Preparation for the tribulation.

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Aug 3, 2018
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#41
The big red X means I disagree. Nothing personal.
I can prove you are wrong but will not waste my time because you will not believe the Scripture.
Who are the Saints who are killed by the Man of Sin, who do not take the mark?
AGREED! (y)

Well, I agree there are SAINTS who will be KILLED by the man of sin, who will NOT have taken the mark!! RIGHT! (member "Psalm1" does not seem to acknowledge this, anywhere in his viewpoint / scheme-of-things)


And although you and I seem to have disparate viewpoints of "rapture-timing," we DO agree that there WILL BE "SAINTS" who are IN THE TRIB, who will NOT take the mark and thus will be KILLED / BEHEADED / martyred (during the second half of the Trib yrs)--That is specifically WHO Rev20:4b is speaking to, PER v20:5b's "THIS is the resurrection the first [adj]" (pointing back to the saints specifically spoken of IN VERSE 4b... only [i.e. those beheaded / killed / martyred in the second half of the Trib, when the "mark" will have been in effect]).


The thing about it, is... they are not the only saints to be "resurrected" (FOR the MK age). But I'm not going to zero in on that point for this post (I only have a minute here--And BTW, I'll come back later to address other posts by other members, when I get a chance :) ).


One of the things I want to point out for this post, is the following brief points:

--"resurrection [G386 - anastasis ]" (Rev20:5b) is defined as "to stand again" (in this case, after having DIED);


--the "2 Witnesses" will have resurrected [from the dead] prior to this point in the chronology, where Rev11 tells us that they stand [again, after having been KILLED] at the time of the "2nd Woe" (associated with the "6th Trumpet [events]," PER Rev8:13 which tells us so). The "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe" will NOT YET have taken place at the point when they are shown "ascending up to heaven" (they are "saints / believers" also!)--Many try to "explain this away" through various other "explanations" re: the "2W";


--the text in 20:5b ("THIS") is pointing back specifically to those only in v.4b (the ones "beheaded / killed / martyred" in the second half of the Trib), but again they are not the "sum total" of all [saints] who will be resurrected; But then again, this verse is NOT conveying "this is the FIRST TIME that resurrection [of saints] will have happened" or "this is the FIRST-IN-TIME that resurrection will take place". No, that's not what is being conveyed here (I believe He placed the resurrection of the "2W" PURPOSELY prior to this, to make clear regarding such a notion);


--the text (in Rev20) says that are resurrected, YES... but it NOWHERE states that these saints are "SNATCHED-UP/-AWAY". Nope, they "stand again [G386]" (which always takes place "on the earth"--and how convenient that is, because that is also the location where they will "reign with Christ for a thousand years"--in the EARTHLY MK age);


--1Cor15:23 states (re: resurrection), "BUT [conj] each IN HIS OWN ORDER / RANK" (meaning, there is an "ORDER / RANK" to it... There doesn't remain ONLY ONE at one singular point-in-time)--and this "BUT [conj]" is an important connector; as well, is the importance of the "EPeita" word in this v.23 (whereas in v.24a Paul uses the word "eita"--a SEQUENCE WORD ONLY, with NO time-element attached to it; That Paul uses these two words [in these 2 verses] also tells a lot...);


--there's much more that could be said... but I realize readers lose interest if posts are LONG (including myself! lol)


I learned many years ago that those who believe as you do will never allow the Scripture to teach them the truth.
Right... in many cases some will cling more to their ideas of what scripture says, rather than letting scripture itself inform their ideas. :)

For others, it just takes time... for them to consider things in scripture that they hadn't yet given thought to (over what their "injected ideas" [by whatever means] had told them was true).
 

BOY

Active member
Oct 11, 2024
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#42
Christians left behind are murdered right away by the A C . No true christian goes through the trib. All either recieve the mark, or are killed.
No such thing as a postrib rapture.
There is no pretribulation rapture and you can't show me in the Bible where it says that. not without doing a hell of a lot of talking.
Show me in the Bible without talking.
and I'll show you in the Bible without talking. that we do go through the Tribulation.
 

BOY

Active member
Oct 11, 2024
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#43
Pure deflection.
In line with your hit and run red mark.

Pretrib rapture has verses.
Postib rapture has none.
Not a single verse to support a postrib rapture!!! What is going on with that postrib rapture theory.??????
I have challenged postribbers to show me one single verse and they can not.
As you have demonstrated.
Sorry, but that's an outright lie. and you know it
Pre tube has. no chapters,

but postrib has chapters and verses and here they are

The last Trumpet that sounds as the two end time Witnesses are raised from the dead in the clouds in revelation11 ?

Rev11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

And we all know Jesus comes in the clouds at the last Trumpet

1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Cori15:51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days

shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, THEN the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and THEN shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the CLOUDS of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


And here is another one.


2 Thess2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That day cannot come except that man of sin be revealed, and sits in the Temple of God. and He cannot sit in the Temple of God and till the temple is built, and he doesn't sit in the temple until middle of the seven years

Daniel 11:36 and 37. Daniel 9:27.
 

BOY

Active member
Oct 11, 2024
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#44
Oh I believe you will be hunted.
You will have to take the mark or die according to the bible.
The Bible says that power was given to the Antichrist to overcome the saints.

The Bible says that every man woman and child whether free or Bond receives the mark either in their hand or their forehead and everyone receives the mark that are not written in the lands Book of Life.
Revelation 20 says those that refuse the Mark,and were beheaded, are in heaven.

The Bible says that the martyrs ask for vengeance early on in the tribulation (possibly even pre-tribulation), and they are told to remain under the altar and wait until their number is fulfilled.
Then a few sentences later their number is fulfilled because now all the martyrs are Before the Throne.
That indicates those left behind are all killed because the martyrs number is fulfilled and the martyrs are now in the general population and not confined under the Altar.
Yes, they will hunt us,and kill us but they will have to catch us first. and not all die as it says in the scriptures.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Even though you're a pretrial believer, you can still get your story straight. about what goes on. By studying the word
 
Aug 3, 2018
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#45
There is no pretribulation rapture and you can't show me in the Bible where it says that. not without doing a hell of a lot of talking.
Show me in the Bible without talking.
(As I already pointed out), 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 (those two verses, in and of themselves) DO SAY IT!!
 
Aug 23, 2023
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#46
AGREED! (y)

Well, I agree there are SAINTS who will be KILLED by the man of sin, who will NOT have taken the mark!! RIGHT! (member "Psalm1" does not seem to acknowledge this, anywhere in his viewpoint / scheme-of-things)


And although you and I seem to have disparate viewpoints of "rapture-timing," we DO agree that there WILL BE "SAINTS" who are IN THE TRIB, who will NOT take the mark and thus will be KILLED / BEHEADED / martyred (during the second half of the Trib yrs)--That is specifically WHO Rev20:4b is speaking to, PER v20:5b's "THIS is the resurrection the first [adj]" (pointing back to the saints specifically spoken of IN VERSE 4b... only [i.e. those beheaded / killed / martyred in the second half of the Trib, when the "mark" will have been in effect]).


The thing about it, is... they are not the only saints to be "resurrected" (FOR the MK age). But I'm not going to zero in on that point for this post (I only have a minute here--And BTW, I'll come back later to address other posts by other members, when I get a chance :) ).


One of the things I want to point out for this post, is the following brief points:

--"resurrection [G386 - anastasis ]" (Rev20:5b) is defined as "to stand again" (in this case, after having DIED);


--the "2 Witnesses" will have resurrected [from the dead] prior to this point in the chronology, where Rev11 tells us that they stand [again, after having been KILLED] at the time of the "2nd Woe" (associated with the "6th Trumpet [events]," PER Rev8:13 which tells us so). The "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe" will NOT YET have taken place at the point when they are shown "ascending up to heaven" (they are "saints / believers" also!)--Many try to "explain this away" through various other "explanations" re: the "2W";


--the text in 20:5b ("THIS") is pointing back specifically to those only in v.4b (the ones "beheaded / killed / martyred" in the second half of the Trib), but again they are not the "sum total" of all [saints] who will be resurrected; But then again, this verse is NOT conveying "this is the FIRST TIME that resurrection [of saints] will have happened" or "this is the FIRST-IN-TIME that resurrection will take place". No, that's not what is being conveyed here (I believe He placed the resurrection of the "2W" PURPOSELY prior to this, to make clear regarding such a notion);


--the text (in Rev20) says that are resurrected, YES... but it NOWHERE states that these saints are "SNATCHED-UP/-AWAY". Nope, they "stand again [G386]" (which always takes place "on the earth"--and how convenient that is, because that is also the location where they will "reign with Christ for a thousand years"--in the EARTHLY MK age);


--1Cor15:23 states (re: resurrection), "BUT [conj] each IN HIS OWN ORDER / RANK" (meaning, there is an "ORDER / RANK" to it... There doesn't remain ONLY ONE at one singular point-in-time)--and this "BUT [conj]" is an important connector; as well, is the importance of the "EPeita" word in this v.23 (whereas in v.24a Paul uses the word "eita"--a SEQUENCE WORD ONLY, with NO time-element attached to it; That Paul uses these two words [in these 2 verses] also tells a lot...);


--there's much more that could be said... but I realize readers lose interest if posts are LONG (including myself! lol)




Right... in many cases some will cling more to their ideas of what scripture says, rather than letting scripture itself inform their ideas. :)

For others, it just takes time... for them to consider things in scripture that they hadn't yet given thought to (over what their "injected ideas" [by whatever means] had told them was true).
Your spending of Scripture to fit your belief does not take away the truth that there is only one resurrection of the Saints and it comes when Jesus returns at the seventh, last trump.
 
Aug 3, 2018
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#47
^ I just explained that it doesn't, and why... (and why Rev20:4b does not make such a claim).


Believe as you wish.
 
Aug 23, 2023
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#48
^ I just explained that it doesn't, and why... (and why Rev20:4b does not make such a claim).


Believe as you wish.
I believe the truth as stated in the Scripture.
You are the one who must spin the Scripture with all your fancy words to fit your belief.
Rev. 20 clearly states that only those in the first resurrection will escape the second death.
If you choose to not belief Scripture, that is between you and God.
 

BOY

Active member
Oct 11, 2024
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#49
(As I already pointed out), 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 (those two verses, in and of themselves) DO SAY IT!!
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Are you sure you've got the right two verses?

I don't see anything about Jesus coming before the tribulation.
I don't see anything about Jesus comingin the clouds
I don't see anything about the dead rising.
I don't see anything about the last trumpet.

Are you sure you've got the right two verses?
 
Aug 23, 2023
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#50
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Are you sure you've got the right two verses?

I don't see anything about Jesus coming before the tribulation.
I don't see anything about Jesus comingin the clouds
I don't see anything about the dead rising.
I don't see anything about the last trumpet.

Are you sure you've got the right two verses?
Those who believe in a pre-trib rapture believe these are two separate events.
The gathering before the tribulation and the coming after.
 

BOY

Active member
Oct 11, 2024
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#51
I was in another country on the other side of the planet when COVID-19 struck! I got stuck there for most of the year, but totally avoided all the problems that happened in the US.

I think God was showing us different ways He takes care of individuals in a crisis. In some situations, He helps us preparing for that situation within that crisis, in others, He will put them out of harms way (but not raptured physically - I was still on earth, just in a different part of it). It's like that in the Bible too.


🔮

It's a tricky one. and hard to get your head around, but it is very very interesting.

Tell me what you think
 
Aug 3, 2018
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#52
Those who believe in a pre-trib rapture believe these are two separate events.
The gathering before the tribulation and the coming after.
To BOY, I was pointing out only verses 1 & 2 (I was NOT speaking of ANYTHING BEYOND these TWO verses, which does NOT *include* the second part of your last sentence above ^ the part I underlined--that's NOT in either v.1 or v.2... so it would help to STAY ON POINT).



So let's start by focusing in on the content of verse 1 (for starters), where it says,

"1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

-- do you agree or disagree that the word "COMING" in this verse is the Greek word "PAROUSIA" (which means "presence"), and is speaking of "the coming / presence of our Lord Jesus Christ AND OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" which refers to the time-slot of "OUR RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" [like 1Th4:17 speaks to]?
If you do NOT agree, then what do you believe VERSE 1 speaks of instead?
 
Aug 3, 2018
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#53
^ and let the readers recognize that "1Th4:17" is in the CONTEXT of 1Th3:13, which states,

"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before [G1715 -in the presence of] the God and Father of us, at / in the coming / presence of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." [THAT is UP THERE... even further up beyond the "IN THE AIR" meeting of the Lord...]




____________

This CORRESPONDS with the word "[to] PRESENT [G3936]" in the following:

"Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present G3936 us with you."
 
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#54
Zephaniah 2:3 "Seek ye the Lord, all the meek of the earth, which have wrought His judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: It may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger"
Does not matter what preparation you make if you are out of God's will. Out of fellowship with Him.
Hid. Hidden. Not flown away. Covered. Protected. Until Christ descends or I am blessed to lose my head on His behalf. I wouldn't like to starve or see anybody starve. I like heat and lights, useful items. So yes, I'm prepared. And He is the one who warned me to prepare.
Not to worry, but to be prudent. "The wise man sees the trouble ahead and prepares himself." But it would all be for nought, if my heart were not right with Christ.
You are 100% correct.
 
Aug 3, 2018
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#55
Col 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2
Set your affection / mind on things above, not on things on the earth. [remember the other verse: "who mind earthly things"--Israel's "earthly things"--things that pertain to Israel]
Col 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.



[ ^ addressed to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"--that's us]
 

BOY

Active member
Oct 11, 2024
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#56
To BOY, I was pointing out only verses 1 & 2 (I was NOT speaking of ANYTHING BEYOND these TWO verses, which does NOT *include* the second part of your last sentence above ^ the part I underlined--that's NOT in either v.1 or v.2... so it would help to STAY ON POINT).



So let's start by focusing in on the content of verse 1 (for starters), where it says,

"1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

-- do you agree or disagree that the word "COMING" in this verse is the Greek word "PAROUSIA" (which means "presence"), and is speaking of "the coming / presence of our Lord Jesus Christ AND OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" which refers to the time-slot of "OUR RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" [like 1Th4:17 speaks to]?
If you do NOT agree, then what do you believe VERSE 1 speaks of instead?
ok
 
Aug 3, 2018
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#57
Hi BOY ,

Just to be clear.. that post was me endeavoring to rectify [or at least make clear to] DRobinson's Comment, whose post kind of made it SOUND as though MY post was talking about what HE was. Make sense? lol. (I wasn't.)




[I find that is one fast way to lose track of what the original person (namely me, in this case) was ACTUALLY saying... which is unhelpful when trying to get to the bottom of what one has asked (namely you, in this case)]
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
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#58
Well my take is.. at least were looking watching for Him. And.. again have I left a trace of JESUS behind. Yeah.. Hes out there saving them.. that preacher we made fun of that has some doctrine we don't like or has done things to kids.. men and woman do this. Those on the streets.. those that kill hurt rob.. yeah.. nothing has change.. He has not come to judge or condemn but to save them. That other will come but not today. I want that song.. I want that song. You know in heaven your not suppose to cry but I am sure I saw a tear in your eye when He told you to turn round and look.. for great is your reward.
 
Aug 3, 2018
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#59
And.. again have I left a trace of JESUS behind.
This ^ is my heart as well.




[IOW, "what we say TODAY" (about Jesus and about Scripture) will / can / may very well impact THEM in that future time-period that we call The Trib (even though we will not be present on the earth at that time)]
 
Feb 17, 2023
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#60

It's a tricky one. and hard to get your head around, but it is very very interesting.

Tell me what you think

*Shrug* I don't know. I just have a wait and see attitude about it. I'm wondering if God will allow that two-state solution to go through. God is personally against it - He says so in the Bible. I also can't imagine the Muslims will allow the Jews to build the third temple and restart the daily sacrifices.

I'm thinking there will be a surprise twist that no one will see coming.... 🤷


🥙