The Gospels and the Mystery

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Sep 2, 2020
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You seem very confused on this matter and unable to rightly divide the word of truth. Water Baptism is not indeed a part of the gospel and you keep reverberating a false notion of what I believe. Water Baptism is a work. What Luke wrote in Acts 2 is that the 3,000 souls who “have gladly received his words were “baptized” v. 41 and who are they who have received his words? These are they who have believed “And all that believed …”

Now, these people who received or believed the word, are the same who have earlier stated as they repented. These are the people who have changed their minds about the Saviour.

Did Peter preach the same as Paul did? Yes! V23 speaks of his death “Him being delivered…have crucified and slain.” And his death and resurrection were stated in v24 “Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death…” This is what the 3000 repented at and believed or received so that, right after they were saved of the gospel they “were baptized”.

Hoping this help solve your mystery!
“Water Baptism is not indeed a part of the gospel “

Jesus commanded them to do this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

i guess Phillip didn’t understand

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.

And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And Peter also didn’t get the memo

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬


were Philip and Peter not understanding water isnt needed for baptism ?

the terrible thing about hyper grace is anything God teaches us to do or not do …..becomes a “ work of the law “ so we’re never able to actually accept the things he tells us will save us
 
Jan 13, 2016
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Has the end of the world come already ?

Naw .

has the gospel been preached to all creatures ? No there are creatures born daily they are part of the still existing world ….and need to hear the gospel also
That's not what the verse states. With your logic, it would be impossible to preach the gospel unto all the world, because there are always people being born into the world.

Bottom line, in Paul's day, what he stated was the truth. Paul was not lying. All the world, all creatures under heaven, to all nations...
 
Sep 2, 2020
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That's not what the verse states. With your logic, it would be impossible to preach the gospel unto all the world, because there are always people being born into the world.

Bottom line, in Paul's day, what he stated was the truth. Paul was not lying. All the world, all creatures under heaven, to all nations...
“With your logic, it would be impossible to preach the gospel unto all the world, because there are always people being born into the world.”

hahaha until it actually ends then no more creatures being born ……

the gospel will be preached until Jesus returns from heaven to gether everyone for judgement but that’s just another thing from the Bible that Jesus taught …..what does he know right lol
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

This was not always the case. For proof of this:

Matthew 15:22-28
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Gentiles were dogs because:

Ephesians 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

So, the idea that it's only one and the same Gospel throughout, that ignores what anyone can read in scripture, and is shown here and in the OP.

MM
Most folk cannot accept that Jesus was only sent to the Jews.

How are they going to read and understand that the letters were addressed to different
audiences?

I don't think the church ever read the scripture properly.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
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You seem very confused on this matter and unable to rightly divide the word of truth. Water Baptism is not indeed a part of the gospel and you keep reverberating a false notion of what I believe. Water Baptism is a work. What Luke wrote in Acts 2 is that the 3,000 souls who “have gladly received his words were “baptized” v. 41 and who are they who have received his words? These are they who have believed “And all that believed …”

Now, these people who received or believed the word, are the same who have earlier stated as they repented. These are the people who have changed their minds about the Saviour.

Did Peter preach the same as Paul did? Yes! V23 speaks of his death “Him being delivered…have crucified and slain.” And his death and resurrection were stated in v24 “Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death…” This is what the 3000 repented at and believed or received so that, right after they were saved of the gospel they “were baptized”.

Hoping this help solve your mystery!
In Acts 2, Peter clearly outlines the Kingdom Gospel, which includes water baptism for the remission of sins, there are those who believe that it is therefore an item necessary for today. Whether you believe that or not, I was simply stating that there are those who believe that there is only one gospel throughout, which is false. To say that Peter was not speaking the Kingdom Gospel with water baptism as a key element, that is utterly false. It's right there for anyone to read.

That narrative of Peter's speech to the Israelites, that was a recount of the fact that they had crucified the Messiah. One cannot escape what is clearly stated by that same Peter in that same chapter:

Acts 2:37-39
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?

The message of Christ's crucifixion is nowhere in that narrative mentioned that faith in that alone as the means unto salvation.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

So, I am not the one who is confused. The confusion is in the claim from others who say that it's all one gospel throughout. I don't have to be baptized for remission of sins, where Peter said that THEY did. No confusion in that at all, in that Peter preached a Gospel that was indeed true for them at that time, but not for us today.

MM
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,105
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Most folk cannot accept that Jesus was only sent to the Jews.

How are they going to read and understand that the letters were addressed to different
audiences?

I don't think the church ever read the scripture properly.
Good questions. Simply stated, Paul made it simple enough to rightly divide, in that he was the apostle to the Gentiles and to the uncircumcized Jews (spiritually speaking, not physically).

So, they can settle upon Romans to Philemon being what applies to us today, with all the rest being written to those who were and will by under the Kingdom Gospel.

Many religious institutions people call their "church" do indeed fail to rightly divide the word of truth, and thus confuse their followers by teaching an amalgamation of dispensations, especially when they preach the devil's own doctrines of replacement theology, which has roots of corruption that run deep into so many other of the teachings of evangelicalism and other religions throughout the world, such as that in Rome.

Given tat we are saved ONLY by grace through faith, there is nothing any one of us can add to that. Nobody, if asked by the Lord, "Why should I let you into my Heaven," will be able to say, "Well, I had faith and I was baptized, and I tithed faithfully and sent money to a missions organization and I mowed my crippled neighbor's lawn and I..."

Unmerited favor means that there is nothing we can possibly add to what was given to us without ANY merit on our part, but those who claim it's all one gospel throughout, they create unnecessary confusions, believing that their works somehow add to what could never be earned through any merit. That is sophism. It's such an irrational and entirely incoherent system of belief, but it's taught as if it were biblical by many out there who know not the word of God through rightly dividing it.

MM
 
Sep 2, 2020
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Not just we, but they too. There is no difference

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:11
[/QUOTE

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Sep 2, 2020
13,950
5,660
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Most folk cannot accept that Jesus was only sent to the Jews.

How are they going to read and understand that the letters were addressed to different
audiences?

I don't think the church ever read the scripture properly.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Good questions. Simply stated, Paul made it simple enough to rightly divide, in that he was the apostle to the Gentiles and to the uncircumcized Jews (spiritually speaking, not physically).

So, they can settle upon Romans to Philemon being what applies to us today, with all the rest being written to those who were and will by under the Kingdom Gospel.

Many religious institutions people call their "church" do indeed fail to rightly divide the word of truth, and thus confuse their followers by teaching an amalgamation of dispensations, especially when they preach the devil's own doctrines of replacement theology, which has roots of corruption that run deep into so many other of the teachings of evangelicalism and other religions throughout the world, such as that in Rome.

Given tat we are saved ONLY by grace through faith, there is nothing any one of us can add to that. Nobody, if asked by the Lord, "Why should I let you into my Heaven," will be able to say, "Well, I had faith and I was baptized, and I tithed faithfully and sent money to a missions organization and I mowed my crippled neighbor's lawn and I..."

Unmerited favor means that there is nothing we can possibly add to what was given to us without ANY merit on our part, but those who claim it's all one gospel throughout, they create unnecessary confusions, believing that their works somehow add to what could never be earned through any merit. That is sophism. It's such an irrational and entirely incoherent system of belief, but it's taught as if it were biblical by many out there who know not the word of God through rightly dividing it.

MM
“with all the rest being written to those who were and will by under the Kingdom Gospel.”

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭

“But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭6:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Nov 1, 2024
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Most folk cannot accept that Jesus was only sent to the Jews.
How are they going to read and understand that the letters were addressed to different
audiences?
Initially, yes. Jesus' earthly mission was indeed to Israel only, but when the time was fulfilled Peter was sent first to the nations, and then others were sent afterwards.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Initially, yes. Jesus' earthly mission was indeed to Israel only, but when the time was fulfilled Peter was sent first to the nations, and then others were sent afterwards.
Yes, as Jesus said in JN 10:16, "I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them in also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
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Matthew 24 and the end of the world

The context is about the perilous times speaking of the Israelite people before the millennial kingdom of Christ. Jesus spoke of the world ending when this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached all over the world.

The question is, does the word “world” mean in every place, or part of the world, such as in Australia, America, etc? I would say Yes! That this “gospel of the kingdom should be preached, and then shall the end come”

Now notice v.15 spoke about the desolation spoken by Daniel which is to say the Gentile rule and shifted the focus from the area to time “When ye, therefore shall see… v.19 says bearing child “in those days”, the winter flight and the Sabbath day v.21, the elect days will be shortened v.22.

Specifically, it states that in v.21, this great tribulation had never occurred since the beginning of the Gentile world which speaks of the abomination of desolation spoken by Prophet Daniel.

So, what in the word that speaks of the "world to end" is all about the ending of the Gentile rule.

Be blessed everyone!
One other thing I will also mention is that faith has always been the foundational element of every dispensation throughout history going all the way back to Adam. The Lord desires faith rather than just actions, as any supervisor would want from his workers, in that if they don't believe in the mission, they aren't much good for anything else. So, when Peter spoke of the crucifixion of Christ of Christ in order to drive home the fact that the Jews had killed their Messiah, it could only cut them to the heart if they believed what Peter had told them. THAT is what drove them to then ask what they must do as a result, to which Peter responded with the requirement to DO something, which was water baptism FOR the remission of sins. Remission of sins, I'm sure we can both agree, must take place in order for one to be saved. That is then the point for the filling of Holy Spirit as a reality and evidence for salvation.

Had they called Peter a liar, they would not have become water baptized by faith. Given that the Law was still in force at that time, and will become in force after the rapture and thus the ending of the dispensation of grace, evidenced in their having to ENDURE unto the end, as Jesus emphatically stated because they will not be sealed by Holy Spirit in that time, their salvation will become a reality after a demonstration for endurance. That is not what we are under today given that we today are sealed by Holy Spirit unto salvation at the point of faith in the death, burial and resurrection on the third day of Christ Jesus, the first born of all creation.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard [it], they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

The Greek word translated "zealous," according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, has this meaning:

"b. to defend and uphold a thing, vehemently contending for a thing (zealous for): νόμου, Acts 21:20"

In other words, they were not just sitting around speaking good things about the Law of Moses, they were upholding it. I'm reiterating this because the Kingdom Gospel folks were still upholding the Law of Moses, and we today do NOT uphold the Law of Moses. This isn't about just saying good things about it, as some have suggested, generally speaking, but they were upholding the Law just as they were upholding faith in Messiah.

So, the singular gospel gang has a serious problem on their hands. Will they go back to upholding the Law contrary to scripture written to us, or will they become Hebrew Roots followers and uphold a massive falsehood for us today? Some out there try to straddle that fence in spite of the deadly spikes along its top, claiming that one can live in both realms of doctrine without creating horrid inconsistencies in their gospel preaching to the unsaved.

What so many fail to understand is the difference between, God meeting out His grace upon various individuals and nations with healing and situational intervention, and the basis of salvation offered to ALL rooted in grace through faith alone, indepenedant of works. They are not one and the same, but the massively confused continue to vomit their inconsistencies as if they knew what they were talking about contrary to what's written. That's not pride, it's accepting scripture for what it says resulting from systematic analysis.

MM
 
Nov 1, 2024
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One other thing I will also mention is that faith has always been the foundational element of every dispensation throughout history going all the way back to Adam. The Lord desires faith rather than just actions, as any supervisor would want from his workers, in that if they don't believe in the mission, they aren't much good for anything else. So, when Peter spoke of the crucifixion of Christ of Christ in order to drive home the fact that the Jews had killed their Messiah, it could only cut them to the heart if they believed what Peter had told them. THAT is what drove them to then ask what they must do as a result, to which Peter responded with the requirement to DO something, which was water baptism FOR the remission of sins. Remission of sins, I'm sure we can both agree, must take place in order for one to be saved. That is then the point for the filling of Holy Spirit as a reality and evidence for salvation.

Had they called Peter a liar, they would not have become water baptized by faith. Given that the Law was still in force at that time, and will become in force after the rapture and thus the ending of the dispensation of grace, evidenced in their having to ENDURE unto the end, as Jesus emphatically stated because they will not be sealed by Holy Spirit in that time, their salvation will become a reality after a demonstration for endurance. That is not what we are under today given that we today are sealed by Holy Spirit unto salvation at the point of faith in the death, burial and resurrection on the third day of Christ Jesus, the first born of all creation.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard [it], they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

The Greek word translated "zealous," according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, has this meaning:

"b. to defend and uphold a thing, vehemently contending for a thing (zealous for): νόμου, Acts 21:20"

In other words, they were not just sitting around speaking good things about the Law of Moses, they were upholding it. I'm reiterating this because the Kingdom Gospel folks were still upholding the Law of Moses, and we today do NOT uphold the Law of Moses. This isn't about just saying good things about it, as some have suggested, generally speaking, but they were upholding the Law just as they were upholding faith in Messiah.

So, the singular gospel gang has a serious problem on their hands. Will they go back to upholding the Law contrary to scripture written to us, or will they become Hebrew Roots followers and uphold a massive falsehood for us today? Some out there try to straddle that fence in spite of the deadly spikes along its top, claiming that one can live in both realms of doctrine without creating horrid inconsistencies in their gospel preaching to the unsaved.

What so many fail to understand is the difference between, God meeting out His grace upon various individuals and nations with healing and situational intervention, and the basis of salvation offered to ALL rooted in grace through faith alone, indepenedant of works. They are not one and the same, but the massively confused continue to vomit their inconsistencies as if they knew what they were talking about contrary to what's written. That's not pride, it's accepting scripture for what it says resulting from systematic analysis.

MM
Peter said the law was an unbearable yoke for Israel, so it doesn't matter if Jews in Jerusalem were zealous for the law. That was their choice because that was what they were acculturated to. It was by no means a requirement of the gospel.

btw the gospel of the kingdom pertains to the kingdom of God/heaven into which gentiles became citizens via faith, just as the Jews were. There is no difference

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:10-11