Preparation for the tribulation.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,779
6,451
113
62
Do you consider yourself a mild, moderate or extreme preterist?
I never ascribe to labels. I'm happy to share my biblical understanding of any topic, but I find the use of "ists" and "isms" a distraction. People tend to stop listening when they start labeling because they think they know already what you believe.
 
Aug 25, 2024
301
138
43
I never ascribe to labels. I'm happy to share my biblical understanding of any topic, but I find the use of "ists" and "isms" a distraction. People tend to stop listening when they start labeling because they think they know already what you believe.
Fair point.

OK,bear with me because I know very little of what is titled Preterism. Full or partial.

Without alluding to those labels, if Jesus already fulfilled the prophecy of his second coming,and Revelation prophecies were all fulfilled also in 70 A.D. , what does it mean that we are all here now?
 
Nov 1, 2024
164
41
28
Have you seen John Hagee's new video? Replacement theology. The Jews don't need Jesus. They are blessed by God. And through the Jews God will bless us. Just need to watch about 5 minutes. No need to comment If you don't want.

Pastor John Hagee - "Seven Signs of His Coming"
Hagee's a deceived fool
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,779
6,451
113
62
Fair point.

OK,bear with me because I know very little of what is titled Preterism. Full or partial.

Without alluding to those labels, if Jesus already fulfilled the prophecy of his second coming,and Revelation prophecies were all fulfilled also in 70 A.D. , what does it mean that we are all here now?
It's a good question because God never does anything that lacks design or brings Him glory. So what is the design and what brings Him glory?

God's design or plan has never changed. His plan has always been to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory. To do this He created the earth and then crowned His creation with sentient beings made in His image who could enjoy relating to and know Him. He then tasked them to be responsible for the creation and to be fruitful and fill it. God's thinking was that as His image was multiplied and filled the earth and more people experienced God and the wonders of His creation, the knowledge of His glory would indeed fill the earth.
Then sin entered in and the image of God was corrupted in man and man was separated from God by sin. No longer would the proliferation of mankind fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.
So what does God do? What He always does: He sets into motion His plan in Christ. This has many aspects that I'm happy to share if you like. But one of those things is the continuation of His plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory. Since the image of God can no longer be proliferated through natural birth, a supernatural birth became necessary. And it is by being born again that the image of God is restored to man, reconciliation with God is accomplished, and the knowledge of the glory of the Lord fills the earth.
I say all that to say what we are to be doing what mankind has always been tasked with doing: filling the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

As far as why I believe Jesus returned in 70AD is because I believe the book of Revelation is about the end of a covenant and not the end of time. If you were to outline the book of Deuteronomy where the old covenant was established and the book of Revelation which ends the covenant, you will find the exact same outline. The only difference is one establishes the sanctions for the failure of not upholding the terms of the covenant, and the other describes the sanctions that are about to unfold.

There's alot more but I'm not sure the level of your interest. If you have more questions I'm happy to answer.
 
Aug 25, 2024
301
138
43
It's a good question because God never does anything that lacks design or brings Him glory. So what is the design and what brings Him glory?

God's design or plan has never changed. His plan has always been to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory. To do this He created the earth and then crowned His creation with sentient beings made in His image who could enjoy relating to and know Him. He then tasked them to be responsible for the creation and to be fruitful and fill it. God's thinking was that as His image was multiplied and filled the earth and more people experienced God and the wonders of His creation, the knowledge of His glory would indeed fill the earth.
Then sin entered in and the image of God was corrupted in man and man was separated from God by sin. No longer would the proliferation of mankind fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.
So what does God do? What He always does: He sets into motion His plan in Christ. This has many aspects that I'm happy to share if you like. But one of those things is the continuation of His plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory. Since the image of God can no longer be proliferated through natural birth, a supernatural birth became necessary. And it is by being born again that the image of God is restored to man, reconciliation with God is accomplished, and the knowledge of the glory of the Lord fills the earth.
I say all that to say what we are to be doing what mankind has always been tasked with doing: filling the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

As far as why I believe Jesus returned in 70AD is because I believe the book of Revelation is about the end of a covenant and not the end of time. If you were to outline the book of Deuteronomy where the old covenant was established and the book of Revelation which ends the covenant, you will find the exact same outline. The only difference is one establishes the sanctions for the failure of not upholding the terms of the covenant, and the other describes the sanctions that are about to unfold.

There's alot more but I'm not sure the level of your interest. If you have more questions I'm happy to answer.
But,but,God planted the tree of knowledge into his garden. And after he gazed upon all he created he called it good. Then he forbid Adam and Eve to eat from that tree because if they did they would die. And sure enough by one man sin entered this world.

Which only happened because God planted that tree.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,779
6,451
113
62
But,but,God planted the tree of knowledge into his garden. And after he gazed upon all he created he called it good. Then he forbid Adam and Eve to eat from that tree because if they did they would die. And sure enough by one man sin entered this world.

Which only happened because God planted that tree.
Before God planted the tree, Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Sin was already accounted for.
 
Aug 3, 2018
10,877
2,111
113
Jesus is the Lamb slain before [pro] the foundation of the world.
The text itself states, "lamb slain FROM [APO] the foundation of the world"


(which ^ I pointed out earlier--perhaps even in this very thread--is DISTINCT from the texts which actually state "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"... but not in THIS text; IOW, distinct matters)

The Lambs Book of Life was written before [pro] the foundation of the world too.
"book of life"

[and]

"[not written...] ... FROM [apo] the foundation of the world." (ditto what I pointed out above ^ )









[for the readers: the esv of Rev13:8 is not accurate, but should read "[Lamb] slain FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" (not names "written BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world" in THIS verse]




Again, there IS a DISTINCTION between the [two] biblical phrases "FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" and "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"; I would encourage a study of the differences (in scripture), and would discourage the conflating of the matters that EACH of these specifically speak to.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,779
6,451
113
62
The text itself states, "lamb slain FROM [APO] the foundation of the world"


(which ^ I pointed out earlier--perhaps even in this very thread--is DISTINCT from the texts which actually state "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"... but not in THIS text; IOW, distinct matters)



"book of life"

[and]

"[not written...] ... FROM [apo] the foundation of the world." (ditto what I pointed out above ^ )









[for the readers: the esv of Rev13:8 is not accurate, but should read "[Lamb] slain FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" (not names "written BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world" in THIS verse]




Again, there IS a DISTINCTION between the [two] biblical phrases "FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" and "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"; I would encourage a study of the differences (in scripture), and would discourage the conflating of the matters that EACH of these specifically speak to.
Why not just tell us in your own words without any distracting additions the difference?
 
Aug 3, 2018
10,877
2,111
113
Paul, when he used that word "departure [G359 - analysis ]" (2Tim4:6), he was referring to his death (per context).

However, "rapture [G726 - harpagēsometha ]" (1Thess4:17), when the entire corporate "Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" will be "SNATCHed-up/-away]" at once (in ONE "snatch-action"), that is NOT equivalent (in any way) to the word or idea of [our] "death" (nor the idea of "sleep through Jesus" speaking of our "death").
(It will also involve our bodies, although they will be "changed in a moment" i.e. to "glorified" bodies; Phil3:21 "that it might be fashioned like unto His glorious body..." [i.e. what 2Cor5:4's "clothed-upon" speaks to also... that is, when we get our "glorified bodies"--"changed in a moment"])
We're not going to inherit helium bodies.
Hilarious! :D



Well, that'd be a good argument... except we NOWHERE see that Jesus' body ("His glorious body") consisted of "helium" :) ... and I just pointed out, in the text of Phil3:21, which context states,

20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.




[There's also 1 John 3:2 saying, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."; And 2 Corinthians 5:1 saying, "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."]



Nothing about "helium," LOL!



And a "SNATCH [G726]" doesn't even require a "floating" upward. :D





____________

@Cameron143 , I've pointed out the texts (and their differences)... but I'm not going to do your homework FOR you! :D
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,779
6,451
113
62
Hilarious! :D



Well, that'd be a good argument... except we NOWHERE see that Jesus' body ("His glorious body") consisted of "helium" :) ... and I just pointed out, in the text of Phil3:21, which context states,

20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.




[There's also 1 John 3:2 saying, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."; And 2 Corinthians 5:1 saying, "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."]



Nothing about "helium," LOL!



And a "SNATCH [G726]" doesn't even require a "floating" upward. :D





____________

@Cameron143 , I've pointed out the texts (and their differences)... but I'm not going to do your homework FOR you! :D
Weary in well doing I guess. You are fine addressing posts that aren't addressed to you, but don't respond to ones directed towards you. Hmmm.
 
Aug 25, 2024
301
138
43
The text itself states, "lamb slain FROM [APO] the foundation of the world"


(which ^ I pointed out earlier--perhaps even in this very thread--is DISTINCT from the texts which actually state "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"... but not in THIS text; IOW, distinct matters)



"book of life"

[and]

"[not written...] ... FROM [apo] the foundation of the world." (ditto what I pointed out above ^ )




[for the readers: the esv of Rev13:8 is not accurate, but should read "[Lamb] slain FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" (not names "written BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world" in THIS verse]




Again, there IS a DISTINCTION between the [two] biblical phrases "FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" and "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"; I would encourage a study of the differences (in scripture), and would discourage the conflating of the matters that EACH of these specifically speak to.

However you wish to look at it, the lamb and the book were slain and written before anything was created.


Revelation 13:8

Complete Jewish Bible

8 Everyone living on earth will worship it except those whose names are written in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb slaughtered before the world was founded.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 13:8&version=CJB


Hisgalus 13:8

Orthodox Jewish Bible

8 And all the ones dwelling on ha’aretz (the earth) will worship the Chayyah (Beast, Anti-Moshiach), all the ones whose name has not been written in the Sefer HaChayyim of the SEH (Lamb, SHEMOT 12:3; YESHAYAH 53:7, Moshiach) having been slain from lifnei hivvased tevel (before the foundation of the world).
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 13:8&version=OJB
 
Aug 25, 2024
301
138
43
Drats! No Helium bodies? I was so looking forward to having the accompanying Helium voice so to ask God a lot of questions.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,095
2,126
113
And a "SNATCH [G726]" doesn't even require a "floating" upward. :D
Philip was "raptured" after baptizing the Ethiopian and was found at Azotus.
20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

[There's also 1 John 3:2 saying, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."; And 2 Corinthians 5:1 saying, "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."]
1John3:2
Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.

and
Acts 1:12

“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

When Christ (re)appears, it will not be to disappear again.