Preparation for the tribulation.

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Aug 22, 2024
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If all of the Revelation prophecies are fulfilled doesn't that mean the beast is in charge now?
The rapture as you know it is a myth (2Tim4:4) and Paul was speaking of his rapture when he said the time of his departure was at hand (2Tim4:6).
The rapture as I know it is what is declared in Matthew 24 and 25.

Was Jesus mistaken?
 
Aug 22, 2024
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It's a good question because God never does anything that lacks design or brings Him glory. So what is the design and what brings Him glory?

God's design or plan has never changed. His plan has always been to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory. To do this He created the earth and then crowned His creation with sentient beings made in His image who could enjoy relating to and know Him. He then tasked them to be responsible for the creation and to be fruitful and fill it. God's thinking was that as His image was multiplied and filled the earth and more people experienced God and the wonders of His creation, the knowledge of His glory would indeed fill the earth.
Then sin entered in and the image of God was corrupted in man and man was separated from God by sin. No longer would the proliferation of mankind fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.
So what does God do? What He always does: He sets into motion His plan in Christ. This has many aspects that I'm happy to share if you like. But one of those things is the continuation of His plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory. Since the image of God can no longer be proliferated through natural birth, a supernatural birth became necessary. And it is by being born again that the image of God is restored to man, reconciliation with God is accomplished, and the knowledge of the glory of the Lord fills the earth.
I say all that to say what we are to be doing what mankind has always been tasked with doing: filling the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

As far as why I believe Jesus returned in 70AD is because I believe the book of Revelation is about the end of a covenant and not the end of time. If you were to outline the book of Deuteronomy where the old covenant was established and the book of Revelation which ends the covenant, you will find the exact same outline. The only difference is one establishes the sanctions for the failure of not upholding the terms of the covenant, and the other describes the sanctions that are about to unfold.

There's alot more but I'm not sure the level of your interest. If you have more questions I'm happy to answer.
History itself debunks the historicist view ( preterist)
Nowhere has the Antichrist existed
Nowhere has there been a worldwide mark.
Nowhere has 1/3 of the planet population been destroyed.
Nowhere has there been flying scorpions.
Nor hailstones of fire, or a mountain thrown into the sea.

Historicist view is a huge rabbit trail
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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History itself debunks the historicist view ( preterist)
Nowhere has the Antichrist existed
Nowhere has there been a worldwide mark.
Nowhere has 1/3 of the planet population been destroyed.
Nowhere has there been flying scorpions.
Nor hailstones of fire, or a mountain thrown into the sea.

Historicist view is a huge rabbit trail
We can test this if you like. Can you share what the book of Revelation is about as you understand it? If you have an outline of the book with say 4 or major divisions to share that would be awesome.
 
Aug 22, 2024
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What is the major theme of the book of Revelation as you understand it?
The tribulation,Or the Great Tribulation ,is from what I can see, something like a plow that is being used to prepare the Jewish people for Revelation 14, which is the Gathering of the Jews.

The last part of the Great Tribulation is tremendous wrath poured out from heaven and I believe it's God's heart and desire that men would repent and turn to him.

over in 1st Peter chapter 4 it talks about why Trials come into our life and what they should produce in our life as far as drawing us closer to God.
(participating in the sufferings of Christ.)

So , in most of Revelation, you see tremendous trouble and judgments coming on the Earth, and then tremendous judgments and trouble coming on the inhabitants of Earth.

The Bible talks about Jerusalem being trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is completed.
I believe that the pre-tribulation Rapture is just that.
it's the times of the Gentiles ending and so God turns his attention to his Covenant people the jews.
And that to me sums up revelation.
it's the two wives.
The father and his Covenant wife the Jewish people , and Jesus with his Covenant people ,the bride of Christ.
I 100% believe that if we don't understand the foundation, the basis, and God's purposes of the Book of Revelation, and what's really happening ,we never will understand what's going on.

For example without reading the book of Ruth, and understanding the typology in the Book of Ruth, we can never understand Revelation 5.
Because Revelation 5 is in fact the kinsman redeemer depicted in the Book of Ruth.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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The tribulation,Or the Great Tribulation ,is from what I can see, something like a plow that is being used to prepare the Jewish people for Revelation 14, which is the Gathering of the Jews.

The last part of the Great Tribulation is tremendous wrath poured out from heaven and I believe it's God's heart and desire that men would repent and turn to him.

over in 1st Peter chapter 4 it talks about why Trials come into our life and what they should produce in our life as far as drawing us closer to God.
(participating in the sufferings of Christ.)

So , in most of Revelation, you see tremendous trouble and judgments coming on the Earth, and then tremendous judgments and trouble coming on the inhabitants of Earth.

The Bible talks about Jerusalem being trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is completed.
I believe that the pre-tribulation Rapture is just that.
it's the times of the Gentiles ending and so God turns his attention to his Covenant people the jews.
And that to me sums up revelation.
it's the two wives.
The father and his Covenant wife the Jewish people , and Jesus with his Covenant people ,the bride of Christ.
I 100% believe that if we don't understand the foundation, the basis, and God's purposes of the Book of Revelation, and what's really happening ,we never will understand what's going on.

For example without reading the book of Ruth, and understanding the typology in the Book of Ruth, we can never understand Revelation 5.
Because Revelation 5 is in fact the kinsman redeemer depicted in the Book of Ruth.
You have listed a number of things, but it seems to be that tribulation is most prevalent.
God has great design in all He does. What is God accomplishing in this tribulation?
 

BOY

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Oct 11, 2024
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The part I placed in BOLD ^ above, refers back to the "FALSE CLAIM" (claiming IT "IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE") in verse 2.



But I've not seen a response from you regarding WHAT WAS THE CONTENT OF "the FALSE CLAIM".

What was it? What does the "false claim" (v.2) pertain to?







[for the readers: Paul is BRINGING the Subject of Verse 1 (our Rapture event) TO BEAR UPON the matter of the "FALSE CLAIM" of Verse 2--but without the reader understanding WHAT THE FALSE CLAIM WAS (v.2), one cannot grasp what Paul is actually conveying in this passage]
Sorry I don't know what you're talking about. Just say what you mean Keep it simple. So a child could understand. like me.
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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The rapture as I know it is what is declared in Matthew 24 and 25.

Was Jesus mistaken?
You've only expected me to adopt your assumption that your understanding of the rapture is accurate, using the logical fallacy of an appeal to (your) authority as though it is the same as Jesus', as though you know exactly what Jesus knows.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Right (but of course, this wasn't the instance of the "snatch" that pertains to "the corporate Church which is His body" which the text of 1Th4:17 specifically speaks to);



1Th4:17 also is not a verse to be understood apart from its context--in other words, IF 1Th4:17 had words surrounding it that tell us that we (the Church which is His body) will be "snatched" FROM one location on the earth TO another location on the earth, LIKE PHILIP WAS, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, right?

But its surrounding CONTEXT does have words telling us the "WHERE" of our corporate "snatch"...

--first stop: "TO the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR"

--and next stop (per 3:13) "in the presence [G1715] of the God and Father of us, in the parousia/presence [/coming] of our Lord Jesus Christ with [G3326 - accompanied-with] all His saints"

(that is FURTHER ON UP, higher... TO "in the presence of the God and Father of us")




[2Th2:1 is another verse speaking of the Subject of our rapture / snatch event]



As to your comments on 1 John 3:2 ^ , notice the SAME Greek word that's used twice in 1Jn3:2 is also used twice in the following verse (which verse supplies a bit more info)... G5319 (2x in each of the following verses):

"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear [G5319], then shall ye also appear [phanerōthēsesthe - G5319] with [G4862 - UNIONed-with] him in glory." - Colossians 3:4

(addressed to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... "WHEN" He shall appear, [the Church which is His body] "YE shall also appear UNIONed-with Him in glory" ["appear" where and to whom?? another text, elsewhere, answers this decisively... but that's a conversation for another day... This is enough for now])

-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/col/3/4/ss1/t_conc_1110004 [G5319 - 2x]

-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1jo/3/2/t_conc_1162002 [G5319 - 2x]





I hope you can see my point, here ^ ... that the Colossians 3:4 verse elaborates further beyond what 1Jn3:2 states simply.




Great conversation, thank you for engaging. I'm enjoying the thought-provoking interaction. :)
Thank you for displaying such grace in suffering with me. Re: that "Ye shall also appear with Him in glory..." I haven't completely come to the conclusion that His "coming with His angels" isn't (also) speaking toward "Ye." @Dino246, I think, might've once or twice mentioned a scholar that has explored this idea in more detail, and I wish I had noted the author and his work the better to see if his thoughts are of a similar notion.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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And what says the falling away hasn't already happened, say 70 years ago? When the Bible had been banned from public schools? When secular humanism (the number of a man?) or Darwinism became the 'rule of the day'?
 
Aug 22, 2024
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What Scripture do you base your 20/80% on?
I notice you leave your little ugly reds on my posts the retreat into the shadows.
Prove me wrong instead of drive by slinging graffiti on my excellent biblical posts.
 
Aug 22, 2024
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Zephaniah 2:3 "Seek ye the Lord, all the meek of the earth, which have wrought His judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: It may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger"
Does not matter what preparation you make if you are out of God's will. Out of fellowship with Him.
 
Aug 22, 2024
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You've only expected me to adopt your assumption that your understanding of the rapture is accurate, using the logical fallacy of an appeal to (your) authority as though it is the same as Jesus', as though you know exactly what Jesus knows.
Uh , no.
I don't EXPECT you to do anything but disagree.

That is Your assumption.

But yes I am accurate in what Jesus says.

I do appeal to Jesus authority and I Can confidently do so.

So yes there is assumptions and appeals in my posts and yours.
I base mine on the Bible.
What your assumption was in your post proved you need a better starting place besides just framing me in your intellectual box.
 
Aug 22, 2024
63
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You have listed a number of things, but it seems to be that tribulation is most prevalent.
God has great design in all He does. What is God accomplishing in this tribulation?
I can only report what is written.
The church is conspicuously absent in all the seals.
The trib is the subject presented.
I can only report it.
 
Aug 22, 2024
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They should have a rule here that people that do this red X sniping and graffiti on someone's post.

They should be required to address that person instead of just marking up their excellent post and then running away
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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I can only report what is written.
The church is conspicuously absent in all the seals.
The trib is the subject presented.
I can only report it.
The church is absent because the book isn't about the church. It's about the old covenant ending and the sanctions stipulated in the covenant being brought to pass.