fluently like the natives of those respective countries do. You would only be a pretender at best.

The only true translation of God's Word is to be found by locating one of the few pastors who is capable of exegeting the Scriptures accurately from the Hebrew and Greek.

Sorry. We simply do not trust Modern Scholarship (i.e., the Critical Text Camp) in knowing how to understand Hebrew and Greek. Let alone there is the underlying texts you favor that is utter garbage because they teach false doctrines. But beginning with Westcott and Hort, they started to change the meaning on certain Greek words like monogenes, and spoudazō. No educated Greek person living in Greece today would give their understanding any kind of credence.

You are entitled to your opinion about the KJV. But, do not do so boastfully as so many KJV Only people do.
For if you could boast as you claim? You should be able to tell me what Matthew 4:3 means, without hesitation.

It means what it says plainly. It is not like some symbolic verse in Revelation.

But, you can't tell me.

Sure, it says, "And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread." (Matthew 4:3).

Meaning, it is saying that when Satan came to Jesus, he tested Jesus to see if He was the Son of God. As a part of this test to see if He was indeed the Son of God, the devil commanded of Jesus that the stones be turned into bread so that Jesus could eat. Of course, we learn in the next verse words by our Lord Jesus that refutes your false belief.

Jesus says, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4).

Meaning, how can you live by every word of God if you don't have them precisely or perfectly?

How else would understand Matthew 4:3-4? Are you going to enlighten me with your mighty power of Greek knowledge to say it is talking about ninja zombie cyborgs from outer space coming to eat all our dogs on the planet?


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[montana123]

I do not belive the word of God is a secret code that has to be figured out, unlocked or decoded.
God is not a god of mystery, he is not a god of confusion.
He does not hide from us, but shows himself openly. He is like the morning star.
He's word is ment to be easy to understand.

I know Jesus talked in parables to people, but Jesus said this was done to fullfill prophecy.

I do not beleive you have to attend a University to learn the meaning behind God's word. I believe you just have to reach out and take the KJV, and read it.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

We do not any person to teach us but the Spirit will teach us and God gives wisdom to whoever asks for it so the preacher does not get to know more than the common pew sitter.

When they tell you the word of God search the scriptures to see if it is the truth so we are to read the Bible on our own to make sure it is the truth.

That means it is openly plain to see and not hidden messages as some people believe.

Oh every 10th letter reveals a hidden message or whatever they say but all is plain to see.

Jesus spoke in parables so only the spiritually hungry could understand which Jesus revealed it to the disciples and the Spirit reveals it to us but it is still plain to see.

Like the Bible says the natural man does not know the things of God neither can he know them for he is spiritually discerned.

The Spirit will guide us in to all truth and we do not need a person to teach us but the Spirit will teach us.

The thing with Bible school is they probably cannot teach at their Church unless they learn there but a person does not need it to understand the Bible.

If everybody read the Bible led by the Spirit and did not go to a denomination there would be a lot less differences for they would see the truth instead of the blueprint of the denomination which we know they have differences.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

But there are many that do not allow the Spirit to lead them and never come to the truth, and love sin more than God which is why they are not led of the Spirit.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age christianity is why the world rebels against God so it is very important to speak out against their false interpretation of the Bible which they are the biggest threat to Christianity in the history of the Church but you hardly hear a peep from the Christians concerning that.

 

[MeowFlower]

2 Peter 3:16 (Peter, writing about Paul / Paul's writings) - "16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard-to-be-understood [G1425 - one word in Greek], which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."


-- of Paul's writings (which Peter includes as themselves being "scriptures") "[are] some things hard-to-be-understood"... Peter acknowledges.

-- https://biblehub.com/text/2_peter/3-16.htm

Exactly. Which is why Jesus tells us,the natural mind,man,cannot understand the things of God. They are foolishness to him.

Unless the Holy Spirit enters us this remains true. And that truth we see in this world every day.

 

[Dino246]

I looked at Biblehub and compared the top popular Modern Versions (NIV, ESV, CSB, NASB) with the KJV. How do you see these corrupted Alexandrian Modern Bibles as saying something better than the KJV?

The only difference I noticed was that some of these Modern Bibles say "loaves of bread."
How is that significant?
Are you trying to suggest that this verse is proof that all Modern Bibles basically say the same thing?
Some in the Modern Bible camp have actually did tell me such nonsense. In this case, I believe such individuals are living in an alternative universe who are simply ignoring the facts. I have shown 50 plus false doctrines in Modern Bibles. Then there are the changed truths, as well. All these changes are for the worse, and not for the better.


...

....

A verbose and insulting non-answer to a simple question.

 

[Dino246]

I believe that the KJV is a word for word interpretation of the original Greek translation.

You're certainly welcome to believe whatever you like, but your belief is not based in facts. Firstly, most of the Bible was not written in Greek originally. Secondly, it is well known among people who actually do their homework (instead of blindly believing what they're told) that it is impossible (not merely difficult) to translate either Greek or Hebrew into English "word for word" and have the result correctly structured and coherent.

Most of the other bible translations are interpretations of what the translator thinks that the words are meaning. I'll take the KJV over those.

All human translation of language is the translator's interpretations of what they think the original-language words mean in the target language. This is as true of the KJV as of any other translation work. Again, do your homework and don't waste time posting broad-brush criticisms of anything other than the KJV. They will be shot down and your hypocrisy will be exposed.

 

[Dino246]

The KJV has led to three of the great revivals in our history.

Why do you repeat such things when you have been told clearly that they aren’t true?

The KJV has done nothing by itself. People do things. God does things. Inanimate objects don’t.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

A verbose and insulting non-answer to a simple question.

Its a self explanatory verse. But I did later give the explanation in my own words (not that such a thing was necessary). Its like saying, a person says: "the dog jumped over the fence" and then another person asks me what it means. Its insulting to my intelligence to do such a thing, unless of course he believes the underlying Greek here says something radically different (Which is simply not the case).


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[Dino246]

So in my humble opinion, a KJV update is not necessary. Many have tried and failed because they showed to be dishonest or unqualified about tackling such a major project.

Who has tried and failed to update the KJV?

 

[Dino246]

The problem we face is that those who reject the KJV more often than not are following corrupted Hebrew, and Greek manuscripts of some sort.

One does not need anything more than a KJV to demonstrate conclusively that the KJV is not perfect. Only one error is enough. By your logic, because it is not perfect, it is not holy.

Of course, you won’t admit that it is erroneous because that would require integrity.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Why do you repeat such things when you have been told clearly that they aren’t true?

If you ask an AI search, "Did the KJV lead to three of the great revivals?", you'll find that scholars and historians confirm this as a fact. I was aware of this long before AI became known. When I requested sources, it provided reputable references, which you can verify yourself by using ChatGPT 4.0 or similar tools. This is not a myth; it is documented by historians and scholars, unless, of course, you’re set on ignoring established history without substantial counter-evidence.

The KJV has done nothing by itself. People do things. God does things. Inanimate objects don’t.

When I say the KJV 'led to' revivals, I’m using a figure of speech called personification. It’s a common way people communicate by giving an active role to something that isn’t alive. This expresses how impactful the KJV has been, even though it’s ultimately God and people who drive the action. But it’s more than just a figure of speech because the words in the KJV do play a part. The way God’s truth is expressed in those specific words has resonated deeply with people, inspiring repentance and faith. So, while it’s ultimately God working through people, the words in the KJV have been a powerful and essential part of that process.

Just like God has used prophets, apostles, and other means to reach people, He has also used the KJV as a vessel of His Word. It’s been uniquely effective in guiding believers to truth and inspiring them to draw closer to Him. So while the KJV itself is a book, it’s a book that has carried God’s message faithfully in ways that have shaped history.


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[Bible_Highlighter]

Who has tried and failed to update the KJV?

The creators of the KJVER, NKJV, MEV, and more.

Many are unqualified because they are secretly for the Critical Text and not the Textus Receptus, which simply shows that the Critical Text movement is not trustworthy. If a KJV update were to happen properly: A group of believers need to be convicted that the Textus Receptus is the superior Greek text that has led to the KJV being the perfect and inerrant words of God for today. But critical text advocates cannot be trusted. Take for example, Westcott and Hort. They lied by saying that the Revised Version was the version set forth in A.D. 1611, when it clearly wasn't (Seeing they snuck in their own Greek text based on Vaticanus and Sinaiticus). Then there is 1 John 5:7. Instead of Modern scholars being honest that verse 7 should be blank, they try to deceive people by moving certain words from a nearby verse to fill in the gap in verse 7. There are many other deceptions like this, of course. Most in your camp cannot see them.

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[Bible_Highlighter]

But the English as it stands in some passages would be totally misleading.

This is only if you have been convinced of the lie that you are some kind of expert in Hebrew and Greek fluently and you know more than the 47 translators of the KJV.

Wishful thinking, no matter how noble it may seem, is not a good thing when it comes to understanding God's Word.

Not all. It is your own wishful thinking that seeks to undermine the KJV unfairly. You are coming up against hundreds of years of positive impact of the most influential Bible in human history. Your argument is not with me but with God's very own book.


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[Genez]

That is a misrepresentation to say, " the KJV is not always revealing the true meaning of God's Word."
The KJV reveals the true meaning in English and it is God's choice to do so.
...

It does not reveal the true meaning in English... in the manner as you claim.
Yet, in some ways, it's more literal and better when that is the case.

And, modern translations in many ways reveal the true meaning much better in a manner we can understand today.

None are perfect.