Preparation for the tribulation.
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Yes, I am familiar with the argument... which would be a fair argument except for the verse I'd pointed out.
Allow me to explain the issue briefly, as I understand it...
CONSIDER:
--the argument (which has SOME validity) goes something like this:
"[comes...and] holy [G40 - holy ones - PL] with [G3326 - accompanied-with] him [G846]" - Zech14:5LXX
...seems to correspond with...
... all of these (the argument goes) that the "G40" (holy ones) that are coming with Him are "angels" (because some of these texts actually state so... by also including the word "angels [G32]" which makes that abundantly clear in those texts).
I would point out (in these texts) that the "with" word is always either "G3326 [accompanied-with]" or "G1722 [in/accompaniment]".
My point being, in places wherever it is speaking of "angels" coming with Him (or even, also coming) it NEVER uses the "G4862 [UNIONed-with]" word that we see used in Colossians 3:4 I'd pointed out ('then shall YE also appear [G5319] WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him in glory");
And while it is true that we can (be spoken of as) [be] "G3326 - with [accompanied-with]" in some texts,
"angels" are never spoken of using the "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] [Him]" word, see.
[the "G4862 [UNIONed-with] [Him]" word is also used in 1Th4:14 (a verse I find is often misunderstood), and in the well-known ['rapture'] verse 1Thess4:17 "so shall WE ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord."
What I'm pointing out about those various texts AT TOP (which the argument goes, always refers to "angels" [as the "holy-ones [G40]"]), is that those instances NEVER use this "G4862 - WITH" word, as IS used regarding US]
____________
All of that ^ is beside the point that Colossians 3:4 also uses the word " *YE / YOU" (the persons being addressed; which I'm saying is [the corporate] "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and not merely the Colossians-church of the first century alone... if that makes sense.
)
[ * YE / YOU - "G4771 - hymeis " according to BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/3-4.htm ; or "G5210 - hymeis " according to BlueLetterBible - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/col/3/4/ss1/t_conc_1110004 -- either way, it *means* the same thing: "YOU" (not referring to "angels [G32 (or even the less-specific "G40 [holy-ones]")]" here in this verse... no, the word is "YOU" =) )]
Hope that helps you see my perspective.
Yes, I'm familiar with the argument that I believe you are referring to (referenced BRIEFLY above, in my post here); but I don't see it holding up, considering the actual text of Col3:4 and its wording.
Allow me to explain the issue briefly, as I understand it...
CONSIDER:
--the argument (which has SOME validity) goes something like this:
"[comes...and] holy [G40 - holy ones - PL] with [G3326 - accompanied-with] him [G846]" - Zech14:5LXX
...seems to correspond with...
- "holy [G40] angels [G32] with [G3326 - accompanied-with] him [G846]" - Matt25:31... and
- "with [G3326 - accompanied-with] the holy [G40] angels [G32]" - Mk8:38, and Mt16:27 [/Lk9:26]... and
- "[cometh] in [G1722 - in/accompaniment] ten thousands of his [G846] holy-ones [G40]" - Jude 1:14
... all of these (the argument goes) that the "G40" (holy ones) that are coming with Him are "angels" (because some of these texts actually state so... by also including the word "angels [G32]" which makes that abundantly clear in those texts).
I would point out (in these texts) that the "with" word is always either "G3326 [accompanied-with]" or "G1722 [in/accompaniment]".
My point being, in places wherever it is speaking of "angels" coming with Him (or even, also coming) it NEVER uses the "G4862 [UNIONed-with]" word that we see used in Colossians 3:4 I'd pointed out ('then shall YE also appear [G5319] WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him in glory");
And while it is true that we can (be spoken of as) [be] "G3326 - with [accompanied-with]" in some texts,
"angels" are never spoken of using the "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] [Him]" word, see.
[the "G4862 [UNIONed-with] [Him]" word is also used in 1Th4:14 (a verse I find is often misunderstood), and in the well-known ['rapture'] verse 1Thess4:17 "so shall WE ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord."
What I'm pointing out about those various texts AT TOP (which the argument goes, always refers to "angels" [as the "holy-ones [G40]"]), is that those instances NEVER use this "G4862 - WITH" word, as IS used regarding US]
____________
All of that ^ is beside the point that Colossians 3:4 also uses the word " *YE / YOU" (the persons being addressed; which I'm saying is [the corporate] "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and not merely the Colossians-church of the first century alone... if that makes sense.
)[ * YE / YOU - "G4771 - hymeis " according to BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/3-4.htm ; or "G5210 - hymeis " according to BlueLetterBible - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/col/3/4/ss1/t_conc_1110004 -- either way, it *means* the same thing: "YOU"
(not referring to "angels [G32 (or even the less-specific "G40 [holy-ones]")]" here in this verse... no, the word is "YOU" =) )]Hope that helps you see my perspective.
Yes, I'm familiar with the argument that I believe you are referring to (referenced BRIEFLY above, in my post here); but I don't see it holding up, considering the actual text of Col3:4 and its wording.
The question I'm asking you to address pertains to verse 2:
Select the EASIEST translation you wish, and explain WHAT that false claim is ABOUT that Paul is writing to the Thessalonians about... cautioning them about (in verse 2):
https://biblehub.com/parallel/2_thessalonians/2-2.htm [something like 40-50 VERSIONS of this verse are LISTED here at this LINK]...
...one example is the Amplified version, which says,
Amplified Bible
not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come.
[pick ANY version you feel you can understand the easiest, and then let us know WHAT the underlined portion ^ *MEANS*--what was / is the "alleged claim" SAYING?]
Select the EASIEST translation you wish, and explain WHAT that false claim is ABOUT that Paul is writing to the Thessalonians about... cautioning them about (in verse 2):
https://biblehub.com/parallel/2_thessalonians/2-2.htm [something like 40-50 VERSIONS of this verse are LISTED here at this LINK]...
...one example is the Amplified version, which says,
Amplified Bible
not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come.
[pick ANY version you feel you can understand the easiest, and then let us know WHAT the underlined portion ^ *MEANS*--what was / is the "alleged claim" SAYING?]
It's not ringing a bell, but if I think of the name, I'll post it. Another member may have mentioned this scholar.
^ And may I just add to my Post #185, (to point out) verse 15 of this text states,
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions [/instructions / transmission] which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (IOW, Paul is saying, believe what WE taught you [v.15]... do not believe [or be deceived by] the false claimants with their false claim [v.2])
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions [/instructions / transmission] which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (IOW, Paul is saying, believe what WE taught you [v.15]... do not believe [or be deceived by] the false claimants with their false claim [v.2])
Yes, I am familiar with the argument... which would be a fair argument except for the verse I'd pointed out.
Allow me to explain the issue briefly, as I understand it...
CONSIDER:
--the argument (which has SOME validity) goes something like this:
"[comes...and] holy [G40 - holy ones - PL] with [G3326 - accompanied-with] him [G846]" - Zech14:5LXX
...seems to correspond with...
... all of these (the argument goes) that the "G40" (holy ones) that are coming with Him are "angels" (because some of these texts actually state so... by also including the word "angels [G32]" which makes that abundantly clear in those texts).
I would point out (in these texts) that the "with" word is always either "G3326 [accompanied-with]" or "G1722 [in/accompaniment]".
My point being, in places wherever it is speaking of "angels" coming with Him (or even, also coming) it NEVER uses the "G4862 [UNIONed-with]" word that we see used in Colossians 3:4 I'd pointed out ('then shall YE also appear [G5319] WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him in glory");
And while it is true that we can (be spoken of as) [be] "G3326 - with [accompanied-with]" in some texts,
"angels" are never spoken of using the "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] [Him]" word, see.
[the "G4862 [UNIONed-with] [Him]" word is also used in 1Th4:14 (a verse I find is often misunderstood), and in the well-known ['rapture'] verse 1Thess4:17 "so shall WE ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord."
What I'm pointing out about those various texts AT TOP (which the argument goes, always refers to "angels" [as the "holy-ones [G40]"]), is that those instances NEVER use this "G4862 - WITH" word, as IS used regarding US]
____________
All of that ^ is beside the point that Colossians 3:4 also uses the word " *YE / YOU" (the persons being addressed; which I'm saying is [the corporate] "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and not merely the Colossians-church of the first century alone... if that makes sense. )
[ * YE / YOU - "G4771 - hymeis " according to BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/3-4.htm ; or "G5210 - hymeis " according to BlueLetterBible - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/col/3/4/ss1/t_conc_1110004 -- either way, it *means* the same thing: "YOU" (not referring to "angels [G32 (or even the less-specific "G40 [holy-ones]")]" here in this verse... no, the word is "YOU" =) )]
Hope that helps you see my perspective.
Yes, I'm familiar with the argument that I believe you are referring to (referenced BRIEFLY above, in my post here); but I don't see it holding up, considering the actual text of Col3:4 and its wording.
Allow me to explain the issue briefly, as I understand it...
CONSIDER:
--the argument (which has SOME validity) goes something like this:
"[comes...and] holy [G40 - holy ones - PL] with [G3326 - accompanied-with] him [G846]" - Zech14:5LXX
...seems to correspond with...
- "holy [G40] angels [G32] with [G3326 - accompanied-with] him [G846]" - Matt25:31... and
- "with [G3326 - accompanied-with] the holy [G40] angels [G32]" - Mk8:38, and Mt16:27 [/Lk9:26]... and
- "[cometh] in [G1722 - in/accompaniment] ten thousands of his [G846] holy-ones [G40]" - Jude 1:14
... all of these (the argument goes) that the "G40" (holy ones) that are coming with Him are "angels" (because some of these texts actually state so... by also including the word "angels [G32]" which makes that abundantly clear in those texts).
I would point out (in these texts) that the "with" word is always either "G3326 [accompanied-with]" or "G1722 [in/accompaniment]".
My point being, in places wherever it is speaking of "angels" coming with Him (or even, also coming) it NEVER uses the "G4862 [UNIONed-with]" word that we see used in Colossians 3:4 I'd pointed out ('then shall YE also appear [G5319] WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him in glory");
And while it is true that we can (be spoken of as) [be] "G3326 - with [accompanied-with]" in some texts,
"angels" are never spoken of using the "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] [Him]" word, see.
[the "G4862 [UNIONed-with] [Him]" word is also used in 1Th4:14 (a verse I find is often misunderstood), and in the well-known ['rapture'] verse 1Thess4:17 "so shall WE ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord."
What I'm pointing out about those various texts AT TOP (which the argument goes, always refers to "angels" [as the "holy-ones [G40]"]), is that those instances NEVER use this "G4862 - WITH" word, as IS used regarding US]
____________
All of that ^ is beside the point that Colossians 3:4 also uses the word " *YE / YOU" (the persons being addressed; which I'm saying is [the corporate] "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and not merely the Colossians-church of the first century alone... if that makes sense.
)[ * YE / YOU - "G4771 - hymeis " according to BibleHub - https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/3-4.htm ; or "G5210 - hymeis " according to BlueLetterBible - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/col/3/4/ss1/t_conc_1110004 -- either way, it *means* the same thing: "YOU"
(not referring to "angels [G32 (or even the less-specific "G40 [holy-ones]")]" here in this verse... no, the word is "YOU" =) )]Hope that helps you see my perspective.
Yes, I'm familiar with the argument that I believe you are referring to (referenced BRIEFLY above, in my post here); but I don't see it holding up, considering the actual text of Col3:4 and its wording.
While I can kinda understand your point, I don't think it really pinpoints what the text itself actually states in this Colossians 3:4 verse.
There was no reason for Paul to use the word "YE / YOU" (in this verse) if he'd meant some other [entity, or whatever].
[... and the fact that, in all of these similar-sounding [similarly-phrased] verses I'd listed out, it is only the "G3326 - ACCOMPANIED-with" word that is used when referring to the "angels"... never the "G4862 - UNIONed-with" word (though both are translated "with" in English--so not readily discernible upon first blush, or even a cursory reading)]
Just something to ponder...
There was no reason for Paul to use the word "YE / YOU" (in this verse) if he'd meant some other [entity, or whatever].
[... and the fact that, in all of these similar-sounding [similarly-phrased] verses I'd listed out, it is only the "G3326 - ACCOMPANIED-with" word that is used when referring to the "angels"... never the "G4862 - UNIONed-with" word (though both are translated "with" in English--so not readily discernible upon first blush, or even a cursory reading)]
Just something to ponder...