Preparation for the tribulation.
- Thread starter BOY
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I never ascribe to labels. I'm happy to share my biblical understanding of any topic, but I find the use of "ists" and "isms" a distraction. People tend to stop listening when they start labeling because they think they know already what you believe.
Fair point.
OK,bear with me because I know very little of what is titled Preterism. Full or partial.
Without alluding to those labels, if Jesus already fulfilled the prophecy of his second coming,and Revelation prophecies were all fulfilled also in 70 A.D. , what does it mean that we are all here now?
It's a good question because God never does anything that lacks design or brings Him glory. So what is the design and what brings Him glory?
God's design or plan has never changed. His plan has always been to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory. To do this He created the earth and then crowned His creation with sentient beings made in His image who could enjoy relating to and know Him. He then tasked them to be responsible for the creation and to be fruitful and fill it. God's thinking was that as His image was multiplied and filled the earth and more people experienced God and the wonders of His creation, the knowledge of His glory would indeed fill the earth.
Then sin entered in and the image of God was corrupted in man and man was separated from God by sin. No longer would the proliferation of mankind fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.
So what does God do? What He always does: He sets into motion His plan in Christ. This has many aspects that I'm happy to share if you like. But one of those things is the continuation of His plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory. Since the image of God can no longer be proliferated through natural birth, a supernatural birth became necessary. And it is by being born again that the image of God is restored to man, reconciliation with God is accomplished, and the knowledge of the glory of the Lord fills the earth.
I say all that to say what we are to be doing what mankind has always been tasked with doing: filling the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.
As far as why I believe Jesus returned in 70AD is because I believe the book of Revelation is about the end of a covenant and not the end of time. If you were to outline the book of Deuteronomy where the old covenant was established and the book of Revelation which ends the covenant, you will find the exact same outline. The only difference is one establishes the sanctions for the failure of not upholding the terms of the covenant, and the other describes the sanctions that are about to unfold.
There's alot more but I'm not sure the level of your interest. If you have more questions I'm happy to answer.
But,but,God planted the tree of knowledge into his garden. And after he gazed upon all he created he called it good. Then he forbid Adam and Eve to eat from that tree because if they did they would die. And sure enough by one man sin entered this world.
Which only happened because God planted that tree.
Before God planted the tree, Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Sin was already accounted for.
Thank you.
The Lambs Book of Life was written before the foundation of the world too.
Which tells us God destined the world to fall.
The text itself states, "lamb slain FROM [APO] the foundation of the world"
(which ^ I pointed out earlier--perhaps even in this very thread--is DISTINCT from the texts which actually state "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"... but not in THIS text; IOW, distinct matters)
"book of life"
[and]
"[not written...] ... FROM [apo] the foundation of the world." (ditto what I pointed out above ^ )
[for the readers: the esv of Rev13:8 is not accurate, but should read "[Lamb] slain FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" (not names "written BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world" in THIS verse]
Again, there IS a DISTINCTION between the [two] biblical phrases "FROM [apo] the foundation of the world" and "BEFORE [pro] the foundation of the world"; I would encourage a study of the differences (in scripture), and would discourage the conflating of the matters that EACH of these specifically speak to.
Why not just tell us in your own words without any distracting additions the difference?
Hilarious!
Well, that'd be a good argument... except we NOWHERE see that Jesus' body ("His glorious body") consisted of "helium"
... and I just pointed out, in the text of Phil3:21, which context states,20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
[There's also 1 John 3:2 saying, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."; And 2 Corinthians 5:1 saying, "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."]
Nothing about "helium," LOL!
And a "SNATCH [G726]" doesn't even require a "floating" upward.
____________
@Cameron143 , I've pointed out the texts (and their differences)... but I'm not going to do your homework FOR you!
Weary in well doing I guess. You are fine addressing posts that aren't addressed to you, but don't respond to ones directed towards you. Hmmm.Hilarious!
Well, that'd be a good argument... except we NOWHERE see that Jesus' body ("His glorious body") consisted of "helium"
20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
[There's also 1 John 3:2 saying, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."; And 2 Corinthians 5:1 saying, "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."]
Nothing about "helium," LOL!
And a "SNATCH [G726]" doesn't even require a "floating" upward.
____________
@Cameron143 , I've pointed out the texts (and their differences)... but I'm not going to do your homework FOR you!
However you wish to look at it, the lamb and the book were slain and written before anything was created.
Revelation 13:8
Complete Jewish Bible
8 Everyone living on earth will worship it except those whose names are written in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb slaughtered before the world was founded.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 13:8&version=CJB
Hisgalus 13:8
Orthodox Jewish Bible
8 And all the ones dwelling on ha’aretz (the earth) will worship the Chayyah (Beast, Anti-Moshiach), all the ones whose name has not been written in the Sefer HaChayyim of the SEH (Lamb, SHEMOT 12:3; YESHAYAH 53:7, Moshiach) having been slain from lifnei hivvased tevel (before the foundation of the world).
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 13:8&version=OJB
Drats! No Helium bodies? I was so looking forward to having the accompanying Helium voice so to ask God a lot of questions.
Philip was "raptured" after baptizing the Ethiopian and was found at Azotus.And a "SNATCH [G726]" doesn't even require a "floating" upward.
1John3:2
Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.
and
Acts 1:12
“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
When Christ (re)appears, it will not be to disappear again.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
Right (but of course, this wasn't the instance of the "snatch" that pertains to "the corporate Church which is His body" which the text of 1Th4:17 specifically speaks to);
1Th4:17 also is not a verse to be understood apart from its context--in other words, IF 1Th4:17 had words surrounding it that tell us that we (the Church which is His body) will be "snatched" FROM one location on the earth TO another location on the earth, LIKE PHILIP WAS, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, right?
But its surrounding CONTEXT does have words telling us the "WHERE" of our corporate "snatch"...
--first stop: "TO the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR"
--and next stop (per 3:13) "in the presence [G1715] of the God and Father of us, in the parousia/presence [/coming] of our Lord Jesus Christ with [G3326 - accompanied-with] all His saints"
(that is FURTHER ON UP, higher... TO "in the presence of the God and Father of us")
[2Th2:1 is another verse speaking of the Subject of our rapture / snatch event]
As to your comments on 1 John 3:2 ^ , notice the SAME Greek word that's used twice in 1Jn3:2 is also used twice in the following verse (which verse supplies a bit more info)... G5319 (2x in each of the following verses):
"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear [G5319], then shall ye also appear [phanerōthēsesthe - G5319] with [G4862 - UNIONed-with] him in glory." - Colossians 3:4
(addressed to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... "WHEN" He shall appear, [the Church which is His body] "YE shall also appear UNIONed-with Him in glory" ["appear" where and to whom?? another text, elsewhere, answers this decisively... but that's a conversation for another day... This is enough for now])
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/col/3/4/ss1/t_conc_1110004 [G5319 - 2x]
-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/3/2/t_conc_1162002 [G5319 - 2x]
I hope you can see my point, here ^ ... that the Colossians 3:4 verse elaborates further beyond what 1Jn3:2 states simply.
Great conversation, thank you for engaging. I'm enjoying the thought-provoking interaction.
The part I placed in BOLD ^ above, refers back to the "FALSE CLAIM" (claiming IT "IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE") in verse 2.
But I've not seen a response from you regarding WHAT WAS THE CONTENT OF "the FALSE CLAIM".
What was it? What does the "false claim" (v.2) pertain to?
[for the readers: Paul is BRINGING the Subject of Verse 1 (our Rapture event) TO BEAR UPON the matter of the "FALSE CLAIM" of Verse 2--but without the reader understanding WHAT THE FALSE CLAIM WAS (v.2), one cannot grasp what Paul is actually conveying in this passage]
[I didn't open your links, but...] I agree.
"The judgment seat of Christ" ["BEMA"] pertains solely to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (that's us).
The wording of Rev5:4 ("was found") informs that a searching judgment has already been concluded;
...and we see the promise made (in the "things WHICH ARE" section [chpts 2-3]) in 3:5, is shown AS FULFILLED ("having been clothed in") in 4:4... BEFORE the opening of the FIRST SEAL which kicks-off the Tribulation period (7 yr period).
____________
To your other point, we notice in the text of Hosea 5:14-6:3 (about Israel... and Israel's *future*), that that text states (re: Israel), "in their affliction [tribulation - LXX], they shall seek me early [or, earnestly]"
(and v.2 of this context supplies the "timing" matter of it, where it says "after TWO DAYS" and "IN the THIRD DAY"--from the perspective of His ascension point in time per vv.14-15 of that context. [These are not "24-hr day" kind of "days," in this text])